Vaccinate or not vaccinate? Shetland ponies.

Faracat said:
Sadly there are a lot of idiots out there who do take unnecessary risks with their horse's (and children's) health and not vaccinating for tetanus is just that. Some will get away with it, others won't.
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Children are a bit different because they are vaccinated for contagious diseases with the idea of protecting everyone although there are still parents who refuse vaccinations for their own children on the grounds they think they can be harmful. Tetanus is different as it's not contagious, like I said I have never known a case of it, in the case of bad cuts etc an injection for it is given anyway. It's a personal choice, doesn't make anyone an idiot....
 
Some things are just facts and opinion doesn't enter into it.

The vaccination exists, isn't stupidly expensive and tetanus is horrible and potentially deadly. It's a no brainer.
 
Faracat said:
Some things are just facts and opinion doesn't enter into it.

The vaccination exists, isn't stupidly expensive and tetanus is horrible and potentially deadly. It's a no brainer.
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Bonny doesn't appear to like spending any money on vets for any of her animals Faracat. By her own admission she has a dog who at certain times of year 'looks starved' and reportable, yet refuses to take it to a vet.
 
Thanks for putting that link up BP. I knew I'd read about recent tetanus cases somewhere but couldn't find the link myself.

Sad news re the tetanus case - went down and couldn't rise last night so is now no longer with us.
A salutary lesson on the benefits of vaccinating against this totally preventable disease. The cost is about 1% of the cost of horseshoes. DO IT NOW.
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M - I don't know what to say.
 
Been away googling to try and get some idea of the numbers of horses with tetanus but I have failed apart from Ontario where it's less than 5 a year ! Also been reading on the latest research about vaccinations and how researchers are increasingly thinking we are over vaccinating our animals. Horses and our immune systems work in a similar way, humans are advised to have tetanus every 10 years, very few do, does anyone on here know of anyone contracting tetanus ? The veterinary industry makes a lot of money out of vaccinating horses and pets, people considering whether it's necessary or not are not idiots just because they can think for themselves !
 
Moomin1 said:
Bonny doesn't appear to like spending any money on vets for any of her animals Faracat. By her own admission she has a dog who at certain times of year 'looks starved' and reportable, yet refuses to take it to a vet.
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I have a collie, I've bred generations of the same family, all amazing dogs and the present dog is the last of a line that I've had since I left home. They have all been much loved, worked sheep, done agility and been a big part of my life. The remaining one has been casting her coat and as usual losing weight at the same time, she is old, has done this all her life, twice a year without fail. I posted wondering if anyone knew why as it seems strange to me, that's all. My dog is skinny yes, but does not need to see a vet !
 
bonny said:
I have a collie, I've bred generations of the same family, all amazing dogs and the present dog is the last of a line that I've had since I left home. They have all been much loved, worked sheep, done agility and been a big part of my life. The remaining one has been casting her coat and as usual losing weight at the same time, she is old, has done this all her life, twice a year without fail. I posted wondering if anyone knew why as it seems strange to me, that's all. My dog is skinny yes, but does not need to see a vet !
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Seems to me that if there is a health / welfare consideration that a qualified professional is better placed to give advice than people on an internet forum, a vet would not diagnose without seeing the animal ........ and yes he would charge for his analysis.
I don't recall any local vets giving me much free advice, however I take a precautionary approach to animal care, preferring to regularly spend a small amount than to gamble.
If I found it impossible to pay out £10 per annum for tetanus protection, plus realistic costs for feed, worming, farriery, and teeth rasping and so on, I would have to re think the whole "I am responsible horse owner" scenario.
 
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A couple of points.... firstly the reason we don't see a huge number of documented tetanus cases is BECAUSE of routine vaccination. If nobody vaccinated the incidence would incline dramatically!
Secondly the injection given to unvaccinated animals that cut themselves is actually an antitoxin, which is different to a vaccine. Vaccines prevent disease, the anti-toxin tries to limit the effects of an animal either already infected or potentially infected. It is in no shape or form a suitable alternative.
 
bonny said:
If I was getting two middle aged shetlands I wouldn't vaccinate them.
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against what ?
I think OP should find a good equine vet and take their advice.
I have always had all my horses jabbed for tetanus, and after going through the coughing epidemics of the 1970's I think most people taking horses to places where they meet lots of other horses would also give flu jabs, the reason we don't have flu epidemics is because people keep inoculations against flu up to date.
I don't know any horses which have died, we had 100 to 160 horses per annum in the yard.
 
I don't vaccinate mine for anything. Fortunately we don't have equine flu. All the foals get an antitoxin at birth and when old enough receive a full course of tetanus jabs then only get another tetanus injection when they are injured. The mares get a top up when they are due to foal.

Any animal, or human is susceptible to tetanus as any other. My Cocker Spaniels sire died of tetanus from a cut he got on the beach, let's all vaccinate our dogs for tetanus.

At one time humans, specially those who were involved with horses were vaccinated every three years, now it's suggested that we get an update every ten years. Vets always ask if tetanus jabs have been given and give the right volume if not.
 
Sorry but that's not correct. Horses are much more susceptible to tetanus than dogs.... its actually quite rare in dogs ... you were unfortunately very unlucky :-( so no dogs don't need vaccinating but horses most definitely do. And anti-toxin injections are not the same thing....
 
Tnavas said:
I don't vaccinate mine for anything. Fortunately we don't have equine flu. All the foals get an antitoxin at birth and when old enough receive a full course of tetanus jabs then only get another tetanus injection when they are injured. The mares get a top up when they are due to foal.

Any animal, or human is susceptible to tetanus as any other. My Cocker Spaniels sire died of tetanus from a cut he got on the beach, let's all vaccinate our dogs for tetanus.

At one time humans, specially those who were involved with horses were vaccinated every three years, now it's suggested that we get an update every ten years. Vets always ask if tetanus jabs have been given and give the right volume if not.
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The tetanus vaccines are not all the same, the horse boosters are either 3 or 2 years , its not a question of giving an extra amount, obviously the dosage is related to the mass of the horse.
The danger with relying on anti toxins is that a small wound may be missed or the vet may not be called in time, so it is a high risk strategy, and even if a horse is up to date vet will often administer an anti toxin at the time of injury.
Foals will take some immunity from an injected dam, but I think many vets give an extra one when they examine new foals.
Same thing with humans, yes it used to be annual then 3 years now 10 years, but the vaccines have developed over the years.
 
ann-jen said:
Sorry but that's not correct. Horses are much more susceptible to tetanus than dogs.... its actually quite rare in dogs ... you were unfortunately very unlucky :-( so no dogs don't need vaccinating but horses most definitely do. And anti-toxin injections are not the same thing....
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Newborn foals are given anti toxin as their system cannot handle the toxoid until they are older.

Treatment for a horse with tetanus is a large quantity of anti toxin.

There are areas where tetanus is more common, and areas where it is really rare.

None of the school horses were vaccinated and many of them had been in the school for decades. I've worked with hundreds of horses over the past 40+ years and never yet had to deal with a horse with tetanus, yet I've known a dog die from it and my chiro's partner contract it after being pricked by a rose bush. She recovered!
 
Newborn foals hopefully receive maternal immunity via the mares colostrum assuming the mare is also adequately vaccinated. Vaccination of all young animals has to be when maternal antibodies have started to fall. Anti toxin is given as a precaution due to the very real possibility of umbilical infection.
Clostridium tetani lives in soil and horse droppings and with horse always looking for novel ways if injuring themselves (!) it is very easy for them to succumb if immunologically naive.
And as an aside I personally always get my own tetanus booster as well as the horses. Why would I wish to put either them or myself at any risk when so easily preventable?
 
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lelly said:
Some people never vaccinate others always do. I always had my competition horses vaccinated because they were mixing with others. I have a Shetland gelding who has never been vaccinated. He's still alive 23 years on. The gypsies never vaccinate theirs. Its your choice.
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Dear god.

Yes, I get all my finer horse management tips from 'The Gypsies'.

Why is it all the half assed owners sail along doing the bare minimum basic care and seemingly get away with it? Mind you I suppose their poor horses don't get diagnosed with anything ever because they hardly see a damn vet.
 
abracadabra said:
Dear god.

Yes, I get all my finer horse management tips from 'The Gypsies'.

Why is it all the half assed owners sail along doing the bare minimum basic care and seemingly get away with it? Mind you I suppose their poor horses don't get diagnosed with anything ever because they hardly see a damn vet.
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You have hit the nail on the head.

It boils my pee to see certain posters on here who seem to have an aversion to paying for any vet treatment or examinations etc....and they seem to think they are justified in not doing so by saying 'they have always been like this', 'they are fine, just skinny', 'I've never had a horse have tetanus therefore I won't pay for a vaccination'.
 
I know, pee boiled here too.
I should have said less than minimum basic care though tbh, cos that's what I feel some of these lacksidaisical people are offering.
 
alm2594 said:
Hi guys!

I'm new to the forum so hope I'm posting in the right place!

I'm getting two beautiful shetland boys (ages 8 & 15) at the end of the month. When I went to see them the other day I asked all the usual questions bar one. If they were vaccinated or not? I'm guessing from their history they haven't been as they are not currently registered with a vet. I just wondered peoples opinions on whether I should get them vaccinated if they haven't been previously? Or should I leave them as they haven't had any issues before? Also if anyone could recommend a good equine vet in the Chorley/Preston area too?

Any help or information (past experiences etc) would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks
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Welcome to the forum, and congratulations on initiating a really explosive thread, covering the whole spectrum of opinion, fact and fiction, fantasy and science.
All aspects of animal and human emotions are to be found on this forum, but not often in one thread :)
Not sure if anyone actually recommended a vet [bump]
 
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bonny said:
Been away googling to try and get some idea of the numbers of horses with tetanus but I have failed apart from Ontario where it's less than 5 a year ! Also been reading on the latest research about vaccinations and how researchers are increasingly thinking we are over vaccinating our animals. Horses and our immune systems work in a similar way, humans are advised to have tetanus every 10 years, very few do, does anyone on here know of anyone contracting tetanus ? The veterinary industry makes a lot of money out of vaccinating horses and pets, people considering whether it's necessary or not are not idiots just because they can think for themselves !
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As already stated, horses are uniquely sensitive to clostridium tetani, in comparison to humans/dogs etc, as well as being more exposed to the organism and more likely to have wound contamination with soil. Even so, any one who's ever stood on a nail or had a wound contaminated with dirt is always advised to get a tetanus booster. The reason we don't see many tetanus cases is because most responsible horse owners vaccinate; even if the risk is low, most people I'm sure would rather their horse didn't die a slow, painful death from an easily avoidable disease. And its certainly not that rare - I qualified as a vet in 2011 and saw 2 cases within my first 2 years of practice in Yorkshire.

To the OP - Flu vaccination is something to discuss with your vet based on how likely they are to be exposed (bear in mind that they don't have to be going anywhere, if other horses in contact with them are going on/off premises then they will still be at risk) but I would definitely get tetanus vaccines. Yes, they could live their whole lives and never get tetanus. But you'll feel pretty awful if you don't vaccinate and have to watch them suffer and die.
 
I genuinely do not understand why anyone wouldn't vaccinate their horse against tetanus.

Many years ago as a child we lived in a cottage overlooking a big field where 4 horses were kept. We vaguely knew the owners from me being horse mad and always going to speak to them. Anyway, one day, my Mum and I were looking out the window and noticed 3 people at one of the horses. We went across and they said the horse was really unwell and needed to get into a stable. The vet had been and given him painkillers and instructed them to use 'any means necessary' to get the horse inside. Using a trailer was out of the question given the location. It took 5 of us 7 hours to get the horse to walk a distance of about 400m. We had to use buckets of feed, whips, shouting, plastic bags etc. During that time the vet came again to administer more painkillers. We finally got him into the stable. Two days later he was dead. The cause? A TINY cut (and I mean TINY, so small that if my horse had one that size I wouldn't do anything other than clean it with saline) which led to tetanus.

Funnily I just got my bill in today for tetanus & flu, tooth rasp and call out. It was £80 (and £30 of that was the call out). If I'd just done the jab it would have been a lot less. If you have a vet that's good with teeth then it can all get done at once. If you can pair up with someone else at your yard, or a few people, get your horse vaccinated at the same time then cheaper still. I vaccinate for flu as I do go out and about, if I didn't, I wouldn't bother. To not vaccinate against tetanus however is really not wise. It is a horrible thing to happen to a horse which is easily prevented.

Reactions to vaccinations are very rare. I have seen it once (and given I have 16 dogs, all vaccinated every 3 years, I see a lot of vaccinations....plus I used to work on a showjumping yard, all horses vaccinated) but the benefits far outweigh the risks.
 
A lot of horses react badly to vaccination ie abscesses ,Google reaction to vaccination,I spoke to the vet at B E V A and asked if a horse has an abscess following the vaccine is it actually rejected from the body , he could not answer that question, he did say they are aware there is a problem with the vaccine ,but could not say what the problem is because he does,not know.
Reading on the internet there is MURCURY in equine vaccinations,which is a known neurotxin.
 
shergar said:
A lot of horses react badly to vaccination ie abscesses ,Google reaction to vaccination,I spoke to the vet at B E V A and asked if a horse has an abscess following the vaccine is it actually rejected from the body , he could not answer that question, he did say they are aware there is a problem with the vaccine ,but could not say what the problem is because he does,not know.
Reading on the internet there is MURCURY in equine vaccinations,which is a known neurotxin.
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No, it is not the vaccine being rejected from the body. An abscess is caused by infection of the injection sire. All vaccines are delivered with an adjuvant, a substance that increases the immune response to the antigens ( eg part of a toxin) and makes them more efficient. It's certainly not mercury these days although it was used in the past. My old horse used to have a serious reaction to one brand of flu vaccine, he was fine with others. Tetanus is too cheap to not vaccinate against, the disease has a poor prognosis, is horrendously painful for the horse and cost of anti-toxin is huge.
 
Moomin1 said:
You have hit the nail on the head.

It boils my pee to see certain posters on here who seem to have an aversion to paying for any vet treatment or examinations etc....and they seem to think they are justified in not doing so by saying 'they have always been like this', 'they are fine, just skinny', 'I've never had a horse have tetanus therefore I won't pay for a vaccination'.
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Moo in and abracadabra, some of us have been around horses in large numbers for a very long time, and when you can go through near on 50 years and never seen a case of tetanus despite being with horses both vaccinated and not you tend to realise it's not always necessary.

It's not a question of being neglectful. It's 20years since I've needed to call out the vet. I only see her when my mare goes to stud or when the foals are given their tetanus course.

I won't have a vet on the place when the foals are new born, I've seen friends lies foals to Rotovirus after the vet had been. I get the tetanus antitoxin from my vet and administer it myself. Stump is dipped in Dilute Iodine daily for a week.

The farrier opens foot abscesses - he does a better job. And after my young horse was returned with a cut hock a couple of years ago I wouldn't let a vet bandage my horses either.

Vets may have qualifications but there are times when experience trumps their training.
 
Mother of chickens, If you Google NEUROTOXIN IN HORSE VACCINE, I read on that page ,HORSE VACCINATION PROTOCOL DEPAOLO ,EQUINE CONCEPTS , sorry I am not sure how
to do a link, if you have time may be you could take a look,and tell me is the information on there all out of date, thanks.
 
shergar said:
Mother of chickens, If you Google NEUROTOXIN IN HORSE VACCINE, I read on that page ,HORSE VACCINATION PROTOCOL DEPAOLO ,EQUINE CONCEPTS , sorry I am not sure how
to do a link, if you have time may be you could take a look,and tell me is the information on there all out of date, thanks.
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To get a link, highlight the address bar, right click and copy. Click on where you want to paste, right click and paste. If on a touch screen, hold finger on address bar until it turns blue, then tap and chose copy, then tap where you want to paste it, press screen until bubble comes up and tap paste.
 
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