URGENT HELP ABNORMAL FOAL WITH VIDEO & PICS???

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lisa_dundee

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Had a stunning massive coloured filly born a week ago with severely contracted hind tendons, the back fetlock was totally knuckled over backwards, we had to hold her up for feeds 24/7, but as she got stronger she was trying to get herself up and when she managed she was bunny hopping round the stable on her joint so we bandaged her feet up tight and straight so she couldn't keep falling on to the joint knuckles and after leaving the bandages on for one day and one night, she can now get her self up for feeds and her feet are the right way round (she is stood on her hooves), however the problem is she move her hind legs independently, the legs stay together and she bunny hops. The vets main concern is her other problem that she can not move her tail at all or lift it to wee and poo, she is basically incontinent and wees and poos on herself when she lays down. She has made so much progress in a week however the vet feels it is neurological and spinal damage and to give her a week and if the is not major improvement to put her to sleep. Has anyone else experienced anything like this please? Feedback welcome good or bad??


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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPFRslHrlxM&feature=youtube_gdata_player
 
In the video, when the mare put the foal in the coener by the gate, I'd swear that the back legs moved independantly or am I seeing things?

That is a stunning little foal who looks healthy, happy and full of beans otherwise. I'd give it a chance as she deserves it and it's amazing what nature and time can do for the newborn. Some physio might help?

Good Luck with her:)
 
What a lovely foal and impressed how well she can move/get some speed up with those bunny hops.:)

Personally I would give your filly a chance as she looks a fighter... however, she cannot go through life unable to lift her tail/poo/wee or move back legs independently.

I hope that something can be done for her to stimulate the nerves back in to doing what they are meant to be doing. I am presuming that the damage has been caused by compression with the foal being so large or is there something else going on that the vets are worried about?

I hope all turns out well in the end and like that other thread, there is a lovely three year old post in few years time.
 
Elsbells said:
In the video, when the mare put the foal in the coener by the gate, I'd swear that the back legs moved independantly or am I seeing things?

That is a stunning little foal who looks healthy, happy and full of beans otherwise. I'd give it a chance as she deserves it and it's amazing what nature and time can do for the newborn. Some physio might help?

Good Luck with her:)
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Yes we were sure she did two scissor motions, my physio Joelle sadly agrees with the vet but we have another guy coming every day who is a spiritual healer and a human physio and also have an equine touch lady who does natural remedies and they are both coming daily and spending hours with her doing whatever they can, we have even had Ann Dee the horse whisperer talk to her
 
I'm sure I saw her stumble and use her hind legs slightly apart to steady herself.

Maybe the way she is hopping is because thats currently the only way she knows how to move and is comfortable that way.

She looks a strong girl and I'd give her every chance, even going to a referral specialist vet before I took the last choice.
 
No help either but what an adorable foal.

I found this article
http://mccallshorseworld.com/cms/content/view/132/94/ and it refers to a hopping gait half way down.

and this about contracted tendons (bit gory)
http://www.fveter.unr.edu.ar/Objetos/flexular.pdf

and this
http://www.ruralheritage.com/messageboard/virtualvet/380.htm

then this snip - I have no experience of this and it could be completely off on a tangent but selenium does keep cropping up.

Severe selenium deficiencies, which are characterized by weakness, impaired movement, difficulty in swalling, impaired cardiac function, and respiratory distress. Selenium deficiencies have also been implicated in certain types of "tying up" in perfomance horses. Yound foals, from birth to about four weeks of age, are most likely to demonstrate clinical symptoms(which occur as a result of inadequate selenium intake by the dam during pregnancy).
They might develop muscle pain, an inability to nurse, and a stilted hopping gait in the rear legs, or be stillborn or die within days of birth. In areas where selenium deficiency is a documented problem in foals, the dam should recieve supplementation throughout her pregnancy, and the foal given a vitamin E-and selenium injection just after birth.
Selenium is a tricky mineral, for several reasons. First, unlike most minerals which have a broad safety range, selenium has a very low threshold of toxicity for horses-only a few parts per million(ppm) beyond the recommended levels. Most other livestock species have a much higher tolorance, partly because their absorption rates are lower than horses.
 
We had a mare foal with us a few years ago and the foal had no anal sphincter so had no control over himself and initially poo'd on himself while lying down.
His owners decided to let him take his chance and give him time.
As his poo got harder it wasnt such an issue but he also had the same if not quite as bad bunny hopping movement.
He was given till he was a yearling but was eventually pts as it was obvious it wasnt going to change any.
This one could sort of walk but hopped at trot and canter but it wasnt as bad as the one on the video.
Although he coped just fine ,he did have prolonged box rest because his legs were very wonky but the odd gait never really changed in its severity.
The general consensus with the one we had was that there was something not put together right inside and he had this odd muscle on his rump which we think was the anal sphincter as if you pressed it he lifted his tail.
 
No advice i'm afraid but wanted to say what a really beautiful foal you have.

I hope that she improves, keeping everything crossed for you. x
 
Ditto everyone else - beautiful, fiesty foal and I hope you soon see an improvement. I hope it's just because she was squashed in the uterus and finds her co-ordination
 
sallyf said:
We had a mare foal with us a few years ago and the foal had no anal sphincter so had no control over himself and initially poo'd on himself while lying down.
His owners decided to let him take his chance and give him time.
As his poo got harder it wasnt such an issue but he also had the same if not quite as bad bunny hopping movement.
He was given till he was a yearling but was eventually pts as it was obvious it wasnt going to change any.
This one could sort of walk but hopped at trot and canter but it wasnt as bad as the one on the video.
Although he coped just fine ,he did have prolonged box rest because his legs were very wonky but the odd gait never really changed in its severity.
The general consensus with the one we had was that there was something not put together right inside and he had this odd muscle on his rump which we think was the anal sphincter as if you pressed it he lifted his tail.
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Thankyou for your reply, we wouldnt keep her going as long as that but rather than give her the week the vet has recommended we were thinking more 2-3 weeks. Your the only person I have had feedback from who's foal had symptoms more or less the same as ours, such a shame it wasnt a better outcome.
 
lisa_dundee said:
Thankyou for your reply, we wouldnt keep her going as long as that but rather than give her the week the vet has recommended we were thinking more 2-3 weeks. Your the only person I have had feedback from who's foal had symptoms more or less the same as ours, such a shame it wasnt a better outcome.
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No problem ,i hope she improves for you as she looks a lovely foal.
I think you are sensible to give her a bit longer just because for your own sake you have to be happy with the decision.
Good luck
 
Sorry I can offer no advice. It doesn't look good - the foal only moves one back leg independantly when she is side swiped by the mare, never through choice.

I hope she comes good. I agree with you to give her a few weeks. You are clearly trying every avenue - well done for being so open minded - I would be inclined to do that anyway (give the foal a few weeks or moinths)as long as the foal is not actually suffering whatever the outcome just to be fairer on the mare. To lose her foal a week in would be devastating. They are both gorgeous.
 
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Maybe try tellington touch? Give her a decent amount of time as she's so bonny in every other way. Keep us updated x
 
We had one with a slightly contracted tendon behind vet gave her Oxytet which relaxes the tendons within 24 hrs of being born and again at 48 hours and within four days she was walking properly - dont know if this can be done after a week or so? Cracking looking foal - hope she comes right.
 
I don't think you should turn out at the moment,it's not doing the foal any good running around like that. Restricted exercise and standing for some time on a hard surface should help. I know it's hard keeping them in but I think the foal needs to get stronger. You could walk the mare in hand so that the foal isn't being run off its legs.
 
I had one that was even MORE 'down' behind - she couldn't stand at all for 4 days without assistance and had incredible trouble drinking as her hocks were on the ground and her head was too high. Vet wanted her PTS at 3 weeks! No WAY! She improved VERY slowly - with NO treatment. We kept her on box rest for 10 days and then a small paddock by day - close to the yard.

She's now a 2 year old and will go for grading later this year - no-one could spot the problem she had because it's GONE! LOOK at her closely once a week and take photos - don't really LOOK in-between! If the week by week photos show even a slight improvement, hang on in there!
 
BBH said:
I'm sure I saw her stumble and use her hind legs slightly apart to steady herself.

Maybe the way she is hopping is because thats currently the only way she knows how to move and is comfortable that way.

She looks a strong girl and I'd give her every chance, even going to a referral specialist vet before I took the last choice.
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your right she did . I wonder if an equine water treadmill would help .

lovely foal i hope she improves as she gets older.
my gelding was down on his back feet and very cow hocked almost walking down on his fetlocks.. I was told to restrict his turnout till he got stronger.
 
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Firstly, I am so sorry the your foaling experience has not been a straightforward occasion.

I would love to be optimistic and be able to give you hope but I doesn't look all that hopeful.

Watching her move on your video there does not appear to be true flexion and extension of her hocks and thus her stifles. The movement appears to originate from her hips and back as opposed to lower down the limbs. Although the fetlocks appear to flex I imagine this is passive, due to the compression, as opposed to actual movement.

I also would have been inclined to administer a high dose of oxytet to her during the first few days to help the contracted tendons but feel that this is probably not worth the potential side effects at this stage. The tendons appear to be correctly aligned now anyway.

The fact that you have bunny hopping movement, movement that appears to originate from higher up the limb than lower, no independent movement of tail, ? inability to control motions of bladder and bowel certainly would indicate a potential spinal involvement.

Obviously foals are always difficult to assess but specialist hospitals are specialist because they deal with problems on a day to day basis. I would seek advice from them for further assessment sooner rather than later.

Also, normally it wouldn't be advised but it may be worth considering the effects of a one off high dose steriod as a last resort before you opt to PTS. Sometimes it is enough if it is inflammatory based to resolve the issue. However, as is often the case in foals conditions seen early on especially from birth tend to be congenital and thus more complex. You may find abnormal development or compression of spinal nerves are the root of your problem and thus unfortunately there is nothing that can be done.

I truly hope that your situation resolves and wish your beautiful foal all the luck, please keep us posted how she gets on.
 
I've seen the video and I don't think the prognosis is good, not because of the 'bunny hopping', but I'm more worried about the incontinence and lack of controlled tail movement. To me, that means some sort of spinal injury or lack of development. Thinking along the lines of the pelvis is somehow fused together abnormally? Have you had her x-rayed or scanned? I'm no expert, but it doesn't strike me as neurological.
This said, have hope and allow some more time. The filly doesn't look in pain or anything, so I'd carry on as is, with restricted turnout for 3 x 10 mins each day. More for the mares benefit really. Overall, give them another few weeks and re-think after that if any progress has been made.

On another note, I know your mare. I think she is very smart and was so tempted to buy her when she was for sale a few years ago!

All the very best of luck.
 
Thanks for your replies, she has not had a scan as she would need an MRI scan for accurate prognosis and we just can't afford it, at the minute everything is the same, as I am trying literally everything I have orders some holograph tabs for her (probably useless) and we are using magnetic boots and a tens machine. She is by my section D stallion who was only 14.1hh, I regretably sold him to germany a few month ago when I found out I was pregnant
 
it sounds as if you are doing as much as you can for her. i have the holograph tabs on 2 of mine too... worth a try! Ann Dee is excellent, I'd love to hear what she said, by pm if you like.
when the foal's lying down, will she let you move her hindlegs, will they move independently if not weight-bearing? can you give her gentle massage?
i really hope this has a good outcome for all of you.
 
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