Urgent - Please Give Advice

SusieT

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15 September 2009
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In all honesty- a yard should quarantine - I'd be very unimpressed if they quarantined and then let a sick horse on and exposed everybody else especially if a suggestion of strangles which the iniital bloods did..
I would expect good heding or trees if no artificial shelter. I would not normally expect a twitch to be applied but bloods and scoping are entirely normal so you will be wasitng your energy on a complain I suspect!
 

ihatework

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7 September 2004
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I completely understand your angst and emotion, I would probably feel similar if I were a new horse owner too. But let’s look at this rationally.

1. Your new yard has a strict quarantine policy. This is a good thing.
2. Your horse tested positive, nobody was to know if this was prior exposure or the start of an active infection, your YO could do nothing but keep your horse in quarantine.
3. On retest you had a rising titre level. It was completely appropriate to do the guttural pouch. With a suspicion of strangles it was also completely appropriate to hit it with penecillin early. Had that test come back positive you might be singing a different tune about the vet.
4. Twitch & sedation, possibly overkill and not what I would want, but equally really not the end of the world. You are being a bit sensitive about that.
5. Penecillin reaction. Bad luck!
6. The lack/inappropriate response by the vet following that reaction is for me the thing that is the main issue, and yes I would not be pleased.

Your horse has gone through a really rough time and I’m very sorry, but I’m not sure much of the blame can be attributed to the YO. As a livery, would you want a horse showing potential strangles or infectious disease integrated with yours? That would be negligent.

You are now using a new vet, so I’d not be jumping ship too quickly. Try and rebuild relationships at yard and give it a go. If still unhappy you can move at a later date.
 

bubsqueaks

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16 July 2015
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Omg you have my every sympathy with your situation which is bad enough with any horse but with a newly owned horse even more of a nightmare at a time it should be such a happy time.
Well done for getting a 2nd vet opinion & fingers crossed for a good result.
For what its worth every time my horse was scoped at home for ulcers (4 times) my vet used sedation & a twitch - I didn't have a problem with this as pony is feisty, equipment is expensive as is whole procedure, & just wanted it over & done with as little disruption as possible. Twitches although look barbaric are quick & effective when used sparingly & correct - we have used it to obtain saliva test sample with our mini & worked a treat!
I truly hope you can move on very quickly with this whole nightmare & start enjoying your new horse. Best of luck.
 

SEL

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Hi OP - my mare had exactly the same post pouch wash in 2017. I ended up with an emergency callout 48 hours later. Her results were also negative but when the emergency vet did a full blood panel it showed raised inflammation markers

We did IV bute and steroids and as it seemed to trigger her ulcers 2 weeks of ulcers drugs. No one thought about allergic reactions to the antibiotics (which were flushed up her pouches while they took the sample). It took a while for her to bounce back and stopped her sweating mechanism annoyingly.

I can understand why the yard still want yours in isolation. Mine stayed with my other horse but they were both away from the herd. Good luck!
 

holeymoley

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I've read the rest, it sounds like your on a large competition venue? Try for something lower-key, they don't tend to ask for strangles testing. Can't advise I'm afraid, on the opposite side of the country.
 
Joined
30 January 2019
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I completely understand your angst and emotion, I would probably feel similar if I were a new horse owner too. But let’s look at this rationally.

1. Your new yard has a strict quarantine policy. This is a good thing.
2. Your horse tested positive, nobody was to know if this was prior exposure or the start of an active infection, your YO could do nothing but keep your horse in quarantine.
3. On retest you had a rising titre level. It was completely appropriate to do the guttural pouch. With a suspicion of strangles it was also completely appropriate to hit it with penecillin early. Had that test come back positive you might be singing a different tune about the vet.
4. Twitch & sedation, possibly overkill and not what I would want, but equally really not the end of the world. You are being a bit sensitive about that.
5. Penecillin reaction. Bad luck!
6. The lack/inappropriate response by the vet following that reaction is for me the thing that is the main issue, and yes I would not be pleased.

Your horse has gone through a really rough time and I’m very sorry, but I’m not sure much of the blame can be attributed to the YO. As a livery, would you want a horse showing potential strangles or infectious disease integrated with yours? That would be negligent.

You are now using a new vet, so I’d not be jumping ship too quickly. Try and rebuild relationships at yard and give it a go. If still unhappy you can move at a later date.
I agree with this apart from I do feel the YO should have better isolation facilities, the field my horse is in is totally exposed with no hedge, trees or anything. I do think I should have been advised of the risks of pre-emptively administering penicillin and there should be a better system for conflicts with their advisory vet. I am furious with the vet as in his denial about the penicillin he unnecessarily subjected my horse to 2 further doses of sedation and tubing and prolonged her quarantine.
 
Joined
30 January 2019
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18
In all honesty- a yard should quarantine - I'd be very unimpressed if they quarantined and then let a sick horse on and exposed everybody else especially if a suggestion of strangles which the iniital bloods did..
I would expect good heding or trees if no artificial shelter. I would not normally expect a twitch to be applied but bloods and scoping are entirely normal so you will be wasitng your energy on a complain I suspect!
I think I am entitled to complain about the vet not advising me on the risks of pre-emptively administering penicillin, his refusal to consider she could have had an allergic reaction to it, him misdiagnosing it as impaction colic and him prolonging her quarantine based on her having a random and coincidental mystery infection...
 

9tails

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20 January 2009
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In my area, all the respectable yards insist on strong bio-security, all new horses have to have a pre-movement strangles blood test then go into quarantine for 2 weeks and have a repeat strangles blood test. If their numbers are good they can then be admitted to the livery. My horse will likely always need to be scoped and guttural washed as she has historic antibodies which is why we had all the problems with the blood testing.
You've just had a clear strangles result and are still in isolation. I'd box up and move out elsewhere ASAP.
 

tristar

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23 August 2010
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welcome to the world of horses, you are making a great job of a terrible mess, you have insight and commonsense, hope it improves very very soon,, keep us posted, thanks
 
Joined
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Oh poor you. What a terrible thing to happen to anyone, and with a first horse it must be even more stressful.

My strong advice would be to look at other yards. In my opinion you will never be happy in this one. I have also never quarantined horses when moving them - it just doesn't make sense to me if they are anyway in contact with other horses at competitions. If quarantine is required it can anyway be done in a humane way, giving the horse a shelter or stable at least.

As a new owner you really need a yard where you can get help and advice when needed. Maybe you have friends with horses who could advise of some nice place to keep her? And remember that the best yard for you is not necessarily the one that looks the smartest - the horse doesn't care if the stable is beautifully painted - they just want somewhere that is warm, clean and dry.

Good luck going forward, and I really hope that you will soon be able to post that your horse is well and happy.
 

ycbm

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30 January 2015
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In my area, all the respectable yards insist on strong bio-security, all new horses have to have a pre-movement strangles blood test then go into quarantine for 2 weeks.


But this is completely pointless unless nobody ever takes their horse off the yard to anywhere where there are horses which have never been quarantined, which is basically everywhere anyone goes.
 

ihatework

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7 September 2004
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14,435
But this is completely pointless unless nobody ever takes their horse off the yard to anywhere where there are horses which have never been quarantined, which is basically everywhere anyone goes.
I’d argue it’s not completely pointless, but yes not fail safe.

Lots of horses being shipped over from Ireland in close confines, or cobs passing through dealers yards often via sales rings.

I think it’s a sensible precaution to quarantine unknown horses and more places should do it.
 

Ambers Echo

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13 October 2017
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I am sorry you are in this predicament. I think Ihatework has broken down the issues very well. I take your point about isolation facilities too, but your YO having strong bio-security measures is a good thing - I wish more Yard owners did - and once symptoms were showing she had to be guided by her vet. Our YO allows us to use our own vets in general but when it comes to quarantine, disease control etc then her own vets are the 'vets in charge of the outbreak' and we all have to defer to them. It sounds like that is what is happening because while you have the right to get a 2nd opinion from your vet, she has the right to refuse to let you out of quarantine if her own vet advises against that, no matter what your vet says. Her yard, her rules and they don't seem excessive to me. I presume she has no reason to doubt the vet and so in her eyes your horse is showing symptoms that require further investigation before your horse is allowed in with the rest of the horses. That is exactly what quarantine means.

The vet sounds like he made mistakes and you have formally complained. Not sure there is anything else you can do.

Re your question about how to get your horse out of quarantine - where are things up to in terms of coming out of isolation now? If your horse is no longer showing symptoms are you still waiting for other tests to come back? Has the vet/YO given you a time-frame. You can't be stuck there indefinitely so you need to ask for clarity on where things are up to.
 
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Thank you for your kind words, It is my 1st horse and it truly has been a nightmare. Isolation was already brutal as we were confined to the field, but ending up caught up in the politics of having registered my horse with the yard's advisory vet and him turning out to be such a terrible vet has truly been awful in the suffering it has caused my poor horse and how we are being held hostage in quarantine. It states in the livery contract that none of the livery horses are allowed to come into contact with any non-livery horses and that only livery horses are permitted on the yard.

"advisory vet" very odd! I have always used a vet I know and trust and of my choosing, you should not be having to use a vet just because he attends your yard!!! this rings alarm bells to me!
 
Joined
18 April 2015
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Honestly this place sounds like a nightmare. I don't get how your horse is not allowed to come into contact with other horses? What about competitions / hunting? And no meeting a friend for a ride I suppose? What if you meet another horse out hacking are you supposed to gallop off in the opposite direction? I'm all for precautions, but that is a prison!
 

Ambers Echo

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Your own vet will look after your horse. An advisory vet to a whole yard will look after the needs of the group as a whole. Sometimes those different perspectives are going to create a conflict of priorities as in this case. Your vet is prioritising your horse and going with one diagnosis which may be the most likely explanation bit not necessarily the only explanation. The advisory vet on the other hand seem to be being more cautious about ruling out infectious disease which is what he is there to do given that your horse is in quarantine. Emotive words like 'holding my horse hostage' aren't really helpful. Unfortunately for you your horse has got sick in quarantine and quite rightly your YO is not allowing him onto the main yard without that being cleared by her vet. If you were on the main yard and there was someone else's sick horse in quarantine I think you'd be quite glad they were taking bio--security seriously.
 
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