Vaccination vs socialisation

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littlen

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I was wondering what everyone's current thoughts are on early socialisation vs vaccination status in puppies?

I currently have an 8 week old very large puppy and am debating taking her out vs leaving her until 12 weeks on my vets recommendations. She has had her 1st vac but isn't due the second for 2 weeks then a week waiting.

I can't really carry her far as she is huge and wiggly. I am already pushing a pram so would find it hard to push two if I were to put her in one.

I really am concerned about a lack of socialisation if I were to wait until 12 weeks as she's going to be massive and she's also quite an aloof breed (although she's happy as Larry at the moment!)
 
We take ours out, sensibly, so not to the park but anywhere where there aren't a lot of dogs. Do you have friends with dogs? She could go to theirs. She can go out in the car. You could take her out, park up in a car park and let her look out and meet people?
 
Clodagh do you put them on the floor? I live on the beach but there are lots of dogs there.

I do have friends with dogs so can allow her to meet those happily. I just really want her to be bombproof to give her the best chance.

When I do take her out in the car or outside carried she is a little worried understandably for the first few minutes and I think it would be easier to give her confidence now rather than waiting until she's older. Saying that I also don't want her to die of parvo!
 
Take her out for drives in the car, she can socialise with other dogs who are up to date with vaccines, I walk mine from day one but I tend to live on farms where the only dogs that have access are known ones- I would not walk in public places till they are fully covered by their vacs, I feel the risk is too high.
I would however take her out when someone else can look after the baby, I would go and sit at a bus stop/public bench with pup on your lap-dont however allow people to overwhelm the pup and touch her unless she is happy with it.
 
I am sure I have read that beaches are safe as parvo cannot survive on salty sand? Don't totally rely on that but it might be worth looking into. Like Twiggy I live on a farm so mine are just out and about, and lots of people here have dogs. My main failing is they never meet children and consequently regard them with dread and horror. (me too tbh!).
If you took her to the public car park you could sit with oyur boot open so she can see what is going on - as Twiggy says don't let all and sundry grab her though.
 
Jill she's already had the first one so I think I'm stuck there but will ask!
It could have been given from 7 weeks but I didn't get her that early as she was still with mum!
 
I don't know if you have a Petsat Home or similar pet supermarket near you, but if you do , a friend takes her GSD pups there and pushes them round in a trolley. They get loads of fuss but aren't in contact with other dogs. I have carried GSD pups round car boot sales, horse shows etc before their final jabs, doesn't do a lot for your back !
 
I am taking Stanley to pre-puppy classes, all the pups have had their first vaccination and the indoor area is disinfected prior to each session, pups are carried from the car. Pups are introduced to each other on the lead, in twos, then threes and at the end of the session in 4/5s. Basically they go for the 4 weeks between the 1st and 2nd vacc then join the main puppy class. I've taken him out in car several times now and also a couple of times in the lorry and he's been carried round several places introducing him to people and also taken to friends who don't have dogs but do have children. I've also invited children over to play with him. Did some vacuuming this morning to get him used to that (not that that goes on much in our house!) There's lots of ways of socialising them without taking the risk of going to public places where other dogs go but I guess it's so much easier with a small pup.
 
I buy in pups from breeders with healthy bitches and so they hopefully have a level of immunity from the dam....as opposed to taking in a street rescue, mal-nourished with a compromised immune system. The pup will mix with my other adults from day one and I believe that it is better to build immunity sooner rather than later. My pups therefore hit the ground running and to-date I have not had any problems health wise.
 
Please dont take him out until he's vaccinated. They're very small at this age ang there's plenty of time after their vaccinations to socialise them - it won't be a problem. You want to do best by your pup= get him used to loads of things at home.
I wouldn't take him to a petstore - who knows where peoples hands have been
You can take him for drives etc to get used to car.
 
gunnergundog said:
I buy in pups from breeders with healthy bitches and so they hopefully have a level of immunity from the dam....as opposed to taking in a street rescue, mal-nourished with a compromised immune system. The pup will mix with my other adults from day one and I believe that it is better to build immunity sooner rather than later. My pups therefore hit the ground running and to-date I have not had any problems health wise.
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Immunity wanes from weaning, that's why the pups are vaccinated at 7-8 and 11-12 weeks, the immunity from the bitches milk is not long lasting so I would guess luck has been on your side. For most people who walk their dogs in areas of high dog population the pups would be at huge risk.
 
SusieT said:
…….. They're very small at this age ang there's plenty of time after their vaccinations to socialise them - it won't be a problem. ……..
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Rare though it may be, I have to agree with the writer. You have 10+ years in front of you, there really is no rush. There's a term which we apply to sheepdogs and it equally applies to us; TAKE TIME! :D

Alec.
 
oldie48 said:
I am taking Stanley to pre-puppy classes, all the pups have had their first vaccination and the indoor area is disinfected prior to each session, pups are carried from the car. Pups are introduced to each other on the lead, in twos, then threes and at the end of the session in 4/5s. Basically they go for the 4 weeks between the 1st and 2nd vacc then join the main puppy class. I've taken him out in car several times now and also a couple of times in the lorry and he's been carried round several places introducing him to people and also taken to friends who don't have dogs but do have children. I've also invited children over to play with him. Did some vacuuming this morning to get him used to that (not that that goes on much in our house!) There's lots of ways of socialising them without taking the risk of going to public places where other dogs go but I guess it's so much easier with a small pup.
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I'm really sorry to say this, but I suspect that you've been swept along by a load of old bull. Stan the man needs to have the world offered to him as and when he can accept it. The proposed routine may very well have you ending up with a dog which has a fried brain. Once a puppy has an established routine and he accepts the sequential stages, then we move on to round II and then III.

What you do now will make or mar your dog for life. If 'it' will wait until tomorrow, then let it wait. More lasting harm has been done because of too early, than too late and I'd suggest that you learn from someone who has made a great many mistakes.

Alec.
 
We have a pair of Rottweiler bitches (I refuse to use the word 'girls' for female dogs, even for TFC). They met Dad's elderly Labrador which involved traveling in the car, from being tiny, went to Pets at Home for their vaccs but nowhere else until the day after they were allowed out by the vet when they went to Bramham on the Thursday. Several people asked what they were (they have long tails) and loads of people wanted to stroke them. They are two of the most confident dogs you could wish to meet, yet Rottweilers have a reputation of being nervous dogs.
12 weeks will be plenty old enough to take her out and about, OP
 
twiggy2 said:
Immunity wanes from weaning, that's why the pups are vaccinated at 7-8 and 11-12 weeks, the immunity from the bitches milk is not long lasting so I would guess luck has been on your side. For most people who walk their dogs in areas of high dog population the pups would be at huge risk.
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Immunity can last up to 16 weeks and actually interferes with core vaccines administered earlier.

The VGG recognizes that maternally derived antibody (MDA) significantly interferes with the efficacy of most current core vaccines
administered to pups and kittens in early life. As the level of MDA varies significantly among litters, the VGG recommends the
administration of multiple core vaccine doses to pups and kittens, with the final dose of these being delivered at 16 weeks or older or
above and then followed by a booster at 6- or 12-months of age. In cultural or financial situations where a pet animal may only be
permitted the benefit of a single vaccination, that vaccination should be with core vaccines at 16 weeks of age or older.

Full text here: http://www.wsava.org/sites/default/files/WSAVA Vaccination Guidelines 2015 Full Version.pdf
 
In the text it states that in most puppies passive immunity has warned by 8-12 weeks, however that is not the case for all and some may be incapable of responding to vaccinations till 16 weeks of age, so the recommendation is to vaccinate at 6-8 weeks then every 2-4 weeks until 16 weeks or older.
I have not directly quoted as between myself and my phone we are not that technological competent.
So for most 7-8 weeks and 11-12 weeks is the norm as it catches most puppies just right, of course some will not gain adequate cover despite best efforts.
 
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Alec Swan said:
I'm really sorry to say this, but I suspect that you've been swept along by a load of old bull. Stan the man needs to have the world offered to him as and when he can accept it. The proposed routine may very well have you ending up with a dog which has a fried brain. Once a puppy has an established routine and he accepts the sequential stages, then we move on to round II and then III.

What you do now will make or mar your dog for life. If 'it' will wait until tomorrow, then let it wait. More lasting harm has been done because of too early, than too late and I'd suggest that you learn from someone who has made a great many mistakes.

Alec.
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Well I seem to have a puppy who is confident, happy and extremely well balanced. He takes new experiences in his stride but that is perhaps they are introduced sympathetically. I can't help thinking that there may be some difference in bringing up pets rather than working dogs. My dogs live in the house with washing machines, vacuums etc. I have lots of visitors of all ages. I use my lorry and car regularly and need my dog to travel happily without being car sick. He will sometimes stay away with me so will need to be adaptable. I am certainly no expert but I am prepared to research and I like to think I can sift the "wheat from the chaff" so to speak so I don't get taken in by bullshit. I am preparing my dog for the life he will lead in the best way that I can and socialisation in the broadest sense is IMHO the best way of doing it. I am sure that you do the same. Best wishes.
 
oldie48, I'm quite sure that with your sensible approach, it will be plain sailing! Perhaps my growing resistance to the suggestions and new ideas which I seem to be offered and which I suspect won't benefit either me or the dog, so my judgement is a trifle clouded! :)

Alec.
 
I've always walked puppies from day one of picking them up. This has meant they have not completed their vaccines. I just think socialisation and seeing the world is so so important that it's a risk I will take.
 
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