UV sensitivity

[maya2008]

I’ve had horses do similar things as a reaction to something they are eating. Problems developed, vets stumped, moved grazing and problems magically disappeared! You’ve recently moved from your own land and this is the first summer where you are - something in the grazing maybe?

 

[Ossy2]

What age did yours start?
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About 9. The equilibrium ride in mask and/ or fly mask in field Was enough to control it initially but she was an eventer and I didn’t think any to jump in the mask and eventually you could ride and certainly not jump with no face mask on.
It’s a bit of trial and error with how best to manage it. If yours is good with a mask that extends down to say where a nose band would sit, it could be providing relief to the facial nerves as much as the eyes. Have you tried goggles yet or just a mask, be interesting to see if he is better with goggles that do only cover the eyes.

 

[ycbm]

Goggles arrive Tuesday. I've bought them partly because i want to jump and don't want to do that with any restriction of vision. In the meantime I'm going to try a mask with no nose fringe which will remove the counter-irritant effect that you see with nose nets. Then I'll cut out the ears too and see what happens then.
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[ycbm]

I had a half appaloosa that developed night blindness.

The hereditary version needs a gene from each parent, you were very unlucky and I hope I don't have similar luck!
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[Esmae]

The hereditary version needs a gene from each parent, you were very unlucky and I hope I don't have similar luck!
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It was odd, because I sold him at 3 and there were no problems at that point that were obvious in any way. By the time he was 5 it had developed to a point that made a difference to him. In fact, now I think more carefully he was only 25% Appaloosa, the rest was Arab and there was nothing at all from those lines. I hope that you aren't unlucky and it proves to be something you can do something about.

 

[Barton Bounty]

I also do not have direct experience but a friends horse had an issue like this, lovely big grey ish, Vet said it could be uveitis and suzanne was prepared to take out the eye and she would have made a full recovery. She went to the vet school for the operation and she actually had been having migraines instead, she had a massive tumour on her brain.
I really do hope its nothing serious @ycbm

 

[teapot]

Any harvesting going on near your new yard op?

 

[SatansLittleHelper]

I have a friend who's (now sadly retired) horse is a bad head shaker, she developed these exact same symptoms at 9 years old ?
I don't know alot about the condition if I'm honest but will keep fingers crossed for Ludo that it's something simple to sort.

 

[ycbm]

Any harvesting going on near your new yard op?

Second cut just been done for the haylage in bordering fields, good thought.
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[ycbm]

I also do not have direct experience but a friends horse had an issue like this, lovely big grey ish, Vet said it could be uveitis and suzanne was prepared to take out the eye and she would have made a full recovery. She went to the vet school for the operation and she actually had been having migraines instead, she had a massive tumour on her brain.
I really do hope its nothing serious @ycbm

Ludo doesn't have uveitis, that's a vet emergency. But something I now need to be on standby for. I have asked my vet if I should have some meds in stock just in case.
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[EventingMum]

I had a horse that developed posterior uveitis and headshaking almost simultaneously and I am sure the two were linked. The first sign of a flare-up was his eyelashes starting to point slightly downwards and light sensitivity before any other symptoms showed. Leptospirosis, as you probably know is often associated with it and my horse's blood tests showed he had been exposed to some variants of it in the past. Hopefully, Ludo has nothing like this as it is horrible.

 

[PurBee]

We're only a few miles away PB, but also a lot lower and the UV is much lower down here. Up at the farm all red things bleached pink really quickly and the rest followed.

I will ask what variety of rye they are growing for the haylage thank you. I could swap him onto hay (cut elsewhere) for a trial but I don't like feeding it dry and soaking would be an issue.
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I prefer haylage due to the moisture levels too - quite reassuring to know theyre getting hydration with every mouthful - mine drink far less on haylage than on hay. I’d be damping down hay now if i fed it.

There’s another aspect about ryegrass thats causative for neuro symptoms that starts as mild head shaking, nodding, and can progress to full blown neuro symptoms - this is mostly seen in cattle grazed on ryegrass only pastures, as an obvious attack of illness when weather conditions alter the grass. Its a fungus that is symbiotic with the ryegrass plant and helps it grow, deters bugs eating it, and is reported to be found in a very high % of ryegrass leys. Its also therefore tranferred to hay/lage. There’s endophyte free variety of this that is recommended to grow, as ‘ryegrass sickness/staggers’ is familiar to famers with their herds.
This fungus can cause photosensitisation too - im yet to determine if ryegrass without this fungus causes PS, as the literature itself from various sources doesnt make this absolutely clear, more research needed.

The full blown version of this toxicity is very obvious and symptoms severe, yet i wonder if the initial mild symptoms seen, like head-shaking and nodding, are due to horses having verrry low dose of this in the ryegrass they eat, so they remain at baseline low-level symptoms?

Are any other horses on the yard, particularly white skinned parts, also experiencing these very mild symptoms of PS? That would help you know if the feed is likely causative.

Ive no idea if this endophyte can be tested in the feed, but worth investigating if so.

Here’s a good article about it:

https://equimed.com/diseases-and-conditions/reference/perennial-rygrass-staggers

 

[ycbm]

The forage is sold all over the country, it's a very big supplier. I hope that it would be obvious by now if it was causing issues, but who knows.
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[PurBee]

The forage is sold all over the country, it's a very big supplier. I hope that it would be obvious by now if it was causing issues, but who knows.
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Because these symptoms have such a varied spectrum of symptoms from very mild to severe, depending on individual horse health/genetics/skin tone - its difficult for most to pin-point causation, especially with allergy, mild neuro symptoms where the whole environment has to be assessed as a possible culprit.
Thankfully theres very few truly fully white skinned horses around, mostly dark skin, which i think is the reason we only see mild symptoms and assume its flies bothering them in summer, and everyone just uses a face mask to solve the mild symptom of X cause.

Its seen in cattle much much more - stats of 2 cows in every 100 get affected with ryegrass PS - their larger white skin parts burn and look like bad sweet itch.
Horses mostly have true white skin on face/muzzle/eyes, hence why we see many more burnt muzzles, weeping eyes, shade-loving, and barely any other symptom. Only when liver is impaired will symptoms be more obvious, and those cases in horses, are few, compared to the numbers with muzzle burn, head-shaking mild symptoms.

The batch that caused my grey gelding to have his severe PS episode, was from a large uk reputable company. My full black skinned mare unaffected. Liver health does play an enormous role in whether an animal is affected if mostly dark skinned.
So for horses to have these sudden episodes, its happening, but attributed to other things like generic ‘grass sickness’ or other catch-all diagnosis that no-one can be truly sure of without in-depth post mortem.
Otherwise the symptoms are very mild, affecting the head, easily solved with a fly mask, and we’re none the wiser about true cause, rarely investigate deeper as symptoms are mild, attribute it to flies, pollen etc, because in the winter when uv is naturally lower due to shorter daylight hours, we know there’s no flies, pollen - so believe our horses have some fly sensitivity or pollen allergy. You’re lucky to have noticed it’s when exposed to UV light.

If you can switch forage as a tester for a few months to see if theres improvement that’ll tell you. There’s accumulation of the PSA’s in the system, and will take 3-4 weeks to fully clear. How much white skin does Ludo have? Id expect eyes to weep/swell if pink eyed.

 

[Slightlyconfused]

Goggles arrive Tuesday. I've bought them partly because i want to jump and don't want to do that with any restriction of vision. In the meantime I'm going to try a mask with no nose fringe which will remove the counter-irritant effect that you see with nose nets. Then I'll cut out the ears too and see what happens then.
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Those goggles are so cool.

A girl at my yard has them for her horse and he jumps perfectly fine in them.

 

[ycbm]

I had a horse that developed posterior uveitis and headshaking almost simultaneously and I am sure the two were linked. The first sign of a flare-up was his eyelashes starting to point slightly downwards and light sensitivity before any other symptoms showed. Leptospirosis, as you probably know is often associated with it and my horse's blood tests showed he had been exposed to some variants of it in the past. Hopefully, Ludo has nothing like this as it is horrible.

I didn't know about leptospirosis, I'll go and check that out. Thank you.



ETA leptospirosis commonly caused by exposure to standing water. I taught him to go through water using five stagnant water training ponds about a month ago. Though it should take longer to produce an effect in the eyes, I think I'll get him tested for that and liver enzymes this week.

Gotta love this forum sometimes, thanks everyone!
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[ycbm]

How much white skin does Ludo have?

Masses. He is mottled but large parts of him are pink when he's wet.

You’re lucky to have noticed it’s when exposed to UV light.

I'm pretty observant and when I observe something I'm relentlessly logical in ruling out alternatives. I sometimes visit the paddocks just to watch him. Flies were nowhere in the picture, he rarely has one near him after 3 months of spot on treatment and never on his eyes and rarely round his head. Seasonal allergy is very unlikely but removing the counter irritant of the nose fringe will give more clue about that. I'm convinced, at the moment, without being closed minded, that this is UV. It's also not unexpected with his breeding and at this age.
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[PurBee]

Masses. He is mottled but large parts of him are pink when he's wet.




I'm pretty observant and when I observe something I'm relentlessly logical in ruling out alternatives. I sometimes visit the paddocks just to watch him. Flies were nowhere in the picture, he rarely has one near him after 3 months of spot on treatment and never on his eyes and rarely round his head. Seasonal allergy is very unlikely but removing the counter irritant of the nose fringe will give more clue about that. I'm convinced, at the moment, without being closed minded, that this is UV. It's also not unexpected with his breeding and at this age.
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Despite only mild symptoms currently, due to potential worsening/accumulation if PS from ryegrass or the fungus, or the lepto - getting tested now, and perhaps a forage change to test any improvement will have you nipping it in the bud before any worsening occurs.

 

[KEK]

Do you guys in the UK not have your hay tested against ryegrass toxicity? Here in Australia we test the hay (the growers do).
I hope Ludo gets better YCBM!

 

[ycbm]

He's not ill, that we know of. He's very chirpy. Lots of appaloosa horses have this sort of sensitivity and we have great masks these days. I'll rule out the obvious with a blood test due to the sudden onset and update with the results.
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[ycbm]

Do you guys in the UK not have your hay tested against ryegrass toxicity? Here in Australia we test the hay (the growers do).

I have just read of German study that says we don't have the issues with toxic fungus that you do in Australia, but that it could change with climate change.

There was certainly a lot of ergot around last year.
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[ycbm]

Mmmmm. New data today. He has developed a just about hearable woofle to his breathing, and is rubbing his nose on his knees after being ridden. It seems we possibly have a seasonal allergy going on after all. I'm about to test a mask with no nose fringe, to see if the absence of counter irritation of the nose makes the mask work less well.
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[Sossigpoker]

Mmmmm. New data today. He has developed a just about hearable woofle to his breathing, and is rubbing his nose on his knees after being ridden. It seems we possibly have a seasonal allergy going on after all. I'm about to test a mask with no nose fringe, to see if the absence of counter irritation of the nose makes the mask work less well.
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Rubbing the nose is a part of head shaking , but it sounds like he's pollen reactive. But if he only rubs the nose after riding , this can indicate discomfort in the jaw.

 

[ycbm]

Vet has been and found no evidence of uveitis but we are testing for liver function. She also found no evidence at all of a seasonal allergy, not the slightest impact on his breathing. She said that uveitis was not caused by leptospirosis in the UK or Europe because the bacteria we have are not the ones which cause it. Leptospirosis covers infection by a range of bacteria, apparently. He had a raised heart rate and he had tension wrinkles in his nose like he had a headache. Those have all gone today and so has the UV sensitivity. Another horse pulled off his mask two days running, no reactions. We had a lovely hack today, very willing.

This may be one of those mysteries which just disappears and you never know the reason. When I get the blood test result I'll update.
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[ycbm]

OK, interesting... the bloods are back. Liver function is fine but there's a raised something or other (I was in Pizza Hut!) which was high enough to show that he has had an acute inflammatory response to something but low enough to mean that he has got over it, especially when you put it together with his current behaviour which has improved each day since the vet visit and is now completely normal.

The UV sensitivity was probably just a headache exacerbated by summer levels of light. It's gone completely now, anyway.

I don't think we're ever going to know what caused this, but I'm really pleased the bloods showed something, but that the something is not something to worry about. It's a much better result than potential trigeminal headshaker!
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[Errin Paddywack]

Thank goodness for good news for once. Very relieved with this update.

 

[teapot]

Hasn’t been stung or bitten anywhere has he @ycbm?

I find stuff like this fascinating, and how they can go from arghhhhh to totally fine so quickly ?

 

[ycbm]

Hasn’t been stung or bitten anywhere has he @ycbm?

I find stuff like this fascinating, and how they can go from arghhhhh to totally fine so quickly ?

He had a vague flybite type diffuse lump on his neck on or near the vein recently but I'm struggling to remember exactly how recently. No more than 4 weeks, could be less.
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[nutjob]

Thanks for updating, pleased for you it's not trigeminal neuralgia.

 

[Barton Bounty]

OK, interesting... the bloods are back. Liver function is fine but there's a raised something or other (I was in Pizza Hut!) which was high enough to show that he has had an acute inflammatory response to something but low enough to mean that he has got over it, especially when you put it together with his current behaviour which has improved each day since the vet visit and is now completely normal.

The UV sensitivity was probably just a headache exacerbated by summer levels of light. It's gone completely now, anyway.

I don't think we're ever going to know what caused this, but I'm really pleased the bloods showed something, but that the something is not something to worry about. It's a much better result than potential trigeminal headshaker!
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Thats great news @ycbm ?