Using your leg on a sharp horse

[LeannePip]

My 4yo has just come back from her winter holibobs and is razor sharp and loving life! I'll try and give as much detail as possible, so apologies if its long;

Before her holiday she was going nicely, fairly sharp off my leg but for the most part I could use them as needed for cornering, circling, altering pace, forward back and beginning to ask for a couple of sideways steps. It's still early days, she's been in for 2 weeks, lunged 4 times the 1st week and was perfect, then i've sat on her 4 times this last week. I doubt the awful weather we are having at the moment is helping but she is super sharp and just on forward forward forward the whole time, every use of the leg either gets more forward or a huge explosion, which can be quite fun . . .

I don't want to dampen this forward attitude, but i do need to use my leg without such a reaction!

I'm starting off with lots of walk/ halt transitions, changes of directions which are ok, downwards transitions can be a bit 'extreme' initially and you'd think i was socking her in the gob each time, but really i'm not! i think its because i can't use as much leg as i need too - but this does improve! but once i move up into trot things get interesting, i tried following the trot/walk transitions routine but found this makes things worse and just coils the spring further. So i pick up trot which is fiery to begin with then work on stretching her neck down as she otherwise gets tense and curls back around the bit, stay on a figure of 8 stitching down once she's relaxed i then pick the reins up a little bit and then ask for some forward and back and if there is no explosion with this, i usually walk her off and call it a day, this is about 20mins total.

What else can i be doing at this stage to help her accept my leg is there and not going anywhere? Today we ended up cantering down the drive way because i put my leg on for a sideways step, she took this as canter and hugely objected to me trying to ask her to walk again!

Before her holiday i had weekly lessons however not due to start these up again until the new year.

Thanks and TK Max chocolate orange truffles if you got this far!

 

[PorkChop]

Similar but different youngster just back in work - glad its not just me!

Keep thinking ... what has happened to my quiet 4 year old well mine is always going to be a bit sharp, which is what I want but she has come back into work a monkey

I have always been taught to ask for lateral movement or a bend with my leg with a horse that is over reacting to it, but I see this isn't working.

Mine isn't being too sharp off the leg but like you, once into trot things can get interesting - not being helped by the weather.

I am a bit OCD about conditioning their legs, so as it wasn't safe to hack in walk I have long reined in walk for several weeks. She has been in the school to test the waters in trot again, so I literally am doing 5 mins of trot, but once I start trotting I am making her work, or else she will take advantage.

Sounds to me like you are doing all the right things, just stick at it, little and often

 

[AdorableAlice]

I vaguely remember reading a Carl Hester book that had advice on super sensitive horses. Shame I can't remember which book it was ! It did go to Hartpury for one of his evenings and he always buys super sensitive types and then teaches them to accept the leg. It was a simple as leg on and only off when the horse accepts it being there. The reward being the release and the power being used.

Easy peasey if you are Carl Hester, for mere mortals a tad more tricky. I will have a rummage in the book case.

 

[LeannePip]

Similar but different youngster just back in work - glad its not just me!

Keep thinking ... what has happened to my quiet 4 year old well mine is always going to be a bit sharp, which is what I want but she has come back into work a monkey

I have always been taught to ask for lateral movement or a bend with my leg with a horse that is over reacting to it, but I see this isn't working.

Mine isn't being too sharp off the leg but like you, once into trot things can get interesting - not being helped by the weather.

I am a bit OCD about conditioning their legs, so as it wasn't safe to hack in walk I have long reined in walk for several weeks. She has been in the school to test the waters in trot again, so I literally am doing 5 mins of trot, but once I start trotting I am making her work, or else she will take advantage.

Sounds to me like you are doing all the right things, just stick at it, little and often

Thanks so glad its not just me! I do want her a bit sharp but this is verging on ridiculous, everyones happy if i ride round with my leg off completely but I'm conscious of not doing this as otherwise she will never get over it and i'll just cause more problems further down the line!

i can't hack too much at the moment due to the daylight but like you want to get the road work conditioning in, luckily the drive way is 0.7miles long so today i did 4 laps up and down, mostly in walk; lots of transitions to begin with, then bits of trot, then some leg yielding. I plan to do this once a week at the moment

 

[NiceNeverNaughty]

i have a 5 year old like this, he is new to me so I didn’t start him. Ive been getting some help from an instructor though and she has had me keep everything in walk for a couple of weeks and on circles, small circles, big circles, spirals in and out and working on transitions within the walk on the these circles using my core, seat and hips. I keep my legs fairly neutral to start with and also try to keep a loose rein, every session we have done he is more rideable and accepts my leg earlier in the session so I would say it is definitely helping. We then moved up to do the same in trot, transitions within the pace on circles/spirals . I’m aware I dont want to do much with a young horse on circles so we do keep sessions short. What is your horse like in the contact? I also found that the rush forward off my leg was counteracted by giving away the contact and making sure I do a lot of give and re-takes on inside/outside rein to encourage self balance.

 

[Tnavas]

Winter - cold - sharper - older - stronger - sharper.

Keep leg softly around/against the horses sides all the time, work in trot and slow your rising to slow the speed, means that you don't have to hang onto the mouth to control speed, with the speed controllable you can also then actually use your legs to indicate turns etc.

 

[EQUIDAE]

There's a reason they back in summer and turn away over winter to mature

 

[rachk89]

Yeah agree with others just keep the leg on and only release when she accepts it's ok. Goes against every human instinct though so might be difficult. Maybe try lunging her before riding her too that might help but she might just be too sensitive for that to make a difference.

 

[LeannePip]

Thanks for all the input, comforting to know i seem to be heading in the right direction and not too far off course. She's just had the two best months of the winter out getting fat and hairy and i'm super happy with the way she's come back, she's grown and filled out loads despite being naked and on nothing other than grass, but now the rain has hit the field is too wet to leave her out, hence she's back!

i don't think lunging before will help much as she's an angel to lunge so wouldn't get much out of her, although it might just take the edge off? i'll give it a go!

 

[PorkChop]

Just to add I have taught mine to slow/stop off a neck strap - ok, when they think they are Valegro its effect is lessened but might help a little!

 

[Cortez]

Just put your leg on and tell her/him to get on with it.

 

[shortstuff99]

Just put your leg on and tell her/him to get on with it.

pretty much what I do with my hot horse. Always have the leg on and just vary the strength of 'on'. This does not mean kicking. Taking the leg on and off is what will get the over reaction.

 

[nikkimariet]

Just put your leg on and tell her/him to get on with it.

Lol. Basically!!!

Sharp horse = leg on

Lazy horse = leg off

 

[LeannePip]

Sharp horse = leg on

Lazy horse = leg off

Thanks guys, i'd worked out this much but was more looking for exercises to work on this. Realistically if all i did was left my leg on until she stopped i'd be galloping around the arena until the new year!

 

[Cortez]

Thanks guys, i'd worked out this much but was more looking for exercises to work on this. Realistically if all i did was left my leg on until she stopped i'd be galloping around the arena until the new year!

No, you wouldn't, because having the leg "on" the horse is not the same as using the leg, and that is what the horse needs to understand. And the only way to explain it to the horse is to do it, and correct any misinterpretation or over reaction as it happens.

 

[gunnergundog]

Thanks guys, i'd worked out this much but was more looking for exercises to work on this. Realistically if all i did was left my leg on until she stopped i'd be galloping around the arena until the new year!

A holding/supporting leg and a driving leg are two totally different things. Horse has to learn the difference and the fact that the leg remains there regardless

 

[LeannePip]

No, you wouldn't, because having the leg "on" the horse is not the same as using the leg, and that is what the horse needs to understand. And the only way to explain it to the horse is to do it, and correct any misinterpretation or over reaction as it happens.

Cortez I hoped a poster of your experience would be able to give better insight rather than 'tell her to get on with it' because i'm not actually sure how you achieve this! At the moment she's extremely sensitive, whether its the clip/ the weather/ her age i don't care because i can't change any of it! Since her holiday any and all leg means forward and i was looking for help to over come this having already admitted i know that the problem is she isn't 100% accepting of my leg.

At the moment leaving my leg on gets an almost panicked/ rushing reaction but i'm hoping that involving more exercises that get her to respond to my leg in a positive way and avoiding this panicked reaction will overcome this problem and i will then be able to leave it on all the time, at the moment it just causes panic and upset.

But i've booked a lesson for Friday so hopefully i can start to get this resolved.

 

[NiceNeverNaughty]

Cortez I hoped a poster of your experience would be able to give better insight rather than 'tell her to get on with it' because i'm not actually sure how you achieve this! At the moment she's extremely sensitive, whether its the clip/ the weather/ her age i don't care because i can't change any of it! Since her holiday any and all leg means forward and i was looking for help to over come this having already admitted i know that the problem is she isn't 100% accepting of my leg.

At the moment leaving my leg on gets an almost panicked/ rushing reaction but i'm hoping that involving more exercises that get her to respond to my leg in a positive way and avoiding this panicked reaction will overcome this problem and i will then be able to leave it on all the time, at the moment it just causes panic and upset.

But i've booked a lesson for Friday so hopefully i can start to get this resolved.

this is why i replied as i did, the advice i have comes from an extremely experienced RI, the best I have been to in over 30 years. Telling a horse like mine to ‘get on with it’ would result in a complete breakdown. Ive actually seen this time and time again. I used to own a mare a little like this and when I sold her I told the people who bought her that you had to psychologically work with her and for the first ten mins in the school you could not put any pressure on at all. they didn’t listen, got an RI who said just to get on it and ride it and tell it to bl**dy well get on with the job. What has resulted is a very tense, hot horse who has never once gone as sweetly and nicely as she did for me. I won several prelim leagues with her, not any high level of course but the horse was relaxed and went nicely and was ‘rideable’! I’m also not under any illusions that Im even a decent rider. The issue is a psychological one, he is tense and he is sharp in the mind. The exercises my RI gave me allow me gradually wrap my leg round and not only make him physically rideable but mentally rideable. I already have a much more relaxed horse, he will always be sharp however I can now get on and begin to use my leg almost from the go get in the school, without a negative reaction.

 

[rachk89]

I do hate it when people say get on with it. Been told that many times by people who have major issues of their own and the advice isn't helpful anyway. Easy to say not easy to do.

 

[EQUIDAE]

'Getting on with it' doesn't always work - it certainly doesn't with my sec D. Apply the leg too hard and he will cow kick out - he really objects to it to start with. He's getting better with plenty of desensitisation but an instructor who tried to ride him through it got handstands (he's been fully investigated spine/limbs/ulcers/tack - all clear).

 

[shortstuff99]

I think it depends on your definition of 'getting on with it'. I don't take it to mean beating or forcing a horse to do it, I take it to mean asking the horse and then correcting the error and then re-asking and then praising if correct. Not making a big deal of it, not having to start asking in millions of different ways. Asking the horse to respond correctly. In the OP issue I would have my leg 'on' (not kicking) and then correct the speed with my seat (and keep correcting) while doing spirals in and out and other lateral work so the horse starts to understand keg doesn't always equal speed.

 

[EQUIDAE]

I think it depends on your definition of 'getting on with it'. I don't take it to mean beating or forcing a horse to do it, I take it to mean asking the horse and then correcting the error and then re-asking and then praising if correct. Not making a big deal of it, not having to start asking in millions of different ways. Asking the horse to respond correctly. In the OP issue I would have my leg 'on' (not kicking) and then correct the speed with my seat (and keep correcting) while doing spirals in and out and other lateral work so the horse starts to understand keg doesn't always equal speed.

Perfect aids there for my horse's ejector seat...

 

[shortstuff99]

So using your seat to control your horse makes him eject you? I think you're still mistaking what leg on means. It's not asking the horse to go forwards it's using it as a guide for your horse and if he over reacts you use your seat to correct him! That is normal aids....and if your horse can't understand that then you need to teach him, they will pick it up very quick and if you can't ever then you will struggle with dressage full stop. It's basic schooling really. And the lateral work will show them how to accept a leg without speed.

 

[Cortez]

So using your seat to control your horse makes him eject you? I think you're still mistaking what leg on means. It's not asking the horse to go forwards it's using it as a guide for your horse and if he over reacts you use your seat to correct him! That is normal aids....and if your horse can't understand that then you need to teach him, they will pick it up very quick and if you can't ever then you will struggle with dressage full stop. It's basic schooling really. And the lateral work will show them how to accept a leg without speed.

^^^ exactly.

 

[nikkimariet]

No, you wouldn't, because having the leg "on" the horse is not the same as using the leg, and that is what the horse needs to understand. And the only way to explain it to the horse is to do it, and correct any misinterpretation or over reaction as it happens.

So using your seat to control your horse makes him eject you? I think you're still mistaking what leg on means. It's not asking the horse to go forwards it's using it as a guide for your horse and if he over reacts you use your seat to correct him! That is normal aids....and if your horse can't understand that then you need to teach him, they will pick it up very quick and if you can't ever then you will struggle with dressage full stop. It's basic schooling really. And the lateral work will show them how to accept a leg without speed.

Yep!

 

[EQUIDAE]

You miss my point - leg on to a sensitive horse has to be taught. The aids described are what you would use for a horse already accepting of the aids. To miss out the desentsitisation and teaching is counter productive. Yes leg on, seat aids and lateral work will work with a hot, but accepting, horse, but to do so with a horse who objects to the leg is counterproductive.

I don't think anyone who has trained a horse like this would suggest just getting on with it regardless. To do so is just going to result in a tense and unhappy horse.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Aside from the ridden issues, is there anything in her management that you could tweak to calm her down to help matters in the short term? Feed (less of), turnout (more of) etc.

 

[FlyingCircus]

You miss my point - leg on to a sensitive horse has to be taught. The aids described are what you would use for a horse already accepting of the aids. To miss out the desentsitisation and teaching is counter productive. Yes leg on, seat aids and lateral work will work with a hot, but accepting, horse, but to do so with a horse who objects to the leg is counterproductive.

I don't think anyone who has trained a horse like this would suggest just getting on with it regardless. To do so is just going to result in a tense and unhappy horse.

The suggested is EXACTLY what me and my instructor are working on with my very sensitive from the leg gelding...
If you don't get on with it and keep your leg on, how do you propose you desensitize your horse to your leg otherwise?

 

[Cortez]

You miss my point - leg on to a sensitive horse has to be taught. The aids described are what you would use for a horse already accepting of the aids. To miss out the desentsitisation and teaching is counter productive. Yes leg on, seat aids and lateral work will work with a hot, but accepting, horse, but to do so with a horse who objects to the leg is counterproductive.

I don't think anyone who has trained a horse like this would suggest just getting on with it regardless. To do so is just going to result in a tense and unhappy horse.

I have trained many, many horses which were frightened of leg pressure; none ended up tense or unhappy. What made them tense, unhappy and frightened of the leg in the first place was poor training, poor/uneducated riding and timid handling. Leg aids have to be taught to every horse. If you don't want to hear how to solve the problem, don't ask.

 

[PolarSkye]

No, you wouldn't, because having the leg "on" the horse is not the same as using the leg, and that is what the horse needs to understand. And the only way to explain it to the horse is to do it, and correct any misinterpretation or over reaction as it happens.

Correct - but I think what the OP and others would like to know is HOW to correct the misinterpretation and/or over reaction. I would say with the seat, but I don't want to put words in your mouth .

P