Valuation of a horse for insurance purposes...

Delicious_D

Delicious_D

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Ok, basically Dee's insurance is due for renewal soon. Currently she is insured for £15,000, as this was the most she could be insured for without having to supply xrays. As much as i love dee and as much as i know she will never be sold etc, i need a realistic valuation of her current value. By this i do not mean just ridden, but also as a broodmare. She is a graded pink papered hanovairan with Donnerschwee/Sao Paulo/Sandro bloodlines. Competed upto unaffiliate medium and affiliate elementary, had a few soundness issues of late but now sound. She wil never compete again but will be my happy hacker. Currently she is insured for competition, breeding, mortality, vet fee's etc. She is not insured for loss of use and tbh i dont want to insure her for this (and i dont think i can now tbh).

I need an honest valuation of my mare, i was thinking around £5,000-£7,000k mark. Am i utterly bonkers?

I love dee but the premiums of her insurance are high enough now, i dont see why i should keep her value at £15,000.

Valentine's day chocolates and kisses from Dee as a thanks for answers.
 
As she is likely to have exclusions now you are really only insuring her for any injury or vets bills that arise from anything she will still be covered for, in the unlikely and hopefully it will not happen, event that causes her to need to be pts you may get paid for whatever you value her at but unless she is a proven broodmare I think your valuation would be considered unrealistic if it came down to them actually paying out. I hope that makes sense:)

I would insure for a nominal amount, hope she lives a long and happy life and put the money saved into a fund for the next horse, if you want one;)
 
As much as you love her and with what you have seen her through, I would say that if you do not intend to breed from her and all she is to you is a happy hacker then her breeding is irrelevant and she is worth what you would spend on another happy hacker. I suppose with all the veterinary care she has had the insurers will exclude various bits anyway and if loss of use is not an issue, why insure her at all or perhaps for what veterinary cover you can get? For the cost of the premiums you could go out and buy another in the event of something awful happening to her. Sorry, that sounds harsh but do you see what I mean?
 
be positive said:
As she is likely to have exclusions now you are really only insuring her for any injury or vets bills that arise from anything she will still be covered for, in the unlikely and hopefully it will not happen, event that causes her to need to be pts you may get paid for whatever you value her at but unless she is a proven broodmare I think your valuation would be considered unrealistic if it came down to them actually paying out. I hope that makes sense:)

I would insure for a nominal amount, hope she lives a long and happy life and put the money saved into a fund for the next horse, if you want one;)
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I havent worked out whats no longer covered :P probably quicker to say whats covered :P. All jokes aside she actually doesnt have that many exclusions *touches wood*. Hoping to put her in foal this year, there is no saying she is proven and as i have plans to breed just the one foal from her for me, i only really want insurance of vet fees, 3rd party and death. I have no idea how to value for insurance, to me she is priceless but them i am emotionally biased. :)

Bobbly said:
As much as you love her and with what you have seen her through, I would say that if you do not intend to breed from her and all she is to you is a happy hacker then her breeding is irrelevant and she is worth what you would spend on another happy hacker. I suppose with all the veterinary care she has had the insurers will exclude various bits anyway and if loss of use is not an issue, why insure her at all or perhaps for what veterinary cover you can get? For the cost of the premiums you could go out and buy another in the event of something awful happening to her. Sorry, that sounds harsh but do you see what I mean?
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We are breeding from her this year, but it will probably only be the one foal and its for me, not for commercial sale. I only really want insurance for vet fee's, 2rd part etc. Doesnt dound harsh at all, :) just honest and nothing that i havent already thought. Ive had hours of conversations with many different people regarding Delicia. She is sound now, but if she were to become unsound etc what then? She isnt insured for the injury she has now, but in reality the exclusions are very few. She is insured for the main issues i.e broken bones, colic etc, all the really expensive proceedures, but i want to save money as i resent having to pay out so much for what is essenital a well bred and pretty field ornament ;).
 
Billie1007 said:
I would take it down to about 3k D x
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My thoughts too. Im also considering that even if she dies, the insurance would only pay out on their percieved value of her, and not how much shes insured for.

Potential in a year and a bits time im going to have to pay out for her insuarance a foals insurance. There is no point having fully comp. if its a show car you know?
 
I think £7000 is rather ambitious. You can buy very all bred brodmares in Germany for a lot less. Also if she has not had a foal yet it could be argued that she is not yet a proven broodmare.

Do bear in mind that if the worst happened and you lost D it is very likely that a loss adjuster will be appointed who is likely to question a high value for a horse with soundness issues. I speak from experience having lost a few horses over the last few years. Even when I have agreed a valuation when renewing my policy I have then had to have extensive discussions with the loss adjuster.
 
I agree eggs, in hind sight £7k is a bit dear, but i think this is where my emotions kicked in. I can seemingly value anyones horse but my own, and ill put my hands up to it. If i were to value her between £3k-£5k would have be more realistic? Bear in mind she is sound now and soundness issues were not hereditory but due to dee pulling a tendon, nu surgery etc. Just some shockwave therapy and rest. The real costs were in trying to find out what the issues were inthe first place! She does have KS, however, i am questioning if this is coincidental as she doesnt react to her back anymore and since more intensive treatment in the problem area, shes sound as a pound. Im enforcing the time off, not the vets. :)
 
It's worth calling your insurer. when i reduced the value of all of my horses on their policies, i could only reduce it to half of the purchase cost or perceived value when first insured.
 
I would call your insurer for their opinion, or another one if you don't want to discuss it with yours. They will only pay out what they think she is worth, regardless of what you decide.
 
Sprig said:
I would call your insurer for their opinion, or another one if you don't want to discuss it with yours. They will only pay out what they think she is worth, regardless of what you decide.
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This is what i thought, having said this, as i own 1/3rd of dee its not just my opinion but it seems silly to over-insure her as im just throwning money away.
 
Sprig said:
I would call your insurer for their opinion, or another one if you don't want to discuss it with yours. They will only pay out what they think she is worth, regardless of what you decide.
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this ^


i dont want to sound rude so please dont take it this way! if your only gooing for vet's fees - then why not insure for the minimum of 1k?

im assuming you wont cover for loss of use as shes a happy hacker now? (as that would be different)?

my pony is less than the 1k value - shes worth a lot more but i only want vet's fees and no intention of paying more than what i have to per month


just a thought?

i know a couple of people with horses worth a nice sum but 1k cover gives the necessary vet fees :)
 
I wont cover for loss of use becuase its actually really hard to get loss of use nowadays. The reasoning behind not insuring for £1000 is in the event of her death, this is the most that will be paid out. :(
 
death cover though - ive tried to claim for this - is VERY hard to get.

mine was agreeance with my vet and BEVA guidelines are very specific and you must have a postmortem (my insurance wanted this) to even have it put through - which i believe is 800-1000 alone (they may even chuck the claim out the window then)

i personally even knowing this wouldnt have had my horse cut up because of this so it would have been no use to me personally.

tbh your best bet mabey to speak to breeders - as your no longer in the ridden market - breeders will know the value of D better :)

good luck- ive been there claiming insurance for 12 months and still lost my mare - its a nightmare...they do not pay out easily.
 
I lowered mine from £8k to £3k in value (purely to reduce premiums) and they didn't say a thing. The savings in premiums over the last two years has been a great help. Both my horses are worth over £3k, but that is what I could realistically spend on a reasonable youngster to bring on, or a reasonable rc horse if I was to replace them..
 
noodle_ said:
death cover though - ive tried to claim for this - is VERY hard to get.

mine was agreeance with my vet and BEVA guidelines are very specific and you must have a postmortem (my insurance wanted this) to even have it put through - which i believe is 800-1000 alone (they may even chuck the claim out the window then)

i personally even knowing this wouldnt have had my horse cut up because of this so it would have been no use to me personally.

tbh your best bet mabey to speak to breeders - as your no longer in the ridden market - breeders will know the value of D better :)

good luck- ive been there claiming insurance for 12 months and still lost my mare - its a nightmare...they do not pay out easily.
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Oh how awful for you :(. I wouldnt want a post mortum on dee, the idea of her cut up makes me want to cry, and no amount of answers would lessen the pain of loosing her. :(

I like the idea re: asking breeders to valuations, i will send some emails off :).

Honey08 said:
I lowered mine from £8k to £3k in value (purely to reduce premiums) and they didn't say a thing. The savings in premiums over the last two years has been a great help. Both my horses are worth over £3k, but that is what I could realistically spend on a reasonable youngster to bring on, or a reasonable rc horse if I was to replace them..
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TBH if i were to buy another horse in dee's departure (sorry dee, morbid topic!) i would prefer to buy a youngster for no more then £2k-£3k. I need to talk the the insurers i think, ive never had to consider this until i realised her insurance was up for renewal. :(
 
Delicious_D said:
Oh how awful for you :(. I wouldnt want a post mortum on dee, the idea of her cut up makes me want to cry, and no amount of answers would lessen the pain of loosing her. :(

I like the idea re: asking breeders to valuations, i will send some emails off :).




TBH if i were to buy another horse in dee's departure (sorry dee, morbid topic!) i would prefer to buy a youngster for no more then £2k-£3k. I need to talk the the insurers i think, ive never had to consider this until i realised her insurance was up for renewal. :(
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i hope you dont think im being super negative but insurers are my bug bear atm!....

i had no idea about a post mortem and most people dont claim death and if they do its "too late" (as post mortems and reports etc need planning before euthanasia)!


mabey speak to the insurance company too (who you with?)....they will im sure be honest with you?

or do it as an anonymous thing "new horse owner etc.." if possible? just to get an idea IF its beneficial to you do have a higher value or not? (as stupid and morbid as it sounds but you get me)!

:)
 
wench said:
If you want a payout in the event of death you have to pay a vet to do a post mortom.
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I know :( Its a decision i would make at that moment and would depend solely on the issues dee had. A catestrophic injury per se, dee's welfare is paramount to any possible payout.

noodle_ said:
i hope you dont think im being super negative but insurers are my bug bear atm!....

i had no idea about a post mortem and most people dont claim death and if they do its "too late" (as post mortems and reports etc need planning before euthanasia)!


mabey speak to the insurance company too (who you with?)....they will im sure be honest with you?

or do it as an anonymous thing "new horse owner etc.." if possible? just to get an idea IF its beneficial to you do have a higher value or not? (as stupid and morbid as it sounds but you get me)!

:)
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No dont think you are being negative at all. :) I have been super lucky with my insurance company (im with KBIS). My friends havent been so lucky, blown suspensories after stemcell therapy arent a loss of use aparently!!!

I might try the 'new owner' thing, but they would have to take details down about the horse etc first wouldnt they?

Its not stupid (a lil bit morbid) but necessary imho. I have to be pragmatic. Dee has a hope for life, but one day that life will end, and as some of the threads on this forum have shown lately, death can be sudden and unexpected. :(
 
I have had a few PTS and none of them met BEVA guidelines - there is no way I'd wait until the horse was in pain and had to be done then and there. Unless they break a leg/have inoperable colic etc then I see few other reasons you'd have them PTS and meet BEVA guidelines. Mine have all been insured for £250, but still have full vets fees cover etc, as I don't know a single person who's claimed for death and received a pay out. I paid around £20 per month with a well known company with the highest cover.
 
I had a horse put down a few years ago now, he had a tumour. I informed the insurance company to cancel the insurance and didn't even think about a pay out on his death.

Without my asking, they sent a cheque for his insured value.
 
zoon said:
I have had a few PTS and none of them met BEVA guidelines - there is no way I'd wait until the horse was in pain and had to be done then and there. Unless they break a leg/have inoperable colic etc then I see few other reasons you'd have them PTS and meet BEVA guidelines. Mine have all been insured for £250, but still have full vets fees cover etc, as I don't know a single person who's claimed for death and received a pay out. I paid around £20 per month with a well known company with the highest cover.
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My mum is sold on the who 'but she's insured in the event of her Death' senario the insurers told her, me not so much. Zoon, thats very sad, its bad enough to loose your best friend but to fight for a payout. :(

I know one person who wanted to wait to fulfil the BEVA guidelines, horse almost became a welfare care before they decided to PTS. They didnt recieve a payout. :(

I only know one person who did recive a pay out, for a broken leg. A freak accident :(. Horse had to be PTS as was bleeding to death. :(
 
I had a post mortem on my horse and it was under £200!! No where near £1000 Noodle. I had it done as we had been fighting to save him for 4 months and we just wanted to know what it was :( I did get a death payout as he met BEVA guidelines.

DD I would recommend getting a professional that knows your horse to value your horse and also speak to your insurance company. I think she's retired now isn't she? So her only value is probably as a broodmare, not as a ridden comp horse.
 
I think you need to look at the difference in premiums if she's insured for, say, 3K for death vs just third party / vets fees, and then add the cost of a postmortem, before you decide if it's worth insuring her for death at all. TBH you're almost certainly better off just saving the money you would have spent on premiums and post mortem and putting that towards another youngster. It's about weighing risk, but in D's case the value has already been lost (sorry) it's not the same as someone not insuring and losing the money / value when the horse dies :( I hope that makes sense! x
 
Mine isn't insured for death. When the time comes, whether it be an emergency following an accident, sudden illness or at the end of a long road, the last thing I want to do is deal with an insurance company and make sure they feel the i's are dotted and the t's crossed, either before or after the event.

I don't know how much added premium there is for mortality, but maybe get some quotes for with and without and make a judgement call on how well off you will be emotionally/financially at the time x
 
galaxy said:
I had a post mortem on my horse and it was under £200!! No where near £1000 Noodle. I had it done as we had been fighting to save him for 4 months and we just wanted to know what it was :( I did get a death payout as he met BEVA guidelines.

DD I would recommend getting a professional that knows your horse to value your horse and also speak to your insurance company. I think she's retired now isn't she? So her only value is probably as a broodmare, not as a ridden comp horse.
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Shes no longer a comp horse, no. She will be my happy hacker and bit of fun, but i will take it easy with her. She has nothing to prove! (Doesnt say i might not enter a small walk and trot class HC every now and then ;) ).

Sher value really is only as a broodmare and untill she has a foal at foot thats debateable. Its a ****** really when you have to weigh up your expectations verses the reality of the situation. In the space of 5 months Delicia's market value has plummeted, but in the grand scheme of things, she will never be sold so did she really have a value per se the begin with?



Theocat said:
I think you need to look at the difference in premiums if she's insured for, say, 3K for death vs just third party / vets fees, and then add the cost of a postmortem, before you decide if it's worth insuring her for death at all. TBH you're almost certainly better off just saving the money you would have spent on premiums and post mortem and putting that towards another youngster. It's about weighing risk, but in D's case the value has already been lost (sorry) it's not the same as someone not insuring and losing the money / value when the horse dies :( I hope that makes sense! x
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I agree about the lost value as a ridden horse ( :( ), but hoping she will retain value as a broodmare. Hence why i said i was lucky she was a mare when thgis first happened. It makes sense but me no likey :(.

JenJ said:
Mine isn't insured for death. When the time comes, whether it be an emergency following an accident, sudden illness or at the end of a long road, the last thing I want to do is deal with an insurance company and make sure they feel the i's are dotted and the t's crossed, either before or after the event.

I don't know how much added premium there is for mortality, but maybe get some quotes for with and without and make a judgement call on how well off you will be emotionally/financially at the time x
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I agree with you JJ re: at the end of the road. :(
I havent a clue tbh, it was an added extra on my insurance and really wasnt one i questioned. May i reitterate my insurance company has been fabulous! All dee's treatment has been paid for and they have supported us so much.

I was offered over £40,000 for her as a 3 year old at her grading... i should have taken it ;). I wonder what tesco's are offering...

All jokign aside, after the worry then the joy that she would be ok, now comes the practicality of the situation.
 
I'd google values of broodmares with good bloodlines then. That's all you can do. Maybe contact some breeders and see what they say. As you say, she's isn't even a proven broodie yet even....
 
Just valued mine for insurance because there's no point in over insuring them - it just costs you more and you won't get it paid. The wording on most policies is that they will pay insured or market value, whichever is lower. So if you insure your horse for a value higher than market value then you're just wasting money as the premium is calculated on a percentage of the value insured.

I called Brightwells and had a really good conversation with a valuer. He would be consulted by insurance companies for market value, so he's in an excellent position to advise what that value might actually be. I wasn't far out on mine - slightly over, but that's why I called them - to get a valuation based on the market now rather than what I insured them for this time last year. I have reduced their values accordingly and saved a bit on premiums. For an accurate valuation you have to pay for them to come out, but they will give an idea over the phone. Give them a ring......!
 
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