Urgent Help Please - Doctored Passport - who do I report it to

Bdazzling

Bdazzling

Active Member
Joined
27 July 2013
Messages
30
Visit site
Apologies for the length of this post.
I'm hoping someone can help me please. I've just bought a pony for my daughter. It was advertised as a 12yr old all rounder, good in all aspects, no vices etc etc.
When we went to try her out she was very well behaved, looked great and my daughter felt really confident on her. The person selling her said she had owned her for several years and had done allsorts of things with her and was only selling her due to family commitments.
Foolishly we didn't have her vetted, the seller seemed so plausible and was able to answer all our questions and it's an added expense that I could do without, yes, I know now I should have :( !

Anyway when I went to collect her I took a contract of sale with me which had a copy of the original advert, plus all details of the horse typed into the contract and got her to sign it. We brought the horse home with passport etc and all seemed well.

I decided I wanted to find out a bit more of the horses history and when I checked the passport for previous owners the person I had bought her off had tippexed out the previous owners name and address and written their details over the top. However I was able to read through this get the details of the previous owner.

When I rang her to find out more details she was horrified that I had been sold the horse. Apparently she had given the horse to the person I bought her from only 3 weeks earlier on the promise of a life long home. She told me that the horse was 19 not 12 and not a bomb proof pony as promised as she hates tractors, other horses and bites (we already found out about the last two!). Obviously if she has given the horse away she can't stop them selling it on but she was very upset.

after much discussion it turns out that the person I bought her from has taken the passport apart, removed the first few pages, where the date of birth etc shows and the vets identification chart, photocopied them, changed the date of birth from 1995 to 2002 on the front page and on the identification page to show 2002. And also the back section where you put the "not for human food chain" bit.

the pages are good copies and to be honest other than the fact that the paper is thinner and not watermarked I would not have noticed if I hadn't spoken to the previous owner.

so this person has fraudulently amended the passport and sold me a horse that is not as described. They have also given me a false name for themselves, however I have managed to find their name and full address and want to take it further, so after all this rambling on who do I report them to ?
Judging by the quality of the amended pages it's clearly not the first time they have done this and I don't want anyone else to get caught out...

sorry I've gone on but I thought it important to get all the facts down so people can give the right advice.
thanks for reading this
 
A friend of mine had a similar experience, bought a "safe" pony from a long time owner but the passport had been altered, tippex used to change dates, we sent a firmly worded letter, written by a solicitor, the people took the pony back after speaking to their legal rep and returned the money.
Ours was not as badly altered as yours, the deception was only about the time it had been owned, days not years, it really depends what you want to do, if you want to send it back or get the wheels moving legally, the PIO should be interested but they may not really help you to get out of the situation as it could take a long time to sort out and in the meantime you have a pony that you may not feel suitable to use.
 
You need to go to your local Trading Standards office. The person you bought the pony from is obviously 'dealing' - and fakinmg passport information is a serious offence. I should add that some Trading Standards officers aren't highly knowledgeable about horse passports - so you may have to jump up and down a bit.
 
JanetGeorge said:
You need to go to your local Trading Standards office. The person you bought the pony from is obviously 'dealing' - and fakinmg passport information is a serious offence. I should add that some Trading Standards officers aren't highly knowledgeable about horse passports - so you may have to jump up and down a bit.
Click to expand...

Thank you, I've just been trying to find the local trading standards but the website just refers you to the Citizens Advice ? I'm assuming they are separate departments though ? Should I tell the police too ?
 
be positive said:
A friend of mine had a similar experience, bought a "safe" pony from a long time owner but the passport had been altered, tippex used to change dates, we sent a firmly worded letter, written by a solicitor, the people took the pony back after speaking to their legal rep and returned the money.
Ours was not as badly altered as yours, the deception was only about the time it had been owned, days not years, it really depends what you want to do, if you want to send it back or get the wheels moving legally, the PIO should be interested but they may not really help you to get out of the situation as it could take a long time to sort out and in the meantime you have a pony that you may not feel suitable to use.[/

Thanks for replying. I am going to contact PIO tomorrow and see what they say.
Click to expand...
 
Trading standards now use citizens advice as their first point of call. Ring citizens advice, explain the situation and they will pass on to TS who will get back to you.
 
Don't know where you are, but worth checking if your Trading Standards is on Facebook, Devon is and answers messages really quickly (mine was a Passport problem too) and asked for my phone number and when convenient to call, they then phoned the next day and were most helpful.
 
Where did you buy the pony? (which county)

I would contact the police. It is fraud and if there have been other problems there may be a record and extra information will eventually trigger a case.

I contacted trading standards in Kent when I had problems with a pony I bought from a dealer there. I think I went through citizens advice first.
 
hoggedmane said:
Where did you buy the pony? (which county)

I would contact the police. It is fraud and if there have been other problems there may be a record and extra information will eventually trigger a case.

I contacted trading standards in Kent when I had problems with a pony I bought from a dealer there. I think I went through citizens advice first.
Click to expand...

Hi pony came from yard in Cheshire but seller lives in Staffordshire so not sure who to contact ? Will ring cheshire and ask them I think
 
I think it should come under the Theft act.. Obtaining pecuniary advantage by deception. Basically someone altered an official document which then allowed them to make a false / fraudulent statement as to age and suitability of the horse and then charge you more than the true worth of the horse.
I hope that you get the police to act. It should be the police force where the sale ( dishonest act) took place. Good luck with getting it sorted .. Is there any chance that you can find anyone ekes this person has defrauded ?
 
TrasaM said:
. Is there any chance that you can find anyone ekes this person has defrauded ?
Click to expand...

I did wonder about that, there is a facebook page where people name "dodgy dealers" and I've had a quick look and not seen the name, just not sure how i would stand legally if I name her whilst there is an ongoing case ? Maybe I could just put a message on asking for info from anyone in the area who has concerns about dealers.
 
Bdazzling said:
I did wonder about that, there is a facebook page where people name "dodgy dealers" and I've had a quick look and not seen the name, just not sure how i would stand legally if I name her whilst there is an ongoing case ? Maybe I could just put a message on asking for info from anyone in the area who has concerns about dealers.
Click to expand...
You could post with some details and not naming names. Also the local police would know if there have been previous complaints made.

Someone just tried to scam my friend on the local FB group. Usual trick.. Puppy needing rehoming and will deliver to her for £100 complete with heartbreaking sob story about her daughter dieing ! So wish it was easier to get those people locked up!
 
Bdazzling-are you able to PM me-I don't know how. I am also in Cheshire & have just taken on a mare in similar circumstances-given to dealer on promise of good home & she has sold her on. I knew the mare,but am having issues getting passport & now wondering if if is the same person-& passport may not arrive if she uses them for other purposes.
 
Bdazzling said:
Hi, no it's a B.H.S passport
Click to expand...

I am sure BHS will be VERY interested in someone altering one of their passports
Do phone in and tell them your story

At your local Council you need to ask for Animal Health/Welfare
They are part of Trading Stds for your council and the people interested and responsible for passport legislation--it is nothing to do with Police--yet!!
 
This probably won't help you get any money back but as others have suggested talk to the Police.
When they try and tell you that it is a civil matter remind them that the Passport has been altered and that you have a 'Contract of Sale.' If they still haven't got the message then tell them about Scn 2 of the Fraud Act 2006. Basically this makes an offence of 'fraud by false representation.' The Act uses the following wording;

Fraud by false representation

(1) A person is in breach of this section if he—

(a) dishonestly makes a false representation, and

(b) intends, by making the representation—

(i) to make a gain for himself or another, or

(ii) to cause loss to another or to expose another to a risk of loss.


(2) A representation is false if—

(a) it is untrue or misleading, and

(b) the person making it knows that it is, or might be, untrue or misleading.

(3) “Representation” means any representation as to fact or law, including a representation as to the state of mind of—

(a) the person making the representation, or

(b) any other person.

(4) A representation may be express or implied.

(5)For the purposes of this section a representation may be regarded as made if it (or anything implying it) is submitted in any form to any system or device designed to receive, convey or respond to communications (with or without human intervention).

If you wish to loose the will to live you may read the whole Act here;

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/35/introduction

This is a very serious charge. If found guilty at Magistrates then the offender can e sentenced up to 12 months inside and a fine not exceeding £5000. If the are (un)lucky enough to go to Crown Court then the sentence can be up to 10 years!! Like I said, it doesn't help you directly but if this happens an news gets out, it may well make a few other 'dealers' think carefully before reaching for the Tipp-ex and the photocopier!!

Doing things this way you only have to report to your local Police and they should be delighted to investigate, as from what you've said the case sounds pretty cut and dried.
 
GeeBee45 said:
This probably won't help you get any money back but as others have suggested talk to the Police.
When they try and tell you that it is a civil matter remind them that the Passport has been altered and that you have a 'Contract of Sale.' If they still haven't got the message then tell them about Scn 2 of the Fraud Act 2006. Basically this makes an offence of 'fraud by false representation.' The Act uses the following wording;

Fraud by false representation

(1) A person is in breach of this section if he—

(a) dishonestly makes a false representation, and

(b) intends, by making the representation—

(i) to make a gain for himself or another, or

(ii) to cause loss to another or to expose another to a risk of loss.


(2) A representation is false if—

(a) it is untrue or misleading, and

(b) the person making it knows that it is, or might be, untrue or misleading.

(3) “Representation” means any representation as to fact or law, including a representation as to the state of mind of—

(a) the person making the representation, or

(b) any other person.

(4) A representation may be express or implied.

(5)For the purposes of this section a representation may be regarded as made if it (or anything implying it) is submitted in any form to any system or device designed to receive, convey or respond to communications (with or without human intervention).

If you wish to loose the will to live you may read the whole Act here;

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/35/introduction

This is a very serious charge. If found guilty at Magistrates then the offender can e sentenced up to 12 months inside and a fine not exceeding £5000. If the are (un)lucky enough to go to Crown Court then the sentence can be up to 10 years!! Like I said, it doesn't help you directly but if this happens an news gets out, it may well make a few other 'dealers' think carefully before reaching for the Tipp-ex and the photocopier!!

Doing things this way you only have to report to your local Police and they should be delighted to investigate, as from what you've said the case sounds pretty cut and dried.
Click to expand...

Thank you, thats brilliant advice. I am going to ring them now !! I just want her stopped so she cant do it again. Thank you so much
 
Quick update spoke to fraud squad at great length yesterday, have a meeting arranged with them to go through it all, got the impression they knew about her already. will update after meeting, thank you all

If ANYONE ELSE HAS HAD DEALINGS SIMILAR TO THIS IN THE CHESHIRE / STAFFORDSHIRE AREA CAN YOU PM ME PLEASE AS POLICE WOULD LIKE MORE DETAILS
 
Cuffey said:
I am sure BHS will be VERY interested in someone altering one of their passports
Do phone in and tell them your story

At your local Council you need to ask for Animal Health/Welfare
They are part of Trading Stds for your council and the people interested and responsible for passport legislation--it is nothing to do with Police--yet!!
Click to expand...
Most definitely
 
Very useful thread so far, but suggest no further comments until police have decided whether to take action or not - terribly important to avoid anything which could be seen as prejudicial. Bit over cautious but praps wise. Let us know how it all turns out in the end - not before!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top