URGENT HELP!!! GET MY PUPPY HOME

[AmyMay]

Really interesting getting the vets point of view. Thanks to those of you who have responded.

 

[meleeka]

I think it's worth saying that this isn't always veterinary employees taking ownership/it is often short term/they have contacts/they know which charities they work with and whether they might agree to take it on inc. funding care. Otherwise it can sound a bit like vets/nurses are just doing it to acquire pets.

That is what I think it sounds like, although i’m sure it isn’t actually the case.

I’m not sure it’s fair to keep putting the burden on rescues, especially if it happens fairly often as was suggested by a vet upthread.

I have a friend that ‘can’t afford’ expensive vet treatment. In reality it means her animals aren’t important enough to make sacrifices and have savings/pay for insurance for.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I find it very interesting that OP hasn't come back to the thread recently. I think we can all rest assured that although similar situations do arise fairly frequently in several vet practices that HHO'ers know about, no dogs were actually harmed in the writing of this story.

 

[Landcruiser]

But it's no different from what happens now. At the end of 7 days either the adopter pays or the owner does.
.

It really isn't that simple. Here's a recent case from our vet practice.
Whelping bitch brought in one evening as emergency, in terrible underweight condition, on point of death. Never seen the client before. Two live but very weak pups and obviously more to come. Owner couldn't pay for any treatment and was given sad option to euthenize, because an emergency (out of hours) caesarian was clearly needed. Other option given- sign over and we would do what we could. Owner signed over. Caesarean resulted in several (long) dead pups, bitch on life support, rallied after a few days, recovered and able to part feed surviving pups. One pup died after 2 weeks of 24 hour care, one survived. Both surviving dogs looked after by relay team of vets and nurses, taking them home over night and giving their time freely, surviving pup eventually adopted at 8 weeks by staff member, bitch adopted at this point by friend of another staff member.
Now, where in that scenario would you put the option for the original owner to pay the bill and reclaim the dog/s? Because If that option is there after 7 days for one owner surely it should be there for all.
There have to be procedures in place for these situations. We always offer the services of a 3rd party credit agency, but we absolutely can't treat animals for nothing, potentially running up massive bills that people walk away from, causing huge admin costs, hassle, and losses to the business. No vet, ever, went into practice because they wanted to kill animals, or steal animals from owners. Every vet I know cares deeply about the welfare of the animals, and that is at the absolute front of whatever they do. Our clinical team bent over backwards to help this particular little dog, and we've been round this block many many times. Many of us have taken on pets this way, not because we were looking for another pet (or the resultant ongoing costs) but because we cared about the animal's welfare. None of us have taken them on lightly or without much soul searching and consideration

 

[DabDab]

I think that's the crux of the thing though - there should be protocols and procedures for how to deal with situations like this, agreed across the profession. These situations are not uncommon and it is a key ethical issue, the principles of which are pretty central to the practice of veterinary medicine. And yet it seems to be left up to individual practices to make decisions on a case by case basis.

The current situation seems desperately unfair for vets who are at the pointy end of making these decisions, and likely to cause all sorts of odd/stressful/legally ambiguous situations between the practice & the customer.

I don't have much sympathy for the OP tbh, because from what they've written here they appear to be protecting their financial position in preference to paying for the puppy's medical care. However, I do think the vet practice has inadvertently created a bit of a confusing pickle of a situation - dealing with the owner over the phone, offering to let them pay the bill and take the puppy back afterall, implying that a payment plan would be possible if it wasn't their Dad's £500. All of that could just be the OPs interpretation of course, but that's the point of a governing body-led set of protocols

 

[Birker2020]

I have done this with my last 2 horses. Started the insurance as soon as I paid the deposit (as soon as I had a financial interest in the horse), before vetting even. The insurance company knew and were in agreement. One failed the vet, you have 14 days to cancel the insurance, I did.

With the others, one week of the part where you are only insured for external injury had already passed before they came home. Not fraud when you explain that is what you are doing, just minimises your risk.

Thanks, never knew this was even an option, I too hate this 14 day wait. This is when problems will manifest.

 

[Birker2020]

I find it very interesting that OP hasn't come back to the thread recently. I think we can all rest assured that although similar situations do arise fairly frequently in several vet practices that HHO'ers know about, no dogs were actually harmed in the writing of this story.

She probably felt, as others had pointed out, that she was being unfairly jumped on and had the common sense to get out when she did instead of trying to justify her actions which she probably also felt she wanted to do to show she wasn't the type of person she was made out to be.

 

[Clodagh]

Thanks, never knew this was even an option, I too hate this 14 day wait. This is when problems will manifest.

If you buy a well bred pup from a decent breeder it will come with insurance which then you proceed with or it covers you for the 2 week period.
It is the cash merchants that don’t bother with this that cause a problem.
Also a decent breeder is far less likely to sell a pup with an underlying or serious health issue.

 

[SOS]

Vet practices are seen as unfair for not offering payment plans/needing payment upfront but I have been there doing debting for practices and it is normally an eye watering amount. Some of the vile comments and attitudes I have been on the receiving end of after asking someone to pay a bill, for treatment that saved their pets life, is astonishing.

Unfortunately you do lose compassion over time in practice. You hear the sob stories over and over again about the bill being too expensive, then see the owner turn up with a new Merle bulldog or brand new range rover. I won’t even go into some of the situations I saw in a PDSA service that have made me unfortunately lose trust in the charity as it’s system is taken advantage of everyday.

One of the reasons I have stepped into behind the scenes of clinical practice is I have lost tolerance for the suffering to animals on a daily basis by their so called beloved owners, from obesity, lack of preventative care/vaccination, prolonged pain due to financial concerns, the list goes on.

Pets are a privilege not a right and should be seen as a luxury. If you cannot afford their ongoing care do not get one.

 

[ycbm]

Vet practices are seen as unfair for not offering payment plans/needing payment upfront but I have been there doing debting for practices and it is normally an eye watering amount. Some of the vile comments and attitudes I have been on the receiving end of after asking someone to pay a bill, for treatment that saved their pets life, is astonishing

This is so wrong. I don't know what the solution is. Is there one?
.

 

[SOS]

This is so wrong. I don't know what the solution is. Is there one?
.

To me the solution is to enforce the message that pets are not an initial cost and that’s it and that their lifelong (10,15,20 years) care is the owners responsibility. It sounds silly to responsible owners but never over estimate knowledge in pet owners. I would welcome pet selling sites to say “£2000 purchase price. Estimated lifetime cost £20k” for example.

In the past year I have been asked or moaned at because…
“Why does my 8 week old puppy poo more than once a day, I don’t? Can I just feed it once and less food as it’s disgusting and inconvenient?” - A cockerpoo puppy owner
“What do you mean puppies need that amount of food? I can’t afford to feed her three times a day” - A cane corso puppy owner
“My cats don’t need flea treatment as I hoover everyday” - Had just bought three cats for each of their very young children.
“Why don’t vets tell people how expensive their fees are before they get animals, it’s robbery” - A lawyer that let their puppy eat rat poison, twice.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

Presumably you can’t always take the dog on, so is it only the cute ones that don’t get killed? Or do you manage to rehome every dog with a useless owner? How do you decide which dogs live and die?

one of the shitiest things I've seen posted on HHO in a long time.

 

[teddypops]

Vet practices are seen as unfair for not offering payment plans/needing payment upfront but I have been there doing debting for practices and it is normally an eye watering amount. Some of the vile comments and attitudes I have been on the receiving end of after asking someone to pay a bill, for treatment that saved their pets life, is astonishing.

Unfortunately you do lose compassion over time in practice. You hear the sob stories over and over again about the bill being too expensive, then see the owner turn up with a new Merle bulldog or brand new range rover. I won’t even go into some of the situations I saw in a PDSA service that have made me unfortunately lose trust in the charity as it’s system is taken advantage of everyday.

One of the reasons I have stepped into behind the scenes of clinical practice is I have lost tolerance for the suffering to animals on a daily basis by their so called beloved owners, from obesity, lack of preventative care/vaccination, prolonged pain due to financial concerns, the list goes on.

Pets are a privilege not a right and should be seen as a luxury. If you cannot afford their ongoing care do not get one.

I no longer work as a vet receptionist due to the nastiness of some clients which usually involved asking them to pay a bill or saying no to credit. ‘But we’ve just booked a holiday’ ‘l’ve just bought a new horse’ were regularly used excuses. Funnily enough, if people asked for credit, they were told no, but they could pay instalments in advance, no one took us up on the offer! (Obviously for non urgent treatment).

 

[MotherOfChickens]

There are 17,000 dogs pts in this country every year that are in good health but cannot be rehomed yet people breed and breed and breed to add to the mix especially during Covid as the price went through the roof. There should be a law against breeding whether mongrels, cross breeds or pedigrees. In America in the kill shelters they take armfuls at a time of dogs and shove them in a big box with a lid and turn on the gas, I've seen it with my own eyes, puppies sat on top of already gassed dogs wondering what's going on as the lid goes down on them. Dreadful.

I will never apologise for buying pedigree dogs from responsible breeders nor ponies. It is not my responsibility to take on someone else's responsibility from a rescue centre. I have never contributed towards the numbers in rescues although I've had a few rescues myself but I refuse to feel guilty about a problem that is not of my making, be it canine or equine. The killing of dogs in shelters is horrible and gassing abhorrent but the only people responsible are those that put them there in the first place.

 

[Landcruiser]

I no longer work as a vet receptionist due to the nastiness of some clients which usually involved asking them to pay a bill or saying no to credit. ‘But we’ve just booked a holiday’ ‘l’ve just bought a new horse’ were regularly used excuses. Funnily enough, if people asked for credit, they were told no, but they could pay instalments in advance, no one took us up on the offer! (Obviously for non urgent treatment).

I'm still hanging on in there, but aggression and refusal/unwillingness to pay seem to be increasing by the day. Only yesterday I stood my ground (because I'm old and cussed and assertive) to two seperate aggressive male clients. One wanted to book an appointment for a sick dog, but discuss serious behaviour issues/an allegation that this was our fault because it had happened since the dog was spayed, in another of his dogs (neither of which we had seen for well over a year) "while the vet was examining the sick dog." Thereby treating two dogs in one 15 minute consult. He was very aggressive when I told him he would need a separate paid consult for each dog. I was backed up by clinical staff who called him back to discuss - but after being equally rude and aggressive to our head nurse he decided to take his business elsewhere and good luck with that.
The other was someone collecting a cat after a spay, who aggressively questioned every item on the bill, complained about waiting 15 mins (after showing up half an hour late without appology) and generally refused to sit down, instead standing over me at the desk in an intimidating fashion. Which was water off a ducks back - because it's virtually daily, this abuse.
This is why vet bashing is so unfair. Vet practices are under incredible strain from all directions. People like OP, who have taken on a pet without first registering with a vet and making sure they have insurance/funds for illness or injury, are adding hugely to the stress levels. Apparently 3.2 million pets have been taken on since first lockdown - some days it feels like they are all phoning us asking to register, or for advice because something has gone wrong (but they can't even pay a consult fee). We are all doing our best and working hard and long, but it feels like we are sinking, as a profession whatever we do. People need to be more responsible for their own sh1t.

 

[MissTyc]

To me the solution is to enforce the message that pets are not an initial cost and that’s it and that their lifelong (10,15,20 years) care is the owners responsibility. It sounds silly to responsible owners but never over estimate knowledge in pet owners. I would welcome pet selling sites to say “£2000 purchase price. Estimated lifetime cost £20k” for example.

In the past year I have been asked or moaned at because…
“Why does my 8 week old puppy poo more than once a day, I don’t? Can I just feed it once and less food as it’s disgusting and inconvenient?” - A cockerpoo puppy owner
“What do you mean puppies need that amount of food? I can’t afford to feed her three times a day” - A cane corso puppy owner
“My cats don’t need flea treatment as I hoover everyday” - Had just bought three cats for each of their very young children.
“Why don’t vets tell people how expensive their fees are before they get animals, it’s robbery” - A lawyer that let their puppy eat rat poison, twice.

This 100 times over!
I think with horses that message is clearer, mostly because monthly livery fees are the first barrier and a very obvious one at that. When you buy a horse you need somewhere to put it and most people don't have their own land. Then you discover hay and bedding costs, etc etc ... As a big expensive animal, the costs of keeping a horse are well advertised. The costs of keeping a dog, however, are less clear because there's no standard monthly outlay. I am amazed at the price people pay for puppies while also expecting it to then basically live on table scraps and zero vet care.


ETA payment in advance, I think this is why so many vets offer "yearly plans" now that spread out the cost of routine care across the year. My equine vet does this, too, albeit more informally in that he can't stop me from transferring money to my account when I have some so then my bill is surprisingly low as pre-paid a few hundred

 

[DizzyDoughnut]

I'm another that just transfers money to my account with the vet whenever I some spare because I'm bound to use it! It makes bills far less painful to pay and means I don't have to worry about finding money for accidents or emergencies, because it's already just sitting there waiting.

This 100 times over!
I think with horses that message is clearer, mostly because monthly livery fees are the first barrier and a very obvious one at that. When you buy a horse you need somewhere to put it and most people don't have their own land. Then you discover hay and bedding costs, etc etc ... As a big expensive animal, the costs of keeping a horse are well advertised. The costs of keeping a dog, however, are less clear because there's no standard monthly outlay. I am amazed at the price people pay for puppies while also expecting it to then basically live on table scraps and zero vet care.


ETA payment in advance, I think this is why so many vets offer "yearly plans" now that spread out the cost of routine care across the year. My equine vet does this, too, albeit more informally in that he can't stop me from transferring money to my account when I have some so then my bill is surprisingly low as pre-paid a few hundred

 

[splashgirl45]

i have been with the same vet practice for almost 20 years and when i had my uninsured lurcher PTS at home ,i said can i just phone and pay as i dont want to see an invoice...he told me to pay what i can afford and take as long as i need to. i like to pay my bills and as i didnt have enough money to pay the whole bill, i used my credit card to pay. when i spoke to the vet nurse she also told me i didnt have to pay it all at once. personally i like to pay vets all of the bill and prefer to use anyway i can to pay....im sure this is because i have always paid promptly so i have a good relationship with my vet... i can understand a vet not offering a payment plan to a new client and feel that the vet did the right thing to offer to take over the dogs care...

 

[AmyMay]

My vets are also pretty relaxed about payment, Splashirl. I’ve only been with them for seven years, and no bill has ever been more than £200ish. But since lockdown they actually seem to prefer clients to go home and phone payment through.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

My vets are also pretty relaxed about payment, Splashirl. I’ve only been with them for seven years, and no bill has ever been more than £200ish. But since lockdown they actually seem to prefer clients to go home and phone payment through.

Yes ours do, too. We have known them for about 40 yrs though.