Urgently need advise about young horse

[Crazylittlemaisey]

I’m considering having to sell my mare who I bought in June as she’s proving to be a) not as advertised and b) very reactive around her back end.

She’s just fly bucked at two cars driving up behind her and she doesn’t mess about with little kicks, she’s got very long legs!! She’s also gone up once when I was trying to get her to walk sensibly with a land rover behind her. I excused this one as she had just walked under a motorway bridge and the landrover cane up behind with a row of lights on. But the kicking out at cars is an escalated version of what she’s been doing. She’s always been reactive to cars but this is a new level and I’ve managed it by turning her to face the car to see it go by.

I can’t hack out or school without going on the road and she won’t load into my trailer (which I was assured she did).

I blanked on being able to get her out and about to progress her training etc. I’ve had a Kelly Marks NH person out for the loading and whilst we got her in the trailer, doing the breaching bar up is frankly dangerous as she reversed out fast. I plan to do more work with this in the spring.

She’s young, she’s 5 so I don’t know what people’s successes are in changing how a horse is. I feel totally out of my depth tbh. Instinct says sell her but who to?! I don’t think I’ll ever trust her.

So - have you dealt with a horse that’s reactive to that extreme with success? Do horses come back from that?

Feeling so very deflated

 

[DappleDown]

It sounds like you need a bit of regular support and help from someone experienced with young/problem horses.

Look to see if someone professional will come out regularly and help you with schooling her. We used to have a yard locally (gone now), that took in horses on full livery and trained/retrained horses with issues. Maybe that is an option.

 

[Wheels]

It sounds like any movement at her back end makes her reactive.

First I would get her eyes checked to make sure her vision is ok then I would work on desensitising her to things around her back end. Maybe the IH person can help you with that?

 

[GirlFriday]

There are plenty of good horses with good owners and good homes who don't get on well. Not every horse/rider/home combination works out. No shame at all in thinking that this mare may do better in a home where there is a school on-site/she doesn't hack by motorways/does hack with calmer older equine company etc. And there are plenty of homes out there like that.

Take a look at some of the videos Pedantic posts on here of riding over road bridges etc. The comments below most of them should give you an idea that, whilst what you (and Pedantic, and many others) ask your horses to do is entirely reasonable it isn't what many, many horses ever have to do, particularly not at 5.

There are posts on here from people who are very committed to getting through tough times with a horse that others wouldn;t immediately thinks suits their set up and abilities. And lots of them go on to be successful partnerships.

Have a think about what, if any, adjustments you can/would be prepared to make (move to yard with on-site school/hacking companion/turnout near roads to get used to cars/lessons/etc) and what simply doesn't work for you. If mare is sound and otherwise good to have aroudn there will probably be homes out there for her which either have the expereince to get her over the traffic thing or where it simply doesn't arise to the same degree.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

When your'e riding down the road and traffic comes behind, halt her, positioning her back end slightly towards the hedge. Shorten your reins so you can keep her straight without fidgeting, raise your right hand and bring it across to your left side, this will have the effect of turning her head to the right so she can see the vehicle coming, whilst also pinning her in position. If she does kick out it will just be the hedge that gets it. The more exposure to vehicles she gets, whilst having positive experiences (ie not getting run over or getting into a massive panic), the better she will become.

If you want to sell, you could look for a home with direct access to off road hacking, she sounds to be suitable for that as she is.

 

[Crazylittlemaisey]

Thanks for reply. I’ve had her eyes checked by two Vets as I think they look a bit cloudy but I’ve been assured there’s no sign of a problem. I wonder if she could have limited vision and they’ve not picked it up?

I’ve still got the help of the IH Lady as she’s my regular instructor too - I’m investing a lot in her training as I’d like to keep her for good. She suggested Desensitization and I’ve done a little bit but should do more.

I was more shocked than anything today.

She’d not seen traffic before she came here as she was imported and it has been raining which she’s not a fan of tbh! Splashy roads, water under foot etc.

Thank you for the encouragement

 

[Crazylittlemaisey]

It sounds like you need a bit of regular support and help from someone experienced with young/problem horses.

Look to see if someone professional will come out regularly and help you with schooling her. We used to have a yard locally (gone now), that took in horses on full livery and trained/retrained horses with issues. Maybe that is an option.

Definitely. I do have regular support though she is a home and I’m mostly on my own with her so it’s not ideal but it’s how it is. I have a couple local friends to hack out with and she is great to hack and has got so so much better on the road.

Thanks for reply

 

[Crazylittlemaisey]

When your'e riding down the road and traffic comes behind, halt her, positioning her back end slightly towards the hedge. Shorten your reins so you can keep her straight without fidgeting, raise your right hand and bring it across to your left side, this will have the effect of turning her head to the right so she can see the vehicle coming, whilst also pinning her in position. If she does kick out it will just be the hedge that gets it. The more exposure to vehicles she gets, whilst having positive experiences (ie not getting run over or getting into a massive panic), the better she will become.

If you want to sell, you could look for a home with direct access to off road hacking, she sounds to be suitable for that as she is.

Good plan - thank you. I do this when riding and she s not done this whilst I’ve been riding her, I was leading her today. I shouldn’t have taken her out on wet roads, it’s just so difficult in the winter, isn’t it?! Thanks for reply

 

[Crazylittlemaisey]

Girl Friday - we get on brilliantly generally, there’s a lot of trust there generally, she’s good to school, has improved being handled and being hacked out. I could expect better in 6 months and you’re right about the motorway bridge, that was wishful thinking and I can be a bit ‘tally ho, crack on(!)’ with horses so as I say I can forgive that one.

I have changed her feed to add in alfalfa and I’ve also recently stopped her having valerian as we’ve had building work going on and it was causing her stress. She doesn’t seem stressed but I suppose that doesn’t mean she’s not.

I wanted to give her alfalfa as an ulcer preventative (she has ad lib hay too).

I guess management wise maybe the wet roads combined with stopping valerian has tipped her over. (She wasn’t having valerian before and was fine but then it wasn’t winter etc)

Thanks for reply

 

[JGC]

I would say that alfalfa is a really common allergen for horses - I had an ulcer-prone horse who would go completely loopy on it and more than one other that it didn't agree with. Also, I found that mares' seasons can get worse around 4/5 and I've had two mares whose seasons would continue throughout winter. It might be worth getting the vet to check ovaries as aggression at the back end has been a season thing with the mares I've had.

 

[ester]

How is she around her back end generally or is this always a trigger point for her?

 

[Crazylittlemaisey]

JGC I’ve wondered about the alfalfa and perhaps will just steer clear and see if she cheers up!! I took her off Valarian A’s whilst the buuilding work is still going on I don’t really want her to be on it. She is in general a peaceful Horse.

Thanks for reply and suggestions. I’ve not had a young mare before

 

[Crazylittlemaisey]

Ester she’s geberally reactive around her back end - if a wet rug drags over her bum she panics, my Farrier’s dog ran past her bum and she kicked ouT, I just find ways to avoid or manage it, gentle exposure etc.

Thanks for reply

 

[rascal]

We never feed alfalfa, as JGC said, it does not agree with all horses.
A cob we sold years ago, was fed it by her new owner, and she reacted badly.

 

[ester]

Ester she’s geberally reactive around her back end - if a wet rug drags over her bum she panics, my Farrier’s dog ran past her bum and she kicked ouT, I just find ways to avoid or manage it, gentle exposure etc.

Thanks for reply

Ok in which case I really would start with the vet for that, obviously it is possible she has had a bad event in the past that sets that off but I would want to check it out first in case she has got something going on ovary wise etc.

 

[GirlFriday]

What equine company does your mare have at home? Is it sensible and ride (or lead, if unridden) - able by someone else? Lots of times people put the more experienced horse behind/slightly to the R so that the less confident one can experience traffic without it being right up their bum.

 

[JFTDWS]

I would want to be confident that this is behavioural and not physical, so I would certainly do as ester suggests and have her checked out. It's not normal to be that reactive to things behind her, so having ruled out a physical issue, I would be inclined to really focus on getting her used to stuff going on behind her - rugs coming off fast, unusual stuff happening, building up (very slowly) to putting your own car behind her in a controlled environment. Does she long rein, or does that trigger issues? I would want her to accept that before I tried taking her out on the road where people do stupid things. Generally, if she doesn't improve with exposure, I'd be inclined to think there may be something physical or underlying (even if initial vet examination suggests otherwise), and you may need to consider other options. There may be homes where these sorts of triggers could be avoided, but her future will be more secure if they don't have to be...

If you're not sure how to go about this sort of groundwork and exposure, or not confident you can do it safely, I'd definitely recommend getting a good, experienced trainer who specialises in this sort of field to help you.

 

[SEL]

My friend bought a 4yo that was extremely reactive around his back end. I rode him a few times after she backed him and it was so bad that a bramble touching him caused him to shoot forward and buck, and I ended up having a nasty fall.

She did a bit of research and it turned out that when he was weaned from his dam he ran back to her through electric fencing and it got caught round his back legs. I suspect his then owners didn't realise how much it traumatised him and it was only when he was backed and there were all sorts of flapping things (the girth for instance - saddling him was a challenge) that it became a real issue.

In the end she sold him on with full disclosure and he went to a home that was experienced with young horses and they did a huge amount of desensitising with him. I saw him a few times hacking out and he seemed fine - so I guess they cracked it.

No shame in selling on if this isn't something you are prepared to deal with, but alternatively you could look to find a yard where she could go to on schooling livery for a few weeks to see if they can work with her. Good luck.

 

[Identityincrisis]

I have no suggestions on training, I'm sure you'll get plenty people to offer advice on that but what I do have to say is, don't give up entirely! I can honestly say I didn't particularly like or enjoy my lad for about 2 years! It is only the last 1 1/2 that we have become a team but we still have discussions about behaviour! The only reason I didn't sell was, like you, I didn't think anyone would want him (plenty of past threads on here about him)

As for trailer training, that took me 3 years! and a drunken, desperate email to Richard Maxwell begging for help I'd had numerous IH people fail to even present the ***** to the trailer, RM had him fully loaded in 30 minutes!!!

Don't give up yet if you think she's worth it, I always said I would happily do all I had to do if I had a good horse by 6 and I do but that was 3 1/2 years of work

 

[DD]

what do you do when she kicks? does she know she shouldn't do it. a bl%%^y good smack might work wonderd. I have a kicker it used to take 2 of us to handle him in the stable, he kicks no more. he knows he musnt do it. a chestnut mare I once had was the same. if the horse kicks wack it , once, and hard. they soon learn.

 

[VRIN]

I would second Richard maxwell - know someone who had him for a horse that they had tried everything with to get him to load. It took all day but he finally loaded and to this day still loads...

 

[Chinchilla]

what do you do when she kicks? does she know she shouldn't do it. a bl%%^y good smack might work wonderd. I have a kicker it used to take 2 of us to handle him in the stable, he kicks no more. he knows he musnt do it. a chestnut mare I once had was the same. if the horse kicks wack it , once, and hard. they soon learn.

Depends why it's kicking though; they can kick for other reasons besides being a little s h i t like pain/discomfort or past trauma. OP needs to know why horse is behaving as it does in order to act appropriately.

OP are you in touch with past owner(s)?

 

[Orangehorse]

It may be that she has suffered an accident or trauma which means that her problem is ingrained, but at the moment it sounds as though she needs more training and desensitivation.

I agree with the halting on the road if a car is coming and facing her quarters to the hedge! I had a very, very spooky horse that would shy at a leaf in the hedge and leap sideways, so every time I heard a car I would halt and wait for the car come past - although she didn't kick at cars only horses and people! - this had a very good effect as she became very obedient to the softest halt aids which improved her schooling no end.

Has she ever been lunged or long reined with the reins round her back end? If you don't know be very, very careful about this. In theory you put the reins on and let them get used to it - but USE CAUTION as you don't want an accident with a bolting, frightened horse. Your IH person should be able to help with this, and it might also be a good idea to get hold of a book by Linda Tellington-Jones who dealt with all sorts of difficult horses with various problems. Take care and think safety first.

Riding and lunging with a stretchy bandage round their quarters can be very successful, but you have to get it on first and the horse to accept it without getting in a panic.

 

[Michen]

I bought a young project Connie from Ireland after losing my horse earlier this year.

To say he was a difficult traveller is an understatement (see my threads). I have never experienced anything like it, he's caused so much damage to my thankfully very sturdy lorry. I sent him to a pro for a week who also failed to get this horse travelling calmly. But after three months of relentless patience, literally building up time on the lorry second by second I now have a horse who travels beautifully, I even took him for a lesson the other day despite him not having travelled for three months and it was as if he'd been on it every day. So Have faith that you CAN sort the travelling out.

With regards to the rest, mine is/was also the same in different ways being extremely quick to do a horrendous spin, nap, fly buck. I gave up and got a pro rider for him two days a week whose worked wonders. I now have a happy horse to ride on the days that I do.

Can you invest a bit of money into getting some help?

 

[Crazylittlemaisey]

Really appreciate all the posts and suggestions.

I’ve taken the advice of my instructor/behaviourist and am going to get her vet checked. As she kicks out in the field at seemingly nothing as well and has done it once when I’ve been riding her, I think she’s either in pain or scared of being in pain.

She doesn’t do it ‘just’ when she’s being challenged so it’s not purely argumentative.

She’s girthy and bites onto things (doesn’t actually crib) when I approach her with a Saddle, took ages to get her happy about a rug going on and she still has her moments, she hates having a rug dragged across her bum, especially if it’s wet. She kicks at her tummy periodically (I don’t mean colic like but like every now and again). I do wonder about ulcers and will get her scopes if the vet thinks it’s the thing to do.

I’m going to get a third vet to look at her eyes.

I know she’s weak across her back/under developed, but I’d put this down to her having had a foal/weaned it when she arrived with me aged 4 rising 5. She holds her pelvis tucked a little underneath her and I suppose this could indicate tummy pain? It would make sense.

She’s a real Jekyll and Hyde character (I called her Heidi!!) but when she’s sweet she is very loving and peaceful. When she’s not, she’s truly horrid and hateful.

She gets a shouting at/sharp slap on the neck if she nips (baby like rather than mare-ish teeth bared horrid biting) because I don’t tolerate it at all having been bitten badly once!!

She has hacked out in the dry pretty much foot perfectly with traffic from in front and behind and unfortunately I can’t hack without traffic and live on a country lane. I won’t take her out without my old mare/my friends’ sensible gelding as a Nanny if nothing else to hide behind for cars/larger vehicles.

Really do appreciate all the advice. Over Christmas I’ve decided to stop the alfalfa and put her back on valerian just to chill her out again and then get my instructor and the vet out in the new year.

I think I’ve unfortunately discovered two very little flattish grey sarcoids in her ears too. Will get the vet to look at that too!

But... at least she’s at home and has as much turnout as she likes, a shelter, an older calm horse who rarely moves faster than a sluggish plod(!) and no pressure on her. So she’s in the best environment to relax!

 

[ester]

It definitely sounds like a good vet check, with investigations is in order, ovaries, ulcers, SI pain maybe all sound like possibilities. It definitely isn't normal just to be doing it in the field as well as all the other occassions.

 

[Ceifer]

I would also ask the Vet to check for wobblers

 

[Ladyinred]

I would say that alfalfa is a really common allergen for horses - I had an ulcer-prone horse who would go completely loopy on it and more than one other that it didn't agree with. Also, I found that mares' seasons can get worse around 4/5 and I've had two mares whose seasons would continue throughout winter. It might be worth getting the vet to check ovaries as aggression at the back end has been a season thing with the mares I've had.

This ^^ totally. Some horses thrive on it but a good many have problems of all sorts with it, both allergic reactions and behavioural problems

We use Top Specs Top Chop Zero, which is alfa free and also completely sugar free.

 

[BBP]

Everything you have said indicates to me a root cause of physical pain. My little horse used to buck and leap on the roads and would throw himself around. We diagnosed sacroiliac injury and ulcers, hindgut pain (and hayfever). He was a mess and I hadn’t noticed the subtle signs of stress so he had ecsalated until he was screaming at me. Treated the issues and he is now a delight to hack, even when he is full of himself and sharp those stressy panicked reactions are gone. A good whack would have done nothing but harm. Horses only have so many ways of saying they are hurting. If it was me I wouldn’t ride or take her out until a good Vet has seen her.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

It does sound like physical pain.

I once had mare, bought as a 4 yr old, who we eventually found was allergic/sensitive to all cereals and refined sugar. As it happens she was fine with alfalfa, although we have since had a few that couldn't cope with it. Anyway, right from the start she was difficult to rug/saddle and super-sensitive to being touched anywhere behind the shoulder. She also became strongly reactive to noise over time. I would stop the alfalfa and monitor her over Christmas and the New Year, then if there is no improvement, book a through vet check.