Use of arabs in breeding, sports horse

Oooooh - your horses look fab Rollin. I really like the cleaveland bay x. What a fantastic sort!

Haven't got there yet but have been to a few private farms, including one big private stud that had over 100 mares just out grazing in one pasture. Really lovely to see. The stallions were gorgeous. They had a mix of arab beauty with sportshorse athleticism that really caught my eye. I have always had fond memories of arabs and arab crosses as a child but I do adore my warmbloods and I really surprised myself that I was so taken with some of the shagya's I have seen and riddn over here.

There was little I could fault on this young stallion at the vetting. Wonderful confirmation and movement. Ok not the power and suspension of a warmblood but he made up for it in correctness. He also had a nice temprement - lots of presence and definately a stallion, but kind and easy to handle in just a halter.
 
H & H did a series of famous and successful horses on the inside back page for quite a long time, not just competition horses but hunters, any sort really, and it was very interesting to note that quite a high proportion of them had some Arab not far back in their breeding.
 
Hollycat it was the temperament that got me. I was quite nervous of walking into a stable with a strange stallion but the stud director assured me that none of their stallions would bite or kick - they were so gentle yet full of spirit when trotted up.
 
Well I looked like something out of a 50's sc-fi movie with my protective gear on, there were dogs running about barking and other stallions just meters away and this boy stood like a lamb for his x-rays in just a halter.

As I get older I want a nice moving beautiful horse - but one that is pretty calm and reliable temprement wise. There are lots of nice warmbloods that fit this bill, but I am very taken with the shagya's and you can get fantastic quality at a good price over here (certainly at the moment). I have no ambitions to compete at top level any more. I just want a nice reliable friend that will stay sound and be easy to keep but at the same time that I won't feel is less of a good horse that the really good comp horses I've ridden/owned in the past if that makes sense :)
 
Yes Hollycat that makes perfect sense. I am now an oap and not a brave rider so I do not want to be overhorsed. I have to say riding a Shagya was a bit of a shock after the armchair comfort of a CB though. O'Bajan in particular is so 'slim'.

I am committed to rare breeds also which is why I have CB's and Shagya's. Also both have closed stud books so you know what you are getting. It is a bit of a co-incidence but the Queen helped save the CB and used them in the Royal Mews; the Shagya is often called Royal and Rare because the Imperial Guard of the Haspburgs always rode Shagyas.

I hope you are enjoying Hungary - we found the people very warm and friendly.
 
As we are on the Shagya arabian theme :D

I thought yo might like to see our mare.

She was retired for breeding from competitive endurance racing at 14 sound and is now 17 years old.

Seen here in training

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With her 2008 filly foal.

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Further examples - White Girl by Bajar ex of a Trak mare Wiga so reg as a Trakehner, pulled out of the XC at 1996 Atlanta Olympics. Jaegermeister II a grd son of Gazal & a Bronze Medal winner. Yet when people think of them they dont think PBA, which I think is a shame. There are so many examples & the Shagya has an edge over the Arab as on the whole it is thought a better sports horse type then the Arab. All I know is I have spent months trying to find a decent Arab, AA or even Shagya with size and compeition blood lines & have drawn a blank in the UK. You cant just say there is a nice 16hh Arab, it has to suit the mare in conformation & temperment. So the search goes on.
 
magic104 said:
Further examples - White Girl by Bajar ex of a Trak mare Wiga so reg as a Trakehner, pulled out of the XC at 1996 Atlanta Olympics. Jaegermeister II a grd son of Gazal & a Bronze Medal winner. Yet when people think of them they dont think PBA, which I think is a shame. There are so many examples & the Shagya has an edge over the Arab as on the whole it is thought a better sports horse type then the Arab. All I know is I have spent months trying to find a decent Arab, AA or even Shagya with size and compeition blood lines & have drawn a blank in the UK. You cant just say there is a nice 16hh Arab, it has to suit the mare in conformation & temperment. So the search goes on.
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I also drew a blank in the UK which is why I went to Hungary. When I was looking there had been (as far as I know) only one Shagya Stallion standing in the UK. He was owned by Henri Wynmalen who certainly used him for dressage. HW was awarded a Gold Medal by BHS. The stallion called BASA Shagya XII-3 was the great great grandsire of Aston Answer Milton's Dam. There are photos of him in Rosemary Archer's Book The Versatile Arabian Horse. He must have other progeny in the UK.

There are 20 approved Shayga Stallions in France. The mother stud book is in Germany. You might find this link helpful. www.shagyafrance.fr

Veronigue the website manager speaks English.
 
Alwin Schockemöhle's Rex The Robber, a great icon of the seventies was 50% Arabian and he won the European Silver Medal at Hickstead in 1973. Many of us grew up being inspired by such horses, little knowing at the time that so much Arabian blood was coursing through their veins.
 
My advanced medium dressage horse is a part bred by an Arab stallion out of a TB/Hanoverian mare. He is 16.1hh and looks at first glance like a chunky TB, but then you notice the huge liquid eyes, the little pointy ears and the way he carries his tail. He also has two white hind hooves. I believe he was an intermediate eventer before changing to pure dressage. He is very intelligent and has the most wonderful temperament. He is 25/26 now. Someone else I was "talking" to via the forum said that one of the things against Arabs is the fact that they are often too small for most people, but a part bred/Anglocan overcome that. I also said that we were at Equifest recently and in the ridden class was a 14.3hh 29 year old Cleveland Bay x Arab, still in regular work and really sweet.
 
I think that arab crossed with connemara is an excellent cross for a sports pony. Below are pics of my arab x connemara mare, she show jumped, evented and did dressage so a great all rounder, also a pic of her foal lola this year who is one quarter arab and 3 quarters connemara who will hopefully be a show jumping pony.
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I think that you cant beat a dash of arab in your sports horse.

If you look into the pedigrees of a lot of the German horses you will be surprised how much there is!

I am very proud of the fact that my now deceased AA was graded as a sports horse and also graded into the main trakehner stud book. He carried 50% arab.

We were always very proud of his arab heritage.

Nicky
 
As eventrider has said earlier, Finn Guinness (and his father before him) has always been an enthusiast of using Arabs and AAs in sport horse breeding : it might be worth looking at the Biddenden Stud website to check out Persiflage, who we thought was a cracker when we went to visit, and had a lovely temperement. I think that the Guinnesses also have some Connie X Arab youngstock! But they are a rarity amongst sport horse breeders in the UK (if not unique?) in using their homebred Arab stallions on WB and TB mares to breed for quality, toughness and stamina
 
heres my 6yo pb arab. Her sire was a straight russian arab, who raced, show jumped and showed. Currently we have show jumped, inhand and ridden showing, dressage, portable xc, working hunter, sport horse classes, pleasure rides, . I think the arab influence in the sport horses is the way forward. we have been telling people for years to breed there mares to arabs, with much sceptic. I find they are very talented, easy trained, intelligent, have fantastic jumps, great endurance, athleticism and scope. As well as great temperments and wonderful attitude to work.

dressage
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Show jumping
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showing
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working hunter
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Someone else I was "talking" to via the forum said that one of the things against Arabs is the fact that they are often too small for most people, but a part bred/Anglocan overcome that.

I have heard the same thing, despite them being ridden by grown men in the desert! But if you dont feel comfortable on a smaller horse, it is no consolation. The other myth was Arabs would not go through water, more rider issue then Arab I think. I prefer the PB's & AA's again because I like a taller horse & something a bit wider. Scindian Magic though was about 16hh & his sire Indian Magic 15.3hh which my PB traced back to on the dams side. The bigger Arabs were not popular with most arab purists, a shame because you now dont see many at that height.
 
Those wanting a bigger more substantial arab could do worse than looking at the Bahraini arabs. I absolutely fell in love with Shuwaiman Al Bahrain when we visited the Lees place.
 
EstherYoung said:
Those wanting a bigger more substantial arab could do worse than looking at the Bahraini arabs. I absolutely fell in love with Shuwaiman Al Bahrain when we visited the Lees place.
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Heather Warburton at Whippletree Stud (nr. Manchester) has Bahraini Arabs, she too crossed them with CB's. Interestingly Heather has a CB mare who was 9th in the UK cup competing against Arabs in endurance over 80kms.
 
magic104 said:
I have heard the same thing, despite them being ridden by grown men in the desert!
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The minimum weight (rider and saddle) for an FEI race over here in the desert is 75 kg.

We also have heavy weight races (minimum weight of rider is 75 kg) and I have know arabians under 15 hands carrying over 90 kg for 120 kilometres and achieving speeds averaging 20 - 24 kilometres an hour and more. :eek:
 
WOW! So many gorgeous horses on this thread!

After what cruiseline says about the endurance races I don't feel quite so guilty riding the 16hh shagya mare with my 75kg weight She has never had any problem carrying me even when the weather has been hot. I certainly wouldn't have ridden her if I felt I was too heavy, but she's quite substantial and is actually quite a lot of horse underneath you.

It interesting to note that a common factor in this thread is the age of these arab cross comp horses. So many in their late teens and 20's yet all looking like youngsters and going strong :)

Just wanted to say - yes, really happy here Rollin. Once Hungarian people get to know you and trust you they are incredicbly open and generous :)
 
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Hollycat said:
WOW! So many gorgeous horses on this thread!

After what cruiseline says about the endurance races I don't feel quite so guilty riding the 16hh shagya mare with my 75kg weight She has never had any problem carrying me even when the weather has been hot. I certainly wouldn't have ridden her if I felt I was too heavy, but she's quite substantial and is actually quite a lot of horse underneath you.

It interesting to note that a common factor in this thread is the age of these arab cross comp horses. So many in their late teens and 20's yet all looking like youngsters and going strong :)

Just wanted to say - yes, really happy here Rollin. Once Hungarian people get to know you and trust you they are incredicbly open and generous :)
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Waiting for you to come back on line. Why not start another thread about how you came to be in Hungary and what you are doing. It would be very interesting.

By the way I received a surprise email to my website a couple of months ago from a lady in East Anglia. She had acquired a Shagya mare hacked from Hungary to the UK by two chaps, one a vet. She was looking for a stallion. The mare was an O'Bajan.
 
Our stallion, Incandescent Flame, as a 3 year old at his CHAPS stallion grading. Here he is going over the practice jump. He had NEVER jumped in a jumping lane before. Excuse his winter coat, it was November. By the way, he passed! He is over 82% Arab.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/11327483@N03/3057020106/http://www.flickr.com/people/11327483@N03/

Our Anglo mare, Silverfrost Fantasia, practising at home. She is 50% Arab.
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The new kid on the block, Laguna Flame, jumping in his first competitive class. He is 93.75% Arab.
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My Partbred Arab (50%) Silver Whirlwind has been bred to a variety of mares over the last few years including Warmblood, TB and Irish Sport Horses with bloodlines that include Clover Hill, Cruising, Donauwind and Skippy. Most of these are aged between 2 and 5 years so are yet to compete. Here are some of his older ones, all the below are 25% arab.

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3yr old out of Cruising Grand daughter
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2yr old by Westpoint Quickfire (Quickstar/Fulton) out of Winter Whirlwind by Silver Whirlwind. She is reg 12.5% arab
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Rollin said:
Waiting for you to come back on line. Why not start another thread about how you came to be in Hungary and what you are doing. It would be very interesting.

By the way I received a surprise email to my website a couple of months ago from a lady in East Anglia. She had acquired a Shagya mare hacked from Hungary to the UK by two chaps, one a vet. She was looking for a stallion. The mare was an O'Bajan.
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I may do that tomorrow! Not sure my adventures from lawyer to vet are very interesting though. I did used to be a stuntwoman and bodyguard in LA - possibly sounds quite interesting but in practice not really :D

That is quite some hack!!!!!!!!!
 
Hollycat said:
I may do that tomorrow! Not sure my adventures from lawyer to vet are very interesting though. I did used to be a stuntwoman and bodyguard in LA - possibly sounds quite interesting but in practice not really :D

That is quite some hack!!!!!!!!!
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Well that is what endurance is all about. After all Napoleon hacked all the way to Moscow. (still haven't found out how to use smiley faces). He had a love of Arabs and I am sure that is why they are so popular today in France. The first Cadre Noir instructors have the date 1815 beside their names.
 
PS Hollycat. There is a project for you. Buy a Shagya, ride it home to UK and get us all to sponsor you. Some of us might even join you on the ride.
 
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