Vaccinations....

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Yes I hesitate to post about this yet again, but it’s that time of year for 3 of mine!

Last year they had lepto only.

I’m not going to get Flick vaccinated at all as she probably won’t go out for walks any more after her stroke.

I was planning Lepto again for Millie and Amy - my old vets used to do the other vaccinations bi-annually, but I believe the recommendation is every 3 years now?

if my vets still recommend bi-annual injections can i insist they only do lepto? I assume I can.....
 
Not going to comment on vaccs (personal choice and all that), but just wanted to say that the collie I’ve mentioned previously that had a stroke is back u to two decent walks a day - so don’t discount x
 
Nobivac schedule is tri-annual for DHPPi, yearly for Lepto & this is what the WSAVA recommends. Personally my pups always got their puppy shots then a booster at 12 months, nothing after that. I don't live in a high risk Lepto area so don't bother.
 
amymay said:
Not going to comment on vaccs (personal choice and all that), but just wanted to say that the collie I’ve mentioned previously that had a stroke is back u to two decent walks a day - so don’t discount x
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Oh that’s good news thanks amymay. 😊😊😊

Flick wanted to come on the walk yesterday so I tried her on her own today, we only did a few steps and it was clear it was still too soon however keen she is to be out and about 😊 so she had a little wander about the garden in the sunshine and went back to sleep.... it’s a hard life being a greyhound 😄❤️
 
BlackadderUK said:
Nobivac schedule is tri-annual for DHPPi, yearly for Lepto & this is what the WSAVA recommends. Personally my pups always got their puppy shots then a booster at 12 months, nothing after that. I don't live in a high risk Lepto area so don't bother.
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Thanks blackadder that’s really useful - I’ll ask them if they titre test as well, I’ll definitely be keeping them up to date with Lepto though because we do have it in my area
 
I'd just do kc and lepto in an older dog if they have been regularly vaccinated in their early years.

You could titre test for the dhp if they have only had occasional vaccines.

Also don't assume that a stroke in dogs won't be recovered from..they arent as common as in humans but they have a pretty good prognosis!
 
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What do you all define as older? I stop about 5 or 6, Pen is 2 this year so will be having the full caboodle, probably her last one.
 
Our vet does a cheaper test than titre testing, it is a vaccicheck. It does not give numbers, just a green, amber or red result.

Heck had this and came back green, so little cost and no vaccination except for lepto.

We do a worm count too, no worms in Heck for the 2 years we have done it.

Must be more healthy for him, not to have unnecessary jabs.
 
My older ones are 12 Clodagh 😂 they have been vaccinated annually/bi-annually all their lives so it will be lepto only from now on

Marty is 4 so I won’t be stopping his yet, mad Millie is about 3 and definitely hasn’t had regular vaccinations until she went into rescue so she will be done until she is about 8 (if she survives that long 😡😛😄)
 
Levrier said:
Yes I hesitate to post about this yet again, but it’s that time of year for 3 of mine!

Last year they had lepto only.

I’m not going to get Flick vaccinated at all as she probably won’t go out for walks any more after her stroke.

I was planning Lepto again for Millie and Amy - my old vets used to do the other vaccinations bi-annually, but I believe the recommendation is every 3 years now?

if my vets still recommend bi-annual injections can i insist they only do lepto? I assume I can.....
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From what I have read routine yearly vacs now include Lepto routinely in the booster. There are many conflicting opinions from vets and holistic vets on giving yearly boosters and how it can damage the dogs immune system and other health issues.The BVA say not LESS than 3 years between boosters and 5yrs about average, so guess whos making money out of yearly vaccs. Once the dog reaches 10yrs. no further boosters needed.
My dog had the lepto jags as a pup years before I bought him.I have done a bit of research on vaccs. and the Lepto. booster after the pup jags has been given only needs to be boosted if the disease is in your area or the dog is regularly around rat/farm in daily life.or working dogs. I opted out of Lepto. for my dog when I got his other boosters after 4yrs.as he is not around that environment. The vet was ok about it.There is a lot of info. out there now about over vaccinating dogs and the problems it can cause to their health. The pup Lepto one was the biggest concern as it is given to pups 4 jags in the space of a few weeks of each other.
 
I always love the random decisions people make about vaccination- well he's 4/6/9/1 (where do these numbers even come from??) now that must mean he is fine without them - even though there is no scientific evidence to back that - there is titre testing freely available at affordable cost if you want to check your dogs immunity, and the advice is that the UK is a hotspot for Lepto so not quite as simple as if its around farm dogs.. We trust vets to perform complex surgeries - why do we not trust them for the basics? Yearly Lepto, 4 yearly DHP or titre test... Unless you still believe MMR vacc causes autism of course.
 
in general I am a 'pro-vaccination' person! my children have all the vaccinations offered on the NHS as I know the NHS won't spend money they don't feel they need to! But I do struggle with mixed opinions on the dog vaccinations. I don't routinely flea treat for example, as the flea build resistance and I don't have a flea problem. although I don't want to risk my dogs health, there is certainly money to be made from annual vaccinations despite some vets I have spoken to saying they believe 'should be fine' for two-three years, but insurance insists on yearly (although mine are not insured so when I was a few weeks late last year with boosters I did not restart).but there is no 'NHS' advise!
 
I'll just say this & I'm making the assumption that a dogs immune system works in the same way ours does...

Lets take the MMR vaccine. Children are given 2 doses, 1 at around 6-9 months & again around 3-4 years of age. We don't have to keep going to the doctor for a booster every 12 months, we are considered immune for life. Smallpox has been eradicated due to vaccination, one dose & no boosters.

Why are dogs different? I struggle to understand why we are advised to keep vaccinating our dogs throughout their lives when it's not necessary for us, it totally baffles me.

The WSAVA recommends 3 yearly boosters at the earliest for DHP(Pi) but if you delve deeper there is the probability that immunity lasts for much longer, possibly for life yet we have the situation where Nobivac is a 3 yearly regime but Vanguard sticks to the old every year booster schedule. Both use live attenuated virus vaccine so why the difference?

Yes there are diseases where the effects of vaccination wane quickly leading to lack of protection (KC, Lepto etc) but for the core vaccines, as I said above, mine get the 2 puppy shots & a booster at 12 months... nothing else!

Of course it's just my personal opinion :cool:
 
The vet told us at Luna’s booster last year that she will only have lepto this year. Bo has only just started his jabs again, so will have boosters for all next year.
 
'
I'm making the assumption that a dogs immune system works in the same way ours does...' - why would you assume this? Dogs don't process some meds the same way we do, or live as long as us, why should they process vaccinations the same way? And are the vaccinations the same type?
 
Yeah I thought this would result in this kind of “debate” aka ‘slanging match’ from certain users ☹️

Thanks for those who have helped crystallise my constructive thoughts 😊
 
Its not that dogs are 'that' different its that different vaccines bestow different levels of immunity-some really long lasting and some not so much. The KC vaccine for example is a mucosal vaccine -its gets effective immunity against the specific strains of KC but because its mucosal, its relatively short lived (the same goes for immunity of some mucosal pathogens in humans-so your immunity to the cold you've just recovered from would only be for about 6 months even if you were to encounter the exact same strain twice) hence the need for yearly jaggs. Mucosal immunity is one of the hardest to promote and it doesnt always translate to systemic immunity.

Immunity is dependant on many things-the actual antigens (ie elements of pathogens included in the vaccine such as parts of bacterial or viral proteins), the adjuvant in the vaccine which stimulates the immune response further (please note NOT mercury here) and the individual animal or human. Discovering an effective vaccine is a very long and complicated process (its what I do for a living) so please trust me that we look for the most effective cover we can-not to over vaccinate your animals because money.

Alot of the info about over vaccinating dogs is complete hooey.
 
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SusieT said:
'
I'm making the assumption that a dogs immune system works in the same way ours does...' - why would you assume this? Dogs don't process some meds the same way we do, or live as long as us, why should they process vaccinations the same way? And are the vaccinations the same type?
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SusieT is completely correct in this, not sure why anyone would think this is particularly combative?
 
oh, and I wasnt really commenting on whether older dogs should or shouldnt be vaccinated (I dont vaccinate older dogs that arent out and about myself) but I do get frustrated about the amount of misinformation out there and people basing decisions on nonsense assumptions such as all vaccines and animals are created equally. Will get back in my box now :)
 
I am in the SE U.S. I have found the small animal vets tend to want to over-vaccinate dogs.

My all around farm vet, however is a realist and we have this conversation every spring regarding my dogs and horses.

The vet considers living conditions, jobs, and travel (or lack of travel).

My dogs get rabies and distemper vaccines.

The horses now get nothing and haven't since 2007, which was the last year they were off the farm. They are 23+ & 25 and had been vaccinated every year up to that point.

I'm all for vaccinating provided there's a legitimate need for it -- which is why I ask the farm vet every year and not any of the small animal vets in my area:)
 
MotherOfChickens said:
SusieT is completely correct in this, not sure why anyone would think this is particularly combative?
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I agree with you in what you say about vaccines (although I do stop when they get older, and always have done).
SusieT is just so aggressive, and the incredibly deliberately rude and hurtful things she has said to people in the past are what causes me to not want to engage with her. She sets out to damage.
 
Twohorses said:
I am in the SE U.S. I have found the small animal vets tend to want to over-vaccinate dogs.

My all around farm vet, however is a realist and we have this conversation every spring regarding my dogs and horses.

The vet considers living conditions, jobs, and travel (or lack of travel).

My dogs get rabies and distemper vaccines.

The horses now get nothing and haven't since 2007, which was the last year they were off the farm. They are 23+ & 25 and had been vaccinated every year up to that point.

I'm all for vaccinating provided there's a legitimate need for it -- which is why I ask the farm vet every year and not any of the small animal vets in my area:)
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Do you not vaccinate against tetanus ? I stopped vaccinated our horses against flu last year, they are late 20s early 30s, and had been vaccinated up until then as they shared a field with a horse who was out competing. He is no longer around though so from now on they will just have tetanus every 2 years.
 
MotherOfChickens said:
but I do get frustrated about the amount of misinformation out there and people basing decisions on nonsense assumptions such as all vaccines and animals are created equally.
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That'll be me then :) but that's not exactly what I said, in fact your post #19 pretty much mirrored mine #14 but with more detail.

A dogs immune system is widely accepted in the scientific community to be extremely similar to ours in it's make up & reaction to Antigens. Given that & they respond to Vaccines in a very similar way it isn't a massive jump to think that the immune response & memory is similar, is it?
Above all, it must be remembered that even a 3-year license is a minimum DOI for core vaccines and for most core vaccines the true DOI is likely to be considerably longer, if not lifelong, for the majority of vaccine recipients.
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https://www.wsava.org/WSAVA/media/PDF_old/WSAVA-Vaccination-Guidelines-2015-Full-Version.pdf

The only reason it's now only advised to be 3 years is because it's been proved, lifelong would take a very large study costing lots of money, who's going to fund it?

Lastly, I object a little to the term "nonsense assumptions"... who decides what's nonsense? Years ago vaccinating every 3 years would have been labelled as "nonsense", after study it's now advised!

Lastly, lastly (can I get away with that?) My posts are my opinion only, if anyone reading this thread, or others like it, take an interest & use it to do their own research/ask questions then good, that's what debate is all about. At the end of the day owners do what they think best for their dogs & good for them :)
 
@BA you were comparing the MMR vaccine schedule to that of a dogs-it makes no sense to do that hence my explanation of different vaccine types. Immune response and memory depends on the vaccine and the animal, they are not all the same. Scientific advice changes based on science, not on opinion.
 
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