Vaccinations....yes or no after a certain age?

[noodle_]

Ive always had my pups 1st and 2nd injections done and then their boosters... and so on up until they pass away....

However my dog is coming up 7 this year and I am 80% sure my decision is to vaccinate this final year and thats it - no more ever.

My reason? ive heard far too many stories of older (7+) dogs being vaccinated and then having more complications from this....as well as certain research given that shows they dont actually need it..... (After the 1st year booster)....

What are your thoughts??

My dog has various problems anyhow - another being a liver issue which we blood test twice a year anyhow... but thats not really affecting my decision about vaccinating...im looking for informed opinions really....!!!

WWYD!!? and do you vaccinate "forever"...?

 

[PucciNPoni]

At my vets we vaccinate annually for leptospirosis but every three years for Parvo/Distemper I believe. The reason for this, from what they tell me is that the Parvo vax is good for 3 years, but the lepto keeps changing every year. Considering my dogs sometimes come to the yard where lepto could be present via rats, I would rather they be safe than sorry.

 

[noodle_]

Thank you for the reply

part of my problem is i just vaccinate my dogs....i dont ask what its *for* !!

im taking the eldest for her bloods tomorrow and a check on lump (We think fatty but no harm in checking...) anyhow so will ask then as her vaccs was due in march BUT puppy is due in end of may so taking them together with an informed decision (puppy is being done anyhow)!

 

[SusieT]

Will you titre test instead? otherwise it's pointless just stopping vaccinating, as you have no idea what level the immunity is at. Lepto needs done every year, most of the others only need done 3 yearly. There si a myth that at 7 or 8 your dog is now immune for life, often perpetuated by people who have just decided that its too much money and the dog is now old so 'should' be immune without understanding the realities.

 

[twiglet84]

I think you should titre test first if your not sure, otherwise you won't know his antibody levels and whether he is safe or not. We also work on a 3 yr vaccine protocol so they don't get the same every year. Xxx

 

[Jools2345]

all the vets at work (7 of them) recommend vaccinating every year even though staff vaccs are free so no-one is making any money-in fact it cost the practice to vaccinate my dogs but the partners still moan if they are late being done

 

[PucciNPoni]

Will you titre test instead? otherwise it's pointless just stopping vaccinating, as you have no idea what level the immunity is at. Lepto needs done every year, most of the others only need done 3 yearly. There si a myth that at 7 or 8 your dog is now immune for life, often perpetuated by people who have just decided that its too much money and the dog is now old so 'should' be immune without understanding the realities.

Yes, this is how I understand it too.

I think the reason vets are seen to be "pushing" vaccinations is that testing titer is misunderstood by the owners, I am not sure if it's more expensive or not, but there is still a cost associated with it -therefore it's perhaps easier to just vaccinate.

 

[noodle_]

its not the cost - i dont have an issue with paying!!....


our friends lost a dog at 12 after being vaccinated - another happened the same way - + what ive been reading leads me to believe they are more harm than good..

hence why i posted - as i want to make an informed decision as im not sure!!

 

[PucciNPoni]

its not the cost - i dont have an issue with paying!!....


our friends lost a dog at 12 after being vaccinated - another happened the same way - + what ive been reading leads me to believe they are more harm than good..

hence why i posted - as i want to make an informed decision as im not sure!!

I'm sure that's how most people feel that are anti-vaccinations. But to be honest, you should have this convo with your vet.

I know some people who are so anti-vax that will go the whole hog and say that you shouldn't vaccination your children against measles for example - claiming the whole out break in wales was a hoax by the government.

 

[Jools2345]

the other thing to bear in mind as well is that the likes of parvovirus are on the increase again too due to many dogs not being vaccinated.

i dont think any vet would ever say that vaccinations are 100% safe in 100% of cases but the risk of vaccinating is far far lower than the risk of not vaccinating.

i do not know of any vets who do not vaccinate their dogs yearly regardless of age

 

[MurphysMinder]

I have mine done for lepto annually, and others every 3 years, as recommended by my vet. I have stopped vaccinating an older bitch but that was after she developed an auto immune condition, again this was on vets advice. I can vaguely remember when dogs often died of distemper, and vividly recall when parvo first started killing dogs so I would always want my dogs to have some protection.

 

[Dobiegirl]

Ive had this conversation with my vets, having blood titres done is going to cost about £90 per dog, obviously I will continue to vax for Lepto even though it dosnt cover all strains.

What I did forget to ask was how often you should do blood titres after the initial one, does anyone know?

 

[noodle_]

thank you! glad i asked as i know you have a lot of experience between yourselves...i appreciate the knowledge

i will talk to my vet tomorrow

 

[SusieT]

question - the dogs that died, what was the story there? As I know one of the big homeopathy websites has 'case studies' all of which were either dogs that were ill before vaccination or didn't have a clinical check at vaccination -when you look at that and appreciate that dogs which have an underlying illess shouldn't be vaccinated you begin to appreciate that those that have reactions are in the vast majority ones that were sick to start off with and the vaccinations upset the immune system. A dog that is healthy, with normal temperature is very unlikely to react. re: how often to titre test-not sure, I'd imagine yearly but interested to hear others views.

 

[noodle_]

it was many years ago (i was a lot younger) but it always rung in my head....so i wouldn tlike to assume circumstances tbh...i was just told they were fit and healthy (agility dogs) but she died not long after the vaccs...

further to that and research im thinking.,,,!!

 

[SusieT]

Tbh I wouldn't be basing my dogs health on that then , good idea to have a chat to your vet.

 

[Amicus]

Wrote a long post but in vanished but the British veterinary association does a leaflet on vaccines well worth a read.

http://www.bva.co.uk/public/documents/vaccination_the_facts.pdf

Quote from:

"Recent trends in data mean that many products now indicate a duration of immunity of 3-4 years for canine distemper, parvovirus and adenovirus after completing the primary vaccination schedule and the subsequent booster in minimum age puppies."

I would be surprised if your dog didn't have a good level of immunity by now but worth discussing with your vet in case your area or dog is of high risk.

 

[Crugeran Celt]

I used to have two labradors who were vaccinated as pups but I never had them done again. They never mixed with any other dogs due to where we live and they never had a problem. The vet was fine with that. I now have two springers and they are vaccinated every year as they come every where with us which means they mix with lots of different dogs and other animals. Is the vaccination issue the same with horses, mine always had theirs every year but I was advised to only have them done every other year.

 

[Alec Swan]

Will you titre test instead? otherwise it's pointless just stopping vaccinating, as you have no idea what level the immunity is at. Lepto needs done every year, most of the others only need done 3 yearly. There si a myth that at 7 or 8 your dog is now immune for life, often perpetuated by people who have just decided that its too much money and the dog is now old so 'should' be immune without understanding the realities.

I'm not going to dismiss your claims, out of hand, but such statements need verification from those who are involved in the science of vaccination, and they need to be from a source which is other than those who would be selling us either a product, or their expertise. Does such research exist? I'd be interested to read it.

40 years ago, dogs were vaccinated, and the Veterinary profession, and the suppliers of the chemicals, assured us the vaccine was to give protection until the dog was a year old, by which time it would have built up its own immunity. Now 40 years on, it's possible that the diseases themselves have altered in their make up, to the point where they've managed to evade the vaccine itself, or the drug manufacturers have reduced the efficacy of their products in an attempt to expand their market. Either is possible.

I have never had a working sheepdog vaccinated, as they rarely if ever come in to contact with other dogs. Gundog puppies are vaccinated when they are about 10 weeks, and then never receive any form of annual booster. I have never had a dog succumb to any of the feared diseases.

My own vet assures me that she visits local hound kennels and vaccinates hound puppies, but never gives the adult hounds boosters. If the risk of infection was so great, and hounds do cover public spaces, wouldn't we expect to hear of outbreaks, within kennels?

I'm prepared to believe that bugs and diseases can change and alter in conformation, but I also believe that mammals, when subjected to a barrage of risk and contamination, will build up their own resistance. A resistance which is weakened by the constant use of vaccines.

I'm not an immunologist, and neither I suspect are the rest of us, but I think that before we pin our belief to any specific claims, we need access to qualified and unbiased opinion.

Alec.

 

[noodle_]

Glad i posted this as its opened up to a debate which is interesting.....

I will ask my vet about the test to do - as if its around £40 like aposter suggetsed its the same as a vaccination (yes ours are expensive)! i will research more !

 

[sandymere]

question - the dogs that died, what was the story there? As I know one of the big homeopathy websites has 'case studies' all of which were either dogs that were ill before vaccination or didn't have a clinical check at vaccination -when you look at that and appreciate that dogs which have an underlying illess shouldn't be vaccinated you begin to appreciate that those that have reactions are in the vast majority ones that were sick to start off with and the vaccinations upset the immune system. A dog that is healthy, with normal temperature is very unlikely to react. re: how often to titre test-not sure, I'd imagine yearly but interested to hear others views.

I'd agree, vaccinations are amazingly safe in comparison to the good they do. As to homeopathy that’s just sugar pills so hardly in a position to cast aspersions lol.

A vets looks at vacination, American but very relevant


http://skeptvet.com/Blog/

 

[connieconvert]

It would be interesting to hear from owners of boarding kennels on this topic.
All the ones that I know insist on up to date vaccination certicificates for the dogs in their care.
Any one had experience otherwise ?

 

[Nikki J]

My personal opinion is that the initial vaccinations are a good idea, especially if you live in town, but the boosters are just a money-making scam for the vet, and a serious health threat for the animals. The whole raison d'etre of vaccinations is that they work on the principle that the immune system is awakened by the initial vaccination so that in future if the dog or cat comes into contact with parvo, hard pad, whatever, the body's own immune system will be alerted and will fight off the invader. By giving an annual booster, you are just asking for trouble ... trouble in the form of the immune system going absolutely haywire, and causing gastrointestinal problems and in severe cases anaphylactic shock leading to death. With my dogs I have the initial vaccinations and then that's it, no more. So far, I have never had to regret that decision.

 

[Nikki J]

I'm not going to dismiss your claims, out of hand, but such statements need verification from those who are involved in the science of vaccination, and they need to be from a source which is other than those who would be selling us either a product, or their expertise. Does such research exist? I'd be interested to read it.

40 years ago, dogs were vaccinated, and the Veterinary profession, and the suppliers of the chemicals, assured us the vaccine was to give protection until the dog was a year old, by which time it would have built up its own immunity. Now 40 years on, it's possible that the diseases themselves have altered in their make up, to the point where they've managed to evade the vaccine itself, or the drug manufacturers have reduced the efficacy of their products in an attempt to expand their market. Either is possible.

I have never had a working sheepdog vaccinated, as they rarely if ever come in to contact with other dogs. Gundog puppies are vaccinated when they are about 10 weeks, and then never receive any form of annual booster. I have never had a dog succumb to any of the feared diseases.

My own vet assures me that she visits local hound kennels and vaccinates hound puppies, but never gives the adult hounds boosters. If the risk of infection was so great, and hounds do cover public spaces, wouldn't we expect to hear of outbreaks, within kennels?

I'm prepared to believe that bugs and diseases can change and alter in conformation, but I also believe that mammals, when subjected to a barrage of risk and contamination, will build up their own resistance. A resistance which is weakened by the constant use of vaccines.

I'm not an immunologist, and neither I suspect are the rest of us, but I think that before we pin our belief to any specific claims, we need access to qualified and unbiased opinion.

Alec.

An excellent post Alec ... well said!

 

[Nikki J]

It would be interesting to hear from owners of boarding kennels on this topic.
All the ones that I know insist on up to date vaccination certicificates for the dogs in their care.
Any one had experience otherwise ?

They do indeed - it's a vicious circle. Vets promulgate fear amongst dog owners IMO by painting a picture of a nationwide epidemic of hard pad, parvo, lepto etc. etc., forcing the kennels to say that all their clients must have annual boosters to cover their backsides in case someone's dog gets sick and the kennels are sued.

 

[MurphysMinder]

Maybe it was different because my family was showing dogs, but 40 years ago we still gave dogs boosters, I never recall assuming that an initial vaccination gave immunity for life. It was probably around 30 years ago that parvovirus first occurred, and until a vaccination was developed a lot of dogs died, so I think most people who remembered that time would not stop giving boosters altogether unless the dogs health suggested this was sensible.
As has already been said vets seem to be recommending only lepto vaccs annually and the rest every 2 or 3 years. All the vets I know follow this regime with their own dogs so I don't particularly think they recommend it just as a money spinner, they still have to pay for the drugs for their own dogs after all. I did ask last year about kennel cough jabs for mine as they were going to be with daughters dog who had recently had it, but my vet said it really wasn't worth it as there were so many different strains.

 

[sandymere]

I'm not going to dismiss your claims, out of hand, but such statements need verification from those who are involved in the science of vaccination, and they need to be from a source which is other than those who would be selling us either a product, or their expertise. Does such research exist? I'd be interested to read it.

40 years ago, dogs were vaccinated, and the Veterinary profession, and the suppliers of the chemicals, assured us the vaccine was to give protection until the dog was a year old, by which time it would have built up its own immunity. Now 40 years on, it's possible that the diseases themselves have altered in their make up, to the point where they've managed to evade the vaccine itself, or the drug manufacturers have reduced the efficacy of their products in an attempt to expand their market. Either is possible.

I have never had a working sheepdog vaccinated, as they rarely if ever come in to contact with other dogs. Gundog puppies are vaccinated when they are about 10 weeks, and then never receive any form of annual booster. I have never had a dog succumb to any of the feared diseases.

My own vet assures me that she visits local hound kennels and vaccinates hound puppies, but never gives the adult hounds boosters. If the risk of infection was so great, and hounds do cover public spaces, wouldn't we expect to hear of outbreaks, within kennels?

I'm prepared to believe that bugs and diseases can change and alter in conformation, but I also believe that mammals, when subjected to a barrage of risk and contamination, will build up their own resistance. A resistance which is weakened by the constant use of vaccines.

I'm not an immunologist, and neither I suspect are the rest of us, but I think that before we pin our belief to any specific claims, we need access to qualified and unbiased opinion.

Alec.

Lots of research on vaccines and thankfully the anti vacs brigade are on the wane. The idea that vaccines harm immunity is very far from the truth, in fact as a safe immune challenge they may well help the body develop its immune system.

Link below for Science based medicine articles around this area which are written by some knowledgeable people who promote common sense in science and medicine, just search for vaccines.


http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/

or for a lighter read try badscience forum.

http://www.google.co.uk/url?q=http:...wQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNHpDHgYVYXrl6HVEJ7qpLLrmtX4bQ

 

[Nikki J]

Lots of research on vaccines and thankfully the anti vacs brigade are on the wane. The idea that vaccines harm immunity is very far from the truth, in fact as a safe immune challenge they may well help the body develop its immune system.

Safe being the operative word here! It is definitely not safe to keep challenging the immune system of any species! To wake up the immune system, you do not need to present an immunological challenge on an annual basis!

 

[Nikki J]

Maybe it was different because my family was showing dogs, but 40 years ago we still gave dogs boosters, I never recall assuming that an initial vaccination gave immunity for life. It was probably around 30 years ago that parvovirus first occurred, and until a vaccination was developed a lot of dogs died, so I think most people who remembered that time would not stop giving boosters altogether unless the dogs health suggested this was sensible.
As has already been said vets seem to be recommending only lepto vaccs annually and the rest every 2 or 3 years. All the vets I know follow this regime with their own dogs so I don't particularly think they recommend it just as a money spinner, they still have to pay for the drugs for their own dogs after all. I did ask last year about kennel cough jabs for mine as they were going to be with daughters dog who had recently had it, but my vet said it really wasn't worth it as there were so many different strains.

I am sure they do still have to pay for the drugs for their own animals, but I bet at a vastly reduced rate to the inflated prices us punters have to pay!!

15 years ago I was charged £20 for a drontal worming tablet for my puppy!!

 

[cremedemonthe]

I'm with Nikki on this one, I don't get my dogs done every year.
We've had dogs many years and no problems but we are bombarded with scare stories from all sides.
It's a personal choice but I don't vaccinated the dogs after the first year or two.