urgh, Appleby coming to town....

It`s scary, isn`t it? And I agree, it`s not the genuine Romanies that are the problem but the hangers on. We`re in Lancashire on the main drag up to Appleby and there have been several temporary camps set up en route already. Our neds can be seen from the road and although the gate is locked, it`s still a worry.

On a slightly different note, Appleby is part of our catchment area and it`s interesting to hear what the locals have to say about the fair and how it alters their way of life for the duration of the event. Some parents have said that they feel like prisoners in their own home, others choose to go away for the time that the fair is on.
 
I would be too worried to leave my home if I lived there, so I guess i would become a prisoner, with Shy in the back garden :D Many of the pubs and businesses in Appleby have to close down for the week, so it's not as if the locals are making money unless they accept the risks - then they can lose a lot and make a lot.

We've had the first two trotting outside our house this evening.. I hear the hooves but daren't look, as I will just get upset and stressed.
 
The isn't a horsewatch in Cumbria. I was in negotiations some time ago regarding setting one up but the consensus was that horse thefts are extremely rare in Cumbria and as such, insufficient finance to set up. Basically, there is not a believed need.

Unfortunately, the fear of crime is insufficient. I have never actually known a Cumbrian horse be stolen in the run up to Appleby but the fair makes everyone twitchy, including myself.

The other point is, that the majority of the Police there are there for the public order aspect rather than those with horse knowledge, plus there are 100s of horses dotted around the whole area. I do not even know if the RSPCA officers in attendance carry a microchip scanner. I would think that any Officers with an ounce of knowledge try their very hardest to get out of working at the fair due to the "different" way in which the horses are kept. Those in the know find it distressing. Horses have drowned in the river, suffered broken bones, harness sores, concussion lameness from being hammered up and down the streets continuously until they are also lathered in sweat. Not for the faint hearted.
Fortunately I live far enough away that we don't get the "squatters" enroute, but a nervous time for all. :(
 
how come Appleby fair is still running,...as the years go by, and country life changes, including the loss of agricultural shows, and local auction markets, is there still a place in modern society for such gatherings as Appleby? sorry to be contraversial, but did these guys all vote in the election?
 
I was hacking a coloured youngster out the other day, past a raod that a camp is on. There were 4 men stading in the middle of the road where we were heading, i must admit for a wee while i thought they were going to take the horse from me - But they were very friendly :)

I hope everyones horses/ponies and tack etc are all safe this year :)
 
thomb said:
how come Appleby fair is still running,...as the years go by, and country life changes, including the loss of agricultural shows, and local auction markets, is there still a place in modern society for such gatherings as Appleby? sorry to be contraversial, but did these guys all vote in the election?
Click to expand...

I would guess that at least 75% DIDN'T, or actually couldn't, vote. They aren't registered and they change their identities with their undies!

The fair is run because of 'tradition', I'm sure the cruelty and criminality that goes hand in hand with the fair has no place in the tradition.....it started with Romany gypsies, taking a few opportunities a year to meet up and trade/swap animals.....but these days they aren't the only ones attending, and that's not what they're here for.
 
thomb said:
how come Appleby fair is still running,...as the years go by, and country life changes, including the loss of agricultural shows, and local auction markets, is there still a place in modern society for such gatherings as Appleby? sorry to be contraversial, but did these guys all vote in the election?
Click to expand...

First of all, i feel for those of you who have had animals stolen, and your lives disrupted, i feel for you i really do.
But i take exception to the above quote, what the *&ck has voting got to do with an age old fair?? And just because we have lost some ag shows and markets, does this mean we should give up on our way of life in the country, no it should be preserved. I agree the fairs should be better monitered and policed, but i don't see " modern society" throwing out anything better, whats so good about modern society anyway.:(
 
That website is really very interesting - The cost of running appleby to the public sector is huge - with extra police, nhs services and council services. I do not appreciate my taxes going to pay for this when its completley unessacary.

Also the part on the website about how they can claim free laptops is brilliant :rolleyes: for god sake - absolutley ridiculous

I really have no patience with them - for a week my home town was a state because of travellers - they basically destroyed the shops, pissing in changing rooms stealing etc. I was working on a local paper at the time and they had camped by a local park - there was human **** all over the swings and slides. All pissed up at 7 in the morning aswell.

However my mum as a teacher has taught quite a few traveller children and has always had pleasent experiences with them

I really feel for you living that way.
 
Appleby is an ancient Romany Fair - the problem is, it has just got totally out of hand now. There is no way of stopping it without Human Rights issues involved- if only the people who take our taxes could get a grip of it.....

How many of these horses have PASSPORTS ?? Surely that is one way of cracking down ? It is illegal to sell a horse without a passport :mad:

The thing is, what happens actually at Fair Hill is being partially monitered. It is the backstreet gathering, like here outside my house that are not, so the horses can be flogged along the roads or left tethered without water, and no-one dares to do anything. That is where half the problem lies in my eyes.

This was a Romany event that has just got totally taken over and has a very dark side to it - leaves a bad taste in the mouth. For every horse lover that wants to visit, bare this in mind....

When I lived in Cumbria, there was a Born Again Christian gypsy event in a field rented out by a farmer for a verylarge sum of money no planning permission, but too late once it started. Theft was the name of the game, could not believe it was happening given the point of the event .....but again it was just an excuse for the hangers on to meet up. I was working in a local pub, and we had to close it down after the "kids" kept having to be chucked out. It was horrible, totally out of control, we felt very threatened. "missus".
 
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Might be a good time to bring this subject up...

This is a letter I intend sending to DEFRA. It may be futile, but I feel I have to take issue with them on this.

'I write to express my disappointment that Defra has implemented legislation requiring all passport applications to be accompanied by microchip details, with no provision made for horse owners to choose freezemarking as an alternative to the microchip.

As DEFRA will no doubt be aware, it is possible for microchips to be removed from equines, by unscrupulous dealers and thieves, and for horses thus 'cleansed' to be sold for meat while their passports and microchips are falsely applied to a replacement horse. It is also possible for microchips to move within the horse's body, making the chip's location and reading difficult or impossible.
In the case of the chipped horse being stolen, its recovery greatly depends on a person with a scanner to be in the right place at the right time to identify the animal and intervene to prevent its loss.
The abundance of various bodies offering chipping, and the lack of requirement for those bodies to submit all information to a central database can be the cause of further impediment in the successful recovery of stolen animals. Vets who offer the microchipping service may use different companies from which to source their chips, and the subsequent data is not centrally collated. If the relevant paperwork held by the owner is misplaced, or stolen, there could be much delay and confusion before an informed search can be instigated.

Freezemarking of horses is a visual declaration of responsible ownership. Horses thus marked are immediately identifiable to anyone who may be interested, and there is no requirement for specialist personal presence and equipment before a suspected stolen animal can be checked. Once a horse is freezemarked, it is identifiable for life. It is evident that thieves rarely steal freezemarked horses, seemingly preferring to lift those which are less likely to be spotted by the casual observer.

Farmkey, the company who offer the service, have a central database to which all information is provided, and that information is immediately available to those concerned in the recovery of stolen horses. Indeed, Farmkey boast a 98% success rate in returning stolen horses to their owners. The police forces, equine welfare bodies, and the horsewatch schemes rate Farmkey and freezemarking very highly.

I appreciate that not all owners would wish to freezemark their equines, and this may be the main reason for microchips to be the method of ID favoured by DEFRA, but I am greatly disappointed that owners have not been furnished with the ability to opt for freezemarking as their preferred, or chief, means of identifying their animals.

As the law stands, all passport applications must now include details of microchip ID. Owners who wish to have their horses freezemarked, and who may have little faith in microchipping, are obliged to have a chip inserted, and then to incur extra cost to have their animals marked with a visual deterrent.

I would like DEFRA to consider giving owners the right to choose to freezemark their horses over microchipping, and for those owners to be recognised by DEFRA as responsible.'

Anyone care to support this? I'm not sure how to start a petition...any advice?
 
IrishDraught
Think you may have forgotten Hettie stolen during Fair last year but due to honesty of buyer at a Kent Horse Fair is now home again
Sadly due to lack of Horsewatch--getting this theft into the system ie onto Stolen Horse Register took quite a while--I had to email Fell Pony Society with paperwork for them to pass to owner.

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/387/295322.html
 
Not sure how you start a petition tbh. One point about freezebranding, which is why I haven't done it ...... it's usually placed in the saddle area, so it just takes a saddle to cover it up ? sm x

ps great news Cuffey !!
 
I think your letter sounds very sensible. My horses have both chips and marks, and also have their database entries with Farmkey kept up to date. I have warning signs by the field and on the stables that they are so protected. Unfortunately I can't put up one saying I will pay for a contract to be taken out so they never walk again if they touch my horses.

My gelding is a very nice example of a gypsy cob, though being a gelding not so wanted, and our clydesdale is a mare and a good example and very attractive to certain folks, hence why I do everything I can to protect them.

I really don't understand why people do not have freezemarks, especially those with coloureds and shetlands which are very much in demand to these folks. It really is the one thing that puts them off being taken. Microchips really are not a good way of securing your animal due to all the points in your letter.
 
Shysmum, you can have the freezemark put anywhere you like (within reason). I agree, a saddle area one can just be covered up, so hence I had my mare done on the shoulder - it also meant I didn't have to stop riding her for 10 days.
 
I have been involved in the recovery of a number of stolen horses and from many years of experience I would strongly advise all horse owners to have their horses freezemarked if they would like any chance of recovering them after they have been stolen. A freezemark can be read by anyone (member of the public, police etc). Microchipping is a total waste of time as many micro-cips will not be registered by the scanners as there are so many different systems. So please get your horses freezemarked (preferably on their shoulder) without delay if you would like a chance of recovering your horse after theft.
 
Gosh, I don't envy you poor lot living so close.
I got myself a bit paranoid the other day. Some gypsys that vaguely know my YO came to ask if they had anything for sale and they told them no... but they took a real liking to Freddie! (see sig) Apparently one brother came one day and was asking about him and then the other brother came another day and was also pushing for info about him. Luckily they were looking for mares so I think the fact he was a gelding put them off... but I did worry a bit. Especially with Appleby so close!

It's awful that people should have to worry so much and be on such close guard. :( I'm all for Appleby (as long as the animals are properly cared for) but the thieves give all travellers and fairs a bad name, which is a shame. My YO, due to specialising in coloureds, particularly of the hairy variety, has dealings with plenty of travellers/gypsys, most of which are not looking for any trouble, so it's a shame when other see fit to taint that image.
 
what you all need to do is get OTTBs, then you could tether them out by the road side with a big sign by them reading "PLEASE STEAL ME" and still they would be perfectly safe! :D (a joke btw)

I did toy with going to Stow one year, but I'm so glad I never did if your stories are anything to go by. I am sorry for those of you whose lives have been disrupted and whose horses or property have been stolen and I am sorry for the proper travelling families who get unfairly tarred by the same brush as the bad ones. Sadly, I think that like the horse tax this will never get far enough up the public agenda to get anything done about cleaning it up.
 
AngusOg
The correct ''form'' is to write to your MP who will ask the new Minister for Agriculture and Food Jim Paice your question
You should get a sensible answer as both Ministers have an understanding of farming and country matters

Just a small point Northern Brand and Freezemark also freezebrand horses as well as Farmkey

You can Petition The Prime Minister
http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/
 
My Ifor Williams trailer was stolen two weeks ago - of course it was because Appleby Fair is just around the corner and of course it was stolen to order! I was so gutted, it took me 15 yrs to save up for that trailer and now its gone! It was insured but thats not the point -Just the thought of someone snooping around my property sickens me.

My trailer was behind a locked gate, plus the ball hitch was locked and the wheel had an insurance approved bulldog lock on it. They took the wheel and lock off together and put the spare wheel on instead. How they towed it I don't know but they did. Thank god they didn't take the horses too. Both mine are feeezemarked and one is also microchipped.

I've now got farm watch signs up and have installed extra gates and security locks - at great expense I might add! The dozy idiots probably haven't realised my trailer has a postcode in massive red letters on the roof and it was datatagged. I've told Ifor Williams too. Just sickening, can't wait for it to be over!
 
*is saddened that once again, people are bashing an entire sect of society for no real reason - although is happier to see people are starting to tell the difference between "pikeys" and "gypsies"*

My housemate and I were going to go to appleby... but I think it'll clash with exams, which is a shame. I'll just have to go next year!

Of course, we were going to nick everything that wasn't tied down on the way up...

I'm stunned, shocked and in awe at the blind stupidity on this thread. Everyone claims to have lost tack, dogs, horses and trailers to the Appleby Gypsies, yet NONE of you went to the fair to reclaim your belongings! NONE of you ACTUALLY saw you items stolen by gypsies!

Organised crime gangs are usually responsible for trailers and farm equipment - we had a couple of altercations with them, and I know damn well it wasn't gypsies!!!

A few months ago my housemate was stuck in wales cos someone stole all the copper wiring from the signal - scrap metal has value to everyone atm!!! (I was tempted by the copper tiles on the side of a building in newcastle! Gotta be £70 a tile!!)

As for trotters, we had trotters round our place. Yes, it's hairy, but thats the thrill, is it not. I mean, eventing does nothing for me, but I could watch trotters all day. End of the day, riding knackers horses, whatever discipline you're in!
 
Harper_Gal said:
I'm stunned, shocked and in awe at the blind stupidity on this thread. Everyone claims to have lost tack, dogs, horses and trailers to the Appleby Gypsies, yet NONE of you went to the fair to reclaim your belongings! NONE of you ACTUALLY saw you items stolen by gypsies!
Click to expand...

I know quite a few people who have managed to retrieve items/animals from **** and **** camps. With regards to the fair itself, I'm pretty sure that none of the criminals are stupid enough to take the gear and show it openly in the fair. It's well known that IF any stolen animals are at the fair, they are kept hidden away in trailers/boxes/stables.

I think you should come and live 'en-route' for a few weeks. We have more crime in my valley in these few weeks than the rest of the year put together. It disgusts me that these people have so little/no respect for anything or anyone.

And if the 'real' Gypsies are so bothered by being classed as criminals then maybe they should bloody well do something about it! the criminals live/travel/trade/race with them...

If a member of your family was giving your family a bad name by being involved in criminal activity would you just blast the poor victims and let the criminal carry on???!!!

This sh*t really does make me angry every year. I live in a very nice part of the world, yet for the next few weeks it will be filled with dirty bonfire smoke, rubbish, foul language, excrement and general mess!! As well as poor bedraggled looking, starved, dehydrated horses either tethered or crammed into fields 10 to an acre! For a area that relies heavily on tourism this kind of thing isn't good.

:mad::mad::mad:
 
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I think harper girl you have to be effected in some real way to understand why some people dislike their way of life, I know many types of travellers from the real mocoy to the ones that now dwell in houses. I know what they are about and they are not selling pegs and heather anymore, with camp fires and bow tops.

Some are scrap dealers and they dont care where they get it from, some are horses dealers and they dont care where it came from. Try tracing some of their licences plates on the cars, they offen don,t match the vehicle. And horse passports unless it,s a real stunner that they can brag about some old gypsy horse lines, they never have them.

They want all the benefits the NHS can provide but don,t want to pay tax, one said to me that paying tax was a mugs game and was for the gorjas "house people" to pay. (Rant over and breath)
 
Harper Gal, thanks for pointing out my stupidity. I would just like to point you towards the stupidity of the two "travellers" who each must have been 14 years if that, racing each other with their horse carts up the centre of the High Street here.Overtaking each other - weaving the traffic.

I am upset, angry and know that someone is going to get hurt. probably a horse again. Is that stupid ?? THEY bloody are :mad::mad::mad:.

And I have been at pains to explain I have no problems with true, genuine gypsy folk. How dare you insinuate anything else. I should have know that by starting this thread, I would get grief, as if there isn't enough outside. All I care about is the horses !! sm x
 
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Cuffey said:
AngusOg
The correct ''form'' is to write to your MP who will ask the new Minister for Agriculture and Food Jim Paice your question
You should get a sensible answer as both Ministers have an understanding of farming and country matters

Just a small point Northern Brand and Freezemark also freezebrand horses as well as Farmkey

You can Petition The Prime Minister
http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/
Click to expand...

Thank you...
 
I've been to Appleby fair and I've been to Ballinasloe fair in Galway. It would take great courage to declare at any of these fairs that some horse or item of tack had been stolen and belonged to you. There have been some very wild incidents at horse fairs with shootings (albiet traveller family trouble) and horrendous fighting occuring spontaneously. Only a fool would make accusations in those circumstances, as the police are not that reliable in such company.

There will be much thieving and vandalism associated with the fairs, but not all of it is attributable to the travellers/gypsies. Many bad eggs will take full advantage of the gypos being in town to carry out their own sticky-fingered exploits.
 
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All this fuss about a once a year fair.The illegal camp a couple of fields away has a family so bad they had a TV programe dedicated to them!
Usual case,move in Bank Holiday everything built by the time the council wake up,masses of injunctions ignored for about ten years now and now they have had fencing etc put up for them...why can't they pay for it from the loot they've buried round warwick
 
Given that when my old YO was shot in the face with a high powered catapult and was able to identify the culprit, the police wouldnt go into our local traveller site where he lived and was hiding without both an armed escort and helicopter support (and this was a small official council run gypsy and traveller site), I doubt a five foot nothing HHOer would get very far saying 'excuse me I think you may have half inched this, please may I have it back)...:-)
 
I went to appleby last year for a look and a fewdays away - I quite enjoy it to be honest. feel sorry for you guys that have to live near there mind. IMO the best thieft deterrent for horses is freezemarking..Ted is freezemarked, also postcode all your rugs peope less likely to want to steal them xx
 
At a place I went riding a few years back, the guy running it used to teach some of the traveller kids from the local sites.

The council paid for them to do activities in the summer like riding and cinema trips because it was cheaper than paying for the carnage if they weren't kept occupied – I kid you not.

I had to do some work on the sites too. Even the travellers themselves were terrified of some of the other families. I turned up one morning and all existing the caravans had been destroyed by a rival clan who wanted the site. The local turkey farmer had his farm burnt down (turkeys inside) because he had had a row with one of the families.

I do NOT envy anybody in the vicinity of Appleby.

Good luck.
 
A word of warning for people living near Appleby, we live in Co-Durham and there are a lot of travellers nearby living and passing to the fair, and some of them have Strangles. We are contained to our yard at the moment so we don't catch it, so be on your guard.
 
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