Vaccination

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SinfulFox

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Do people bother vaccinating their dogs? My sister hasnt bothered with her dog, saying that he'll pick up a natural immunity through meeting other dogs etc.
Is it really a must do or not? I am thinking of getting a pup soon and wondering if its just another vet money spinner?
 
We used to vaccinate our dog every year. I really don't think it's to be pooh poohed. We also had a kennel cough vaccine done even though our dog was never kennelled as he occassionally would stay in the vets for a good few hours if he had x rays or MRI scans done. The chances of him picking up something from the vets is always quite real. Not all vaccines had to be done yearly. Some where done less frequently.Your sister I am afraid, is woefully wrong about immunity in my opinion. Have a good read of some sites as to why we vaccinate and then decide for yourself. I personally would never risk it.
 
I admit, I am a bad mummy and went a few years without vaccinating Beastie. She is now up to date.

Our gundogs got all their intial vaccinations as pups and have had nothing else since.

I noticed in a previous post that you don't have time to ride...would you have the time for a pup? I'm not picking holes, it's just pups are a lot harder work than some people think especially if they haven't owned dogs before. (again, not meant as a criticism, just an observation!
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he'll pick up a natural immunity through meeting other dogs etc.


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Natural immunity might not be the only thing he could pick up.....
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I am currently living with parents so my pup would live with them during the day whilst I am at work, with my riding post, I guess its inclination as well as time - I can walk a dog in the dark, but I cant ride my mare...
 
That's true. TBH I find walking my dogs more enjoyable than riding sometimes! But maybe as I'm not the most confident of riders.

What kind of pup are you thinking of getting?
 
Im not sure, something energetic but not big as I dont think its fair or parents or the dog, they are getting a little old now - and so are their dogs.
To fit in with a flat coat retriever and a pharoah hound both about 9YO.
 
Oh I love pharoah hounds! You don't see them very often. Everyone in my family are getting pups at the min, in the last month we have got a springer, a cavalier king charles and a king charles!

I am quite happy sticking to my old Beastie, stubborn biatch that she is!
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Parvo can be a killer. Kennel cough is really unpleasant and can lead to other things as the scillia in the lungs are damaged and so infections can be let in.

There is a school of thought I believe that after a certain number of annual vaccs then your dog will be covered for the rest of its life. No idea how many years this is supposed to be.

Personally, I feel my dogs are worth paying out a few quid a year for so that I don't have to test out this theory
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it's definitely not a money spinner. you wouldn't think that if you'd seen dogs die from parvo, lepto and distemper like i have and that's all in the past year.

my dogs aren't vacc against kennel cough as they dont come into contact with other dogs, but they always get their boosters - a few quid a year for peace of mind. also, it's not just the vacc you get when you go for a booster, but a full check and i quite often pick up things that the owners knew nothing about that are potentially life-threatening and we can do things about them - most commonly tumours of various sorts, both on the skin and in the abdomen.
 
It's very important! Though you don't need to do what I did and allow the vet to con you into a 3 part vaccination rather than the standard, and perfectly effective, 2 part puppy jab! Classic tactics to make you feel an inferior owner if you don't cough up the extra for the "double plus"...
 
I have mine titre tested for antibodies and do not vaccinate unless levels are below those recommended. I have found that puppies + 1 will usually last a dog for a lifetime! I have not had the need to revaccinate any older dog. USA reports now recommend that it is required a lot less frequently than what is in common practice in the UK and I personally strongly believe it to be detrimental to over vaccinate.

Some Vet's don't like doing the test and one badgered me saying you might as well just vaccinate, luckily I stood my ground and insisted. The titre levels in one of my dogs for parvo were through the roof, he had just come out of breed rescue in kennels. Had I used a multiple vaccine on that dog at that time it could have very likely made him very ill. I had great pleasure in telling her I told you so!

Lepto vaccines until more recent manufacturers claims were only effective for about 3 months so it was pointless having them in a multiple vaccine anyway, and I avoid those things like the plague.

My sister conducted some research with her own dogs and reported on it in 2002, it's here if you are interested in this subject and her findings.

http://members.aol.com/Brushbow/src/vaccination.htm
 
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I have mine titre tested for antibodies and do not vaccinate unless levels are below those recommended. I have found that puppies + 1 will usually last a dog for a lifetime! I have not had the need to revaccinate any older dog. USA reports now recommend that it is required a lot less frequently than what is in common practice in the UK and I personally strongly believe it to be detrimental to over vaccinate.

Some Vet's don't like doing the test and one badgered me saying you might as well just vaccinate, luckily I stood my ground and insisted. The titre levels in one of my dogs for parvo were through the roof, he had just come out of breed rescue in kennels. Had I used a multiple vaccine on that dog at that time it could have very likely made him very ill. I had great pleasure in telling her I told you so!


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That's really interesting. Thanks for that. Out of interest, how much does the titre cost if you don't mind me asking, although there are of course considerations other than cost when making these decisions
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There's been a great long thread on vaccinations and how many to have, when to have them, etc over on Dogpages http://www.dogpages.org.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=162520&hl=vaccinations Some interesting comments. As I foster dogs for a rescue, they always have their first two vaccs regardless of what may or may not have gone before.
 
I don't know Star, America have done so much more research into these vaccinations than we have over here.

They recommend not vaccinating until 12-14 weeks due to the mothers antibodies, yet over here if you express concern re. the antibodies killing off the vaccination they say vaccinate every 2 weeks from 6 weeks until 12 weeks and then again at 16 weeks.... thats what I call a money spinner.

Also UK vets suggest vaccinating annually whereas American scientists have said the third jab (so first vaccination as an adult dog) should be given at 18 months and not as a booster.

My friends who breed on the border (Welsh not Scottish
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) had Parvo, their two Westie bitches were the only dogs that were NOT vaccinated yet the only two dogs which didn't come down with the illness....

Vaccinated dogs can still go through the motions as such which vets don't often tell owners which is a little misleading.

Also why does a vaccination that cost the vets £4-5.00 get charged at between £25-40.00?
 
like i said before, there is much more to a booster vacc than just the jab. if it was just that i could do them in 30secs instead of 10mins. you're paying for a full health check as well as the cost of the vacc (which even at cost price costs me £9) and personally I get fed up of seeing dogs brought in for problems and i then find huge abdominal tumours which if picked up earlier could have been removed - it's always the ones which haven't been brought in for yrs.
i'm happy to titre test if an owner requests it and i mention it to owners if they ask about the need for boosters. unfortunately i am forced to follow manufacturer guidelines with regard to booster intervals. i know certain components of the vacc last 3yrs instead of one, but my boss doesnt stock the split vaccines so i have no choice but to give the full booster every yr.

i would say though that the dogs i've seen die from these diseases had either had no vacc or just a puppy course - i've never seen a vacc dog with one of these diseases.
 
It costs about the same as the multiple vac, hence the reaction I had from the vet i.e. you might as well just vaccinate. But the titre results are good for 2 years and if your dog’s immune system is in any way under assault at the time of a multiple vaccination it can result in a meltdown!!

I have found a reluctance to source single vaccinations at some vets, but my current practice is very pro and also support my raw feeding too!! They are more than happy to supply singles if required but they inevitably cost more to the vets from the companies, who I suspect find it faster and cheaper to supply multi’s, economies of scale and all that!

I take mine in for a health check of course, and of course sometimes they will require blood for the titre test, but mostly it is just that for a check up alone and not to vaccinate a dog that is proven not to require it. They never need teeth done as they are raw fed, worm counts are zero, no skin conditions or allergies, so it's quite an easy job with mine!

My sister’s study results undertaken prior to the release of the US research actually supported that research! Basically she uses nosodes until 6mts and then has them vaccinated and her research and titre results have shown no further need to vaccine so far. I have found similar though as I have rescues their vaccination history is unknown, but my ethos is always titre first then I know.

The results come back with a full interpretation of the antibody levels for each diaease and details of the ranges plus a simple wording on if vaccination is required.
 
Vaccinate.... the amount of parvo i see at work is incredible, its really sad as its preventable around £20 the cost of a takeaway and once the initial 2 jabs done its just once a year
 
My dogs are vaccinated annually - my last dog died the most horrible death of pancreatitus but at the time the vets didn't know what was wrong and thought it might be Parvo which was around at the time. If he had died of that I would never have forgiven myself for not having done his jabs - hence this is why I don't even think about the current ones being done on time.

Also, if you want to put them in boarding kennel when you go away you have to show a vaccination certificate.
 
Mine is boarded regularly, goes to doggie daycare and to the dog park; in short, she is around hundreds of different dogs every week, and it would be foolish not vaccinate (much as I'm nervous about doing so, after she had an adverse reaction to her last rabies vaccine).
 
Just to clarify here all the dogs in the study and my own dogs have tested with levels of antibodies to the relevant diseases, higher than those recommended from experiments undertaken on dogs to establish levels required by the vaccine manufacturers. If you read the study, the subjects were also were exposed to other dogs from around the country on a regular basis in competition conditions, (more stressful) as well!

Dogs died so that they could establish what the safe levels were. Lots of them were experimented on and given those diseases and continue to be as new vaccines and improvements to the old ones are made. Just as 12 yearling horses were killed to establish how big a lump a vaccination left in their necks at that age!!!

Anyway over vaccination on an already insulted immune system can be life threatening to your dog causing a additional weakness can open the dog to diseases not vaccinated for or can cause sever illness resulting in organ damage.

The production of a valid titre certificate is widely accepted as proof of adequate vaccination status for most purposes. I find the dissenters become very pro when I threaten to sue if my dog becomes ill following an enforced vaccination. The only exception of course is the rabies, had I enough spare cash I might be tempted to challenge that one as well, for I believe that antibody levels might remain high enough for longer periods between doses.

Even if I followed the commercial line of vaccinate every year I would not do this without a titre test. My dog's levels for parvo that I mentioned above were 50 times what the manufacturer established as adequate, his immune system was clearly overloaded at that point, he had had a bout of Kennel Cough from rescue kennels as well so imagine what a multiple additional insult to his immune system at that time would have done to him.

I am not advocating not vaccinating, but vaccinating intelligently.
 
Karyn

You talk a lot of sense to me, and have made me think about stuff I have never thought of before. If I ever get any dogs of my own again rather then a foster, I would certainly go down the testing route rather than just vacc regardless.

I think rescue kennels probably vacc due to costs and speed, and because so many dogs that are not immune and not vacc'd could go down with something very nasty in a kennel environment.

Thanks again for your interesting and well thought out responses.
 
I can see why rescues do this as they don’t always know the vaccination history and it is such a stressful thing putting a dog into kennels at any time let alone when rescued and the stress behind that as well. Waiting for a titre result here could cost a dog its life if unprotected, especially if never vaccinated and never been in contact with others. But you could also argue that at the point the dog comes into the kennel it’s probably a bit late to vaccinate? Open for debate here!

Every dog I have rescued via kennels has had kennel cough when I got it, stress from being in an alien environment lowering immune response I suspect! So it’s also worth saying here vaccinations do not stop animals getting the disease, they prepare the body’s defences in advance, a bit like a spy leaking military secrets!!!

Also animals given a vaccine can shed the virus as a result!

There is a lot more information about vaccinations out there than the scant details commonly fed to owners.
 
I used to vaccinate my two terriers for the first 6 yrs of their lives, then just stopped, my lab who is 2 now hasnt been vaccinated since her puppy jabs and I am not going to bother, also my daughter who is nearly 6 hasnt been vaccinated since birth, I am very anti-vaccination and believe too many things are vaccinated against, we should let our immune systems build up and fight things off as naturally as we can, people and animals that is.
 
I have today been discussing vaccinations with my vet. Last year one of my GSDs was very ill with immune mediated polyarthritis sp? after her booster. She is due again for her boosters, but I also want to have her spayed in the next month. The vet recommended just giving her the lepto jab, but says I can leave that until after she is spayed as it lasts for 15 months.
 
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