Daisy11
Well-Known Member
what is the difference between using equipment to correct a horse to a person using a crop in a uncorrect mannor
i never use one who else doesnt
i never use one who else doesnt
use of crops (whips) regards the martingale debate
- Thread starter Daisy11
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Scarlett
Well-Known Member
can I ask why you have never used one....? are you a NH/parelli type?
I always carry one, I may never use it during a ride but its always there. If I need to use it, I do, I hate seeing people kick kick kick all the time when a tap with a schooling stick would work better.
When I was teaching all my clients would be given a whip to hold and I would instruct them on how to use it, the rule was ask twice with the leg and then back up with the whip if required.
I cant remember the last time I 'smacked' a horse with a stick, its never more then a tap to back up my leg.
I always carry one, I may never use it during a ride but its always there. If I need to use it, I do, I hate seeing people kick kick kick all the time when a tap with a schooling stick would work better.
When I was teaching all my clients would be given a whip to hold and I would instruct them on how to use it, the rule was ask twice with the leg and then back up with the whip if required.
I cant remember the last time I 'smacked' a horse with a stick, its never more then a tap to back up my leg.
zigzag
Well-Known Member
I always carry a schooling whip whether out hacking or schooling, hardly ever use it but useful for backing up your leg when schooling rather than giving unslightly kicks... out hacking a schooling whip is usefull for whacking the top of cars who pass to close....
kerilli
Well-Known Member
i use one very very occasionally. i ride a few horses a day and honestly can't remember the last time i used a whip. however, i always carry one, especially for hacking out (nice long schooling whip stuck out to keep the cars at a distance!), and i carry one for schooling to give a light tap with to enforce the leg aid if the horse ignores it.
for jumping i always carry a short whip. if a horse does a naughty stop or run-out then i will give it a smack, i think it's necessary to teach it that that was wrong, and that naughtiness has repercussions.
but then, i think it's alright to smack a child (once, and not in temper) if the child is persisting in ignoring you and likely to endanger itself, say, but lots of people would disagree with me.
i think jockeys should not be allowed to hit the horses. flash the whip down the side, yes, but not make contact at all.
for jumping i always carry a short whip. if a horse does a naughty stop or run-out then i will give it a smack, i think it's necessary to teach it that that was wrong, and that naughtiness has repercussions.
but then, i think it's alright to smack a child (once, and not in temper) if the child is persisting in ignoring you and likely to endanger itself, say, but lots of people would disagree with me.
i think jockeys should not be allowed to hit the horses. flash the whip down the side, yes, but not make contact at all.
Daisy11
Well-Known Member
Ive never use one cause im against them
I not in anyway parelli or any other type .
but i have seen so many horses that are beaten with they havent responded in any way you should get your horse to work with you not against you .
anyway usage of a whip shape or form is not going to do this
I not in anyway parelli or any other type .
but i have seen so many horses that are beaten with they havent responded in any way you should get your horse to work with you not against you .
anyway usage of a whip shape or form is not going to do this
MizElz
Well-Known Member
Whether or not I carry one tends to vary. When I was jumping, I had a very short little whip that I always carried; it just used to help keep Ellie straight. She could be known to be a bit spooky and a tap on the neck - that's all it ever was - was all she ever needed to keep her going forwards. Dont think I ever used it behind the saddle though - she never needed it.
I occasionally use a schooling whip now we've started doing a bit of dressage; again, it is there only to back up my leg aid; I dont think I have ever 'hit' a horse with a schooling whip - that's not what they are for. Also if we are out on the roads I sometimes carry it, for if she's being a bit silly with traffic, again, it can help to keep her straight if she is being resistant to my legs. I would hate to be the kind of rider who depends on a whip though
I honestly prefer not to carry a whip when hacking. As many will no doubt remember, I caused a wee bit of controversy with my post regarding an incident where Ellie had refused to cross a part of a road where a stream previously ran; she was digging her heels in and refusing to budge, and, because this put us in a dangerous position (i.e. stuck in the middle of the road with oncoming traffic approaching), I broke off a stick from a nearby hedge and had to use this to get her going forward. For some reason she was being particularly stubborn that day (we have since crossed that road many, many times with no problems), and I had to smack her quite hard to get her going forwards, and to get us out of the way of the traffic. Whether this was right or wrong is irrelevant now - I acted in the heat of the moment to keep us both safe - but it did show me that sometimes, carrying a whip on a somewhat quirky horse is perhaps more sensible than not. That said, I still do not take one every time; I dont like to think that I will need to use one, as when I go out for a hack it is nice to think that there will be no need for discipline!
I dont believe that whips are cruel, unless used in an innappropriate way. The same could be said for anything or any gadget in the horse world!
I occasionally use a schooling whip now we've started doing a bit of dressage; again, it is there only to back up my leg aid; I dont think I have ever 'hit' a horse with a schooling whip - that's not what they are for. Also if we are out on the roads I sometimes carry it, for if she's being a bit silly with traffic, again, it can help to keep her straight if she is being resistant to my legs. I would hate to be the kind of rider who depends on a whip though
I honestly prefer not to carry a whip when hacking. As many will no doubt remember, I caused a wee bit of controversy with my post regarding an incident where Ellie had refused to cross a part of a road where a stream previously ran; she was digging her heels in and refusing to budge, and, because this put us in a dangerous position (i.e. stuck in the middle of the road with oncoming traffic approaching), I broke off a stick from a nearby hedge and had to use this to get her going forward. For some reason she was being particularly stubborn that day (we have since crossed that road many, many times with no problems), and I had to smack her quite hard to get her going forwards, and to get us out of the way of the traffic. Whether this was right or wrong is irrelevant now - I acted in the heat of the moment to keep us both safe - but it did show me that sometimes, carrying a whip on a somewhat quirky horse is perhaps more sensible than not. That said, I still do not take one every time; I dont like to think that I will need to use one, as when I go out for a hack it is nice to think that there will be no need for discipline!
I dont believe that whips are cruel, unless used in an innappropriate way. The same could be said for anything or any gadget in the horse world!
Daisy11
Well-Known Member
it all comes to apoint that you can carry one but not beat a horse with it ive seen so many people do this and they think its a good sorce of punishment and its not it just makes the horse nerves
SilverSkye
Well-Known Member
When schooling or hacking i always carry a schooling whip, and i am more than happy to use it if its needed, out hacking i often encounter objects or things that my horse is unsure of and find with the schooling whip i can use it to back my leg up and keep my horse going forward. The same goes with schooling if she is not responding to my leg i use the whip. In honesty think it is far kinder than thumping away at my horses sides with my legs. I also find a whip usefull for moving dangling branches, pulling gates that are just out of reach.
I dont believe whips should be used inappropriately but dont have any problems with them being used as an aid when riding or handling.
I dont believe whips should be used inappropriately but dont have any problems with them being used as an aid when riding or handling.
bex1984
Well-Known Member
I usually have one, whether hacking or in the school. I very rarely use it out hacking, but take a schooling whip, mainly because having it sticking out a bit seems to encourage drivers to keep their distance.
I used to use it a lot more in the school, but now it's quite rare for me to actually need it. Murphy can be a bit lazy, so I tend to squeeze, kick, pony club kick, and then if he's still not listening, give him a tap behind my leg. I sometime rest it on his inside shoulder if he's cutting corners, and he used to get a tap on his outside shoulder if he pull sideways towards the gate (but he doesn't really do that anymore).
I can't see anything wrong with the use of a whip if it's used with care - but it shouldn't be used to "lash out" in anger.
I used to use it a lot more in the school, but now it's quite rare for me to actually need it. Murphy can be a bit lazy, so I tend to squeeze, kick, pony club kick, and then if he's still not listening, give him a tap behind my leg. I sometime rest it on his inside shoulder if he's cutting corners, and he used to get a tap on his outside shoulder if he pull sideways towards the gate (but he doesn't really do that anymore).
I can't see anything wrong with the use of a whip if it's used with care - but it shouldn't be used to "lash out" in anger.
DiablosGold
Well-Known Member
I use one, and don't see that it is cruel.
I think it is cruel to abuse them, just like anything!
I think it is cruel to abuse them, just like anything!
Super_Kat
Well-Known Member
Always carry hardly use.
MizElz
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
it all comes to apoint that you can carry one but not beat a horse with it ive seen so many people do this and they think its a good sorce of punishment and its not it just makes the horse nerves
[/ QUOTE ]
I quite agree, and I can honestly say I have never carried any whip on any horse with the intention of 'beating it'. Punishment is a funny thing with horses; it is difficult to define the boundaries, but I know that in the past, any pony or horse I have ridden who has purposefully disobeyed me - and I mean being really naughty - has only ever had one or two smacks on the bum to show them that their behaviour will not be tolerated. I saw a recent Grand National winning jockey who used to be a show jumper beat a mare at Hickstead once; he had got her slightly wrong at a big oxer - a game horse may have attempted it, but she stopped - and he whipped her so hard that she began to pee in fear
I couldnt believe that the stewards let him get away with it.
Also my mum, who has run many of our local shows, has always pulled up anyone she sees who is using the whip inappropriately.
On the other hand, there are some ponies and horses who simply go better if the rider is carrying a whip - I have had two that have been this way. It's like they respect the rider more - you dont have to hit them, they are just aware that they may well be disciplined if they step out of line. There are also some horses who will never tolerate a whip within their sight - my poor boy Mickey was just like this.
it all comes to apoint that you can carry one but not beat a horse with it ive seen so many people do this and they think its a good sorce of punishment and its not it just makes the horse nerves
[/ QUOTE ]
I quite agree, and I can honestly say I have never carried any whip on any horse with the intention of 'beating it'. Punishment is a funny thing with horses; it is difficult to define the boundaries, but I know that in the past, any pony or horse I have ridden who has purposefully disobeyed me - and I mean being really naughty - has only ever had one or two smacks on the bum to show them that their behaviour will not be tolerated. I saw a recent Grand National winning jockey who used to be a show jumper beat a mare at Hickstead once; he had got her slightly wrong at a big oxer - a game horse may have attempted it, but she stopped - and he whipped her so hard that she began to pee in fear
Also my mum, who has run many of our local shows, has always pulled up anyone she sees who is using the whip inappropriately.
On the other hand, there are some ponies and horses who simply go better if the rider is carrying a whip - I have had two that have been this way. It's like they respect the rider more - you dont have to hit them, they are just aware that they may well be disciplined if they step out of line. There are also some horses who will never tolerate a whip within their sight - my poor boy Mickey was just like this.
MizElz
Well-Known Member
Ischa - can I just ask why you have now changed the title and the purpose of the thread?
suzyseymour
Well-Known Member
A whip is just an aid like any other, all aids can be miss used. As long as you know you will use it correctly then its not a problem. My old mare is very whip shy, her previous owner got her as a 4yr old from a dealer who I assume backed her and beat her so I have never lunged her with a whip and rarely rode her with a whip, but when I was at college they managed to miss use her rubber snaffle so much it split her mouth open. So it's not just the whip that causes problems.
I always ride my yourgster with one and give her a tap with it to back up m leg where necessary. But have never beaten her with it and she sees it the same as me using my legs or reigns.
I always ride my yourgster with one and give her a tap with it to back up m leg where necessary. But have never beaten her with it and she sees it the same as me using my legs or reigns.
deicinmerlyn
Well-Known Member
I normally carry a whip but very rarely use it. A whip should be used to back up leg aids or a tap as a reminder. Never to beat a horse.
Nothing wrong with that in my opinion and horses KNOW, so unless a horse has had the whip used incorrectly and as a result is terrified of them no reason not to. Most horses are not afraid of their rider carrying a whip.
Nothing wrong with that in my opinion and horses KNOW, so unless a horse has had the whip used incorrectly and as a result is terrified of them no reason not to. Most horses are not afraid of their rider carrying a whip.
Daisy11
Well-Known Member
yer sorry i put it wrong on the post i think people we getting the wrong purpose i put it in a wrong way what i ment by it is that people say about the equipment and how wrong it is but whats the difference between this and someone using a crop in a wrong mannor cause noone seems to debate whips thats all sorry to mix you up
MizElz
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
yer sorry i put it wrong on the post i think people we getting the wrong purpose i put it in a wrong way what i ment by it is that people say about the equipment and how wrong it is but whats the difference between this and someone using a crop in a wrong mannor cause noone seems to debate whips thats all sorry to mix you up
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh we have had the whip debate many a time, believe me!
yer sorry i put it wrong on the post i think people we getting the wrong purpose i put it in a wrong way what i ment by it is that people say about the equipment and how wrong it is but whats the difference between this and someone using a crop in a wrong mannor cause noone seems to debate whips thats all sorry to mix you up
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh we have had the whip debate many a time, believe me!
TGM
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
noone seems to debate whips thats all sorry to mix you up
[/ QUOTE ] I can assure you that use of the whip has been debated many times (and often quite heatedly) on this forum!
I think you are trying to ask what is the difference between people using gadgets incorrectly and harshly and people using whips to beat horses. Personally, I think both scenarios are as bad as each other!
Personally, I always carry a whip when I ride, but never use it to beat my horse with it! She is rather a lazy character, so I sometimes give her a tap to reinforce my leg aid.
I don't use martingales, draw reins etc either, although I did use a loose running martingale on her when first broken - firstly to provide me with a neck strap, and secondly, because initially she had a tendency to fling her head up and I wanted to avoid a broken nose!
noone seems to debate whips thats all sorry to mix you up
[/ QUOTE ] I can assure you that use of the whip has been debated many times (and often quite heatedly) on this forum!
I think you are trying to ask what is the difference between people using gadgets incorrectly and harshly and people using whips to beat horses. Personally, I think both scenarios are as bad as each other!
Personally, I always carry a whip when I ride, but never use it to beat my horse with it! She is rather a lazy character, so I sometimes give her a tap to reinforce my leg aid.
I don't use martingales, draw reins etc either, although I did use a loose running martingale on her when first broken - firstly to provide me with a neck strap, and secondly, because initially she had a tendency to fling her head up and I wanted to avoid a broken nose!
Daisy11
Well-Known Member
sorry to go on about it couldnt work out why people had never menshioned the whips before and everyone thinks that aid equipment is cruel when all it does is correct a horse.
If its used in a correct mannor there should be no problem.
Its the same with crops these can be narsty if used in a wrong mannor but can be ok if used propley thats all.
If its used in a correct mannor there should be no problem.
Its the same with crops these can be narsty if used in a wrong mannor but can be ok if used propley thats all.
Tinkerbee
Well-Known Member
Always carry one, rarely use
Many incidents on roads have been averted from having a whip with me, as my ickle legs are basically useless when trying to stop a stroppy cob swinging her arse into cars
Many incidents on roads have been averted from having a whip with me, as my ickle legs are basically useless when trying to stop a stroppy cob swinging her arse into cars
minkymoo
Well-Known Member
I have to be honest, I don't even carry a whip. The loan horse I rode was terrified of them and I have just never carried one.
I don't carry one with K either. I suppose I am worried about his reaction & getting bucked off if I did use it...
I don't think I would use one with him, but it would be useful in backing up my leg aid as I don't want him to become dead to my leg... Might get someone else to ride him with one first!!
I don't carry one with K either. I suppose I am worried about his reaction & getting bucked off if I did use it...
I don't think I would use one with him, but it would be useful in backing up my leg aid as I don't want him to become dead to my leg... Might get someone else to ride him with one first!!
Solstar
Well-Known Member
I don't carry one unless Im hunting or Jumping.
_April_
Well-Known Member
I use a schooling whip to reinforce my legs aids... it works very well on my lazy horse.
She has learnt that if she goes off of my legs properly the whip is never used.
I carry a crop when hacking and jumping incase she naps.
She respects me more when I carry one but I don't use it unless she is being naughty. She is an older, very opinionated mare and I know when she is taking the mickey out of me.
On the other hand, once when she was bucking when I tried to canter I knew her well enough to know that she was unwell so stopped straight away and got off. There is a fine line!
I would never use a crop in anger
ETS - She is also in a snaffle and I don't use any 'gadgets'. Mostly because i wouldn't know how to and I wouldn't just stick something on my horse without being taught how and understanding the theory.
She has learnt that if she goes off of my legs properly the whip is never used.
I carry a crop when hacking and jumping incase she naps.
She respects me more when I carry one but I don't use it unless she is being naughty. She is an older, very opinionated mare and I know when she is taking the mickey out of me.
On the other hand, once when she was bucking when I tried to canter I knew her well enough to know that she was unwell so stopped straight away and got off. There is a fine line!
I would never use a crop in anger
ETS - She is also in a snaffle and I don't use any 'gadgets'. Mostly because i wouldn't know how to and I wouldn't just stick something on my horse without being taught how and understanding the theory.
Apalacia01
Well-Known Member
I never carry one actually - pony used to hate them and when you pick one up she goes very wizzy...should really try again as really useful to reinforce legs.
Daisy11
Well-Known Member
your probley find she was beaten with one if she acts likes this
Nailed
Well-Known Member
I ride Ted with spurs instead of a whip.
He is an ex-race horse who is tense when a whip is present, and not when spurs are there, i think that using spurs is less invasive and less stressful in this situation.
Any artificial aid, used in moderation, have there uses and are not cruel.
lou x
He is an ex-race horse who is tense when a whip is present, and not when spurs are there, i think that using spurs is less invasive and less stressful in this situation.
Any artificial aid, used in moderation, have there uses and are not cruel.
lou x
BeckyD
Well-Known Member
I'm in agreement with all Kerilli's points - I always carry a schooling whip, or when I'm jumping then a short stick. It's a comfort to know it's there and when schooling i find a little tickle can make the difference between being listened to fully and being ignored.
However, I have had to use my schooling whip on my youngster, and in a manner that I found quite harsh (encouraged by my trainer). At the time I was shocked but thought she was far wiser than I so I went along with it. Afterwards I couldn't stop crying, I felt terrible. It was all because I'd allowed him to become very dead to my leg, and he wouldn't go forwards - even with a hefty thwack from the whip he only flicked an ear. So I was told to ask gently with my leg, and if he didn't respond then to flick him with it quickly one, two or three times until he moved forwards, then pat and reward. After two schooling sessions of that he was going forwards from me even thinking forwards, and seems to have no lasting ill effects and he's still not bothered about whips at all, bless him - they're just something else for him to chew. So no harm done after all, despite my fears.
However, I have had to use my schooling whip on my youngster, and in a manner that I found quite harsh (encouraged by my trainer). At the time I was shocked but thought she was far wiser than I so I went along with it. Afterwards I couldn't stop crying, I felt terrible. It was all because I'd allowed him to become very dead to my leg, and he wouldn't go forwards - even with a hefty thwack from the whip he only flicked an ear. So I was told to ask gently with my leg, and if he didn't respond then to flick him with it quickly one, two or three times until he moved forwards, then pat and reward. After two schooling sessions of that he was going forwards from me even thinking forwards, and seems to have no lasting ill effects and he's still not bothered about whips at all, bless him - they're just something else for him to chew. So no harm done after all, despite my fears.
jesterfaerie
Well-Known Member
I ALWAYS carry a whip but only use it when I have to.
Honeypots
Well-Known Member
I will use a crop/schooling whip to reinforce my leg aids if necessary NEVER to punish.
Daisy11
Well-Known Member
you may get away with it lightly know but after a period of time you may not be so lucky
it should not be used in this mannor even if he is playing up maybe you should find out why he isnt going forward and if it is down to being naughty
try to possibly find a kinder way to encorage him forward .
but in no way should you use this kind of punishment
it should not be used in this mannor even if he is playing up maybe you should find out why he isnt going forward and if it is down to being naughty
try to possibly find a kinder way to encorage him forward .
but in no way should you use this kind of punishment