Very difficult young wamblood! HELP

NinaMarie1989

NinaMarie1989

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Hi everyone, I bought my horse almost a year ago, and he is so lovely on the ground, cheeky, sometimes naughty. He's only just turned 4 in April.

I backed him in August as a 3 yo, had a few problems getting him to go forward and napping, but he soon got out of the habit and was going absolutely brilliantly... beach gallops, big main roads, big lorries and tractors and everything, couldn't fault him at all... he was better in company, but would go out by himself.

Then in march while riding on the beach on my own, as soon as I asked for a trot or a canter, he would spin and bolt in the direction of home, I then carried on making him walk until he was going forward willingly then turned for home.
The next day I thought, I'll try that again, bring a friend and some lunge lines, he was so naughty and was doing the same thing, so we lunged him and I hopped on to ride home and he was rushing, so I asked him to stand talked to him 'stop being silly we're going home now' pat pat good boy leg on 'walk on' and he proceeded to launch me in the air, and he ran home... leaving me winded, trying my best to run while breathing like a beast!

I put it down to it being spring and thought 'ill turn him away for a month or so' and hope he just calms down, until a week later my farrier came said 'that is the worst thing you could of done', so the next day I rode him, not far, just half a mile down the road and through a wood and he was good as gold! Tried again the day after and i could get him off the drive with out him bucking, I was on my own so, I obviously couldn't keep going at him on my own.

I've done loads of lunging with him, tried hacking him numerous times with no success, I have hacked him out once more but with my friends mare... but have only tried that once.

I have sent him away to a lady who is also stumped with what to do with him... While she was riding last night just in walk, there were horses in other field and he just kept napping, and bucking and nearly throwing her off.

I do hopefully have a plan for when he comes back... and I am going to try hacking him with others again, to hopefully get him to gain some confidence... as it could be separation anxiety?
We have limited facilities, I backed him and long reined him on a private lane, we don't have a school as of yet or near by.

But I was HOPING somebody has gone through the same thing and could offer me some advice?

Please bear in mind he has had all the checks, hes up to date with teeth etc, and isn't in any pain, he is just being an A* hole!
I know warmblood mature mentally later than others, but I can't just wait until he's 10/12 before I can do anything with him!!

So frustrating, as he was going to well, and he has tons of potential :@

Any help or advice would be great, Thank you.

Please no nasty comments!
 
Was he turned away at all? He is still very young and probably needs some time off to chill and get his head around things.
 
You say you backed him in Aug last year. Has he been working ever since? If yes, that could be part of your problem. Im certainly no expert with young horses but i would have backed him so he was walking trotting and hacking with a friend short distances, then i would have turned him away till March and started again then. It could be you have just overloaded his brain, asking too much.
I would try hacking him in company rather than on his own at the moment to give him confidence and not build up any issues.
My boy is just 5 and i mainly hack in company. He does hack on his own but i only do short distances that he knows well so as not to build any bad experiences. When hes with his friend he goes a long way and meets alsorts.
 
Yes August, and rode around once a week from november time. I never went far with him on his own, just to the beach which is 10 minutes down the road, which he did all the time, and to be honest it wasnt very often we went on our own, he was always fine with a person walking aswell. He hasn't been hammered or anything.
 
Sorry i wasnt implying you had hammered him. I was more thinking of the brain overload rather than body overload. Im sure others will have suggestions for sorting the problem. Im lucky cos my boy is and Irish Draught and certainly has a different easier outlook on life than the warmbloods ive owned. Good luck with sorting him out.
 
It does not sound as though this lady is good enough to sort him out. It is very unfortunate that this has happened, and I think you may have to ask her just to school him so he goes back to being obedient.
I am not a great believer in lungeing youngsters, I am never sure what this achieves, I do a lot of long reining out and about, to ensure horse is obedient and knows voice commands. So really I would be going back to basics, remove pressures for a bit then try again with an instructor or very good rider at home. Even with limited facilities you can restore confidence in the horse [if this is the problem] by hacking out in company, even if you are the company.
I would not ask him to stand still, keep moving forward , try to vary the route, he has developed "home-itis". Watch those ears, if he starts thinking for himself, take over, trot on, change his routine, do fartlek, keep ringing the changes so he has to pay attention to your demands.
Cut out any fluffy bunny behaviours [your behaviours] make sure he know he is not a pet, he is there to work for a living, man-up OP, you are the boss, he is your student.
 
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She is trying to school him, but the more pressure she puts on him, the more he plays up. I started out long reining him in august and he was brill... so I did this again march thinking it would improve him, before lunging and he was a nightmare, spinning, bucking, rearing, kicking out, so i started lunging him in the field hoping he would improve, listen to voice commands and have some respect, which he did, but still had no respect when being ridden. I have been treating him the way I have when I backed him, minus the hacking out really as I thought it was a bit risky :/
 
He sounds like he is trying to take over the decisions and be in charge I would get a really good and kind ground work instructor to start him on long lines again and get him calm and listening out and about before getting back on. It is much easier to handle a horse from on top but on the floor is where the manners are established
 
It sounds to me as though he needs the pressure taking off him, not pushing onto him.

If he were mine, I'd turn him away for at least 3 months, then bring him back as if he'd not even been backed before. Slowly and gently. What youngsters need is consistency, so don't ride him once a week, that's going to do him no good whatsoever. He needs daily work at a level that he's comfortable with, don't keep schooling him over & over. Good luck!
 
windand rain said:
He sounds like he is trying to take over the decisions and be in charge I would get a really good and kind ground work instructor to start him on long lines again and get him calm and listening out and about before getting back on. It is much easier to handle a horse from on top but on the floor is where the manners are established
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^^^^^this
It is quite normal for everything to go smoothly at first, then rebellion sets in, he started on the long reining and "won " the battle.
So he then starts out hacking, and has had quite a few victories. You will have to sort this out, obviously, if you can't win these battles you will need to sell him, sry but that is the truth, unpleasant though it maybe.
 
JennBags said:
It sounds to me as though he needs the pressure taking off him, not pushing onto him.

If he were mine, I'd turn him away for at least 3 months, then bring him back as if he'd not even been backed before. Slowly and gently. What youngsters need is consistency, so don't ride him once a week, that's going to do him no good whatsoever. He needs daily work at a level that he's comfortable with, don't keep schooling him over & over. Good luck!
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I also agree with this solution, but I would want to make sure we had established some basic acceptable behaviour before turnout, I assume he has company in his field.
I think OP has limited facilities which is unfortunate, he is not getting the variety of work he may require. Some of these horses are difficult to deal with, its not uncommon.
 
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We have a four year old wb, they are very slow to develop, we are only working him three times a week maximum for about fifteen minutes.
We have always had wb horses and have learnt the hard way that if they feel under pressure they jack it in very very quickly and then are very tricky to get right
 
I had something quite similar with my homebred warmblood. I found long-reining helped. I think if you can't long rein him on your own, you won't have a chance of getting him to hack alone. With mine I managed never to let him come home/not go out when he napped, and I hacked him out every day on his own for 3 months without a day off. To start with it would take us upto an hour to go 1/2 a mile. I always did round or lolipop shaped rides and I went out super early before too many spooky things were around. I am very lucky with my hacking and couldn't have done it on busy roads. When he refused to go forward I reined back until we were past whatever the 'issue' was and then turned and asked him to go forward. Once he was hacking alone I introduced other things. I tried eventing him but gave up after getting eliminated a couple of times. He is still too spooky for me to jump competitively, but he has still turned out to be my horse of a lifetime. He hunts well, including side-saddle in Leicestershire and has been placed at county level shows. For the last couple of years I have concentrated on dressage and he competes at medium, and I'm hoping he'll go advanced. He hacks alone twice a week and is still sharp, and will occasionally whip round (I sometimes sit it and I sometimes don't!) If I could pass on any advice it would be 1) Get him to go anywhere on long reins before you try and ride him. Start by lunging on 2 reins, then long rein in school, then out in company, then alone. Then hack him out every day on your own. If you have to, rein back past a problem. If that doesn't work get off and lead till he's past whatever's the problem, then get back on. If you can't manage this you can either find someone who specialises in serious problem horses to school him for you who can deal with it, or accept you won't be able to hack on your own (which lots of warmbloods don't), or try to sell him to someone who can cope. I think warmbloods brains are slow to mature, but they do need to learn to do as they are told, and I don't think turning him away before this problem is sorted is going to help. Ideally make some progress, then give him (and you!) a holiday. Good luck!
 
MrsD123 said:
It does not sound as though this lady is good enough to sort him out. It is very unfortunate that this has happened, and I think you may have to ask her just to school him so he goes back to being obedient.
I am not a great believer in lungeing youngsters, I am never sure what this achieves, I do a lot of long reining out and about, to ensure horse is obedient and knows voice commands. So really I would be going back to basics, remove pressures for a bit then try again with an instructor or very good rider at home. Even with limited facilities you can restore confidence in the horse [if this is the problem] by hacking out in company, even if you are the company.
I would not ask him to stand still, keep moving forward , try to vary the route, he has developed "home-itis". Watch those ears, if he starts thinking for himself, take over, trot on, change his routine, do fartlek, keep ringing the changes so he has to pay attention to your demands.
Cut out any fluffy bunny behaviours [your behaviours] make sure he know he is not a pet, he is there to work for a living, man-up OP, you are the boss, he is your student.
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I echo this - my daughter's 7 year old ex-racer had similar issues, and she was advised to pay more attention to the horse's ears! Any indication that the horse was thinking of turning for home, daughter changed direction, pace, turned a circle, sang a song (yes really!)... anything to take the mare's mind off thinking of running home. It took time and confidence, but it was worth it - and definitely stop the 'fluffy bunny' thing - be firm, and the horse will be thankful that someone is taking the lead. Horses are herd animals and need a leader; as a youngster he's needing guidance, but if he feels he's not getting that from you he'll feel the need to take charge himself, and that will involve heading for safety (home). I would also try to establish good communication from the ground; working on walking respectfully whilst being led, backing up, turning corners without barging into you will all stand you both in good stead when he's ridden. Stick at it, and you'll surely see some results. Good luck!
 
He doe's have manners on the ground, leading him around the yard, to and from the field etc, if he so much as steps out of line and I inhale loud he *****s himself. He was hellish to long rein at one point, but I did manage him, and MADE him go where I wanted, when I wanted, it was hard but I coped, and I wouldn't take him home until he was walking calm and loose, and even on the way home I would turn him back round, and if he fought me, I'd fight back. But he was backing up into cars and all sorts, and thats when I thought it would be safer to lunge at home (double lunge) to get him listening before I were to take him out again and it took a few weeks but he does it no bother now, so when he comes home I'll start with longreining again. I've tried babying him... it sometimes works, sometimes doesn't, when he's tried to throw me off, I've cracked him on the backside to make him go forward, sometimes works sometimes doesn't, I've tried to just sit to his bucks to show I'm not going anywhere, but its not always successful, as they are VERY big bucks.

I probably will start from scratch again, ie, long reining him out, in and out of company, then be lead out, then small hacks in company, like suggested, I just thought I'd ask, see if anyone has any tips.

Certainly not selling him.
Thanks Guys.
 
NinaMarie1989 said:
Then in march while riding on the beach on my own, as soon as I asked for a trot or a canter, he would spin and bolt in the direction of home, I then carried on making him walk until he was going forward willingly then turned for home.
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This sentence rings alarm bells with me - are your hacking routes the kind where you have to turn back round to go home, or do you do circular routes?
 
Sometimes we would turn back yeah :/ if we were on our own.. never thought of it that way.
Have turned around on occasion in company also, but would also do circular routes, and not always go the same way (there are 2 circular routes)
 
I would always do a circular route, rather than turning around and see if that helps (once you can get him out the yard that is!).
 
Rather than turning him away for a while, what about just not hacking him for a while? Do some fun schooling, maybe get him out to a few little events etc. and just things really fun for him, do things that he does enjoy for a while? Maybe he's just a bit bored.

Having had a warmblood years ago who was a real battle to hack out, I totally sympathise! That's what put me off warmbloods for life (although I do have another one who is lovely, but I think most are so quirky with weird attitudes I cant be bothered with them!).
 
I feel your pain :( Im having similar issues at the moment with my new young horse and its not much fun! Ive got in some professional help as hes such a big lad and I know I need some help. Things were going great during our honeymoon period, we've hit the testing me period now and Im hoping we come through the other side. I think its the fear of the unknown for me. My last horse threw much worse at me and I dealt with it with out thinking but for some reason Ive had a massive confidence knock with this lad. Hes a big sweet baby but he's getting a bit big for his shoes when being ridden at the moment.
Thanks for posting and good luck!
 
NinaMarie1989 said:
I probably will start from scratch again, ie, long reining him out, in and out of company, then be lead out, then small hacks in company, like suggested, I just thought I'd ask, see if anyone has any tips.
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But you've already done that and now he has learnt his evasion tricks. Unless you can be sure that this time around you'll be able to cope with that behaviour he'll only be reinforcing his bad behaviour. In my mind if there's nothing physically wrong with him and its not a fear response then its bad behaviour.


NinaMarie1989 said:
I have sent him away to a lady who is also stumped with what to do with him... While she was riding last night just in walk, there were horses in other field and he just kept napping, and bucking and nearly throwing her off.
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If she's stumped then she's not helping so I'd get him out of there immediately. My advice would be to sent him to a pro who's used to producing young horses and let them teach him that sort of behaviour is totally unacceptable.
 
I have to agree that the lady he has gone to is not the right lady for the job. She may be brilliant at what she normally does, but a "stumped" pro is not what this horse needs.

He's a WB, backed at 3 which is fairly normal, but he's had to significant time turned away. Also, young horses, especially warmbloods IMO need consistency. It might feel better to only do one day a week, but it's not what the horse needs. Usually a 3 day on, two day off or similar system is best as it repeats the lessons regularly enough for the horse to lean, but not so much that it is overfaced. Then you can turn away for a few months or over the winter and bring them back. I don't believe every horse stringently needs time away, but the vast vast majority massively benefit from it. I don't want to get into a breed debate, but generally speaking, a young warmblood that becomes disinterested can become a dangerous beast or at least, a difficult one.

I would not bother going back to basics. I would probably turn him away for the summer now and in 3 months time, send him off to a pro yard who have no problem with horses like this to have them restart him. I would also advise you going for lessons with that yard on him for a week before you bring him home. It's a good handover opportunity to learn what they have done and how they have done it, so that you can continue the same way when you get him home.
 
_GG_ said:
I have to agree that the lady he has gone to is not the right lady for the job. She may be brilliant at what she normally does, but a "stumped" pro is not what this horse needs.

He's a WB, backed at 3 which is fairly normal, but he's had to significant time turned away. Also, young horses, especially warmbloods IMO need consistency. It might feel better to only do one day a week, but it's not what the horse needs. Usually a 3 day on, two day off or similar system is best as it repeats the lessons regularly enough for the horse to lean, but not so much that it is overfaced. Then you can turn away for a few months or over the winter and bring them back. I don't believe every horse stringently needs time away, but the vast vast majority massively benefit from it. I don't want to get into a breed debate, but generally speaking, a young warmblood that becomes disinterested can become a dangerous beast or at least, a difficult one.

I would not bother going back to basics. I would probably turn him away for the summer now and in 3 months time, send him off to a pro yard who have no problem with horses like this to have them restart him. I would also advise you going for lessons with that yard on him for a week before you bring him home. It's a good handover opportunity to learn what they have done and how they have done it, so that you can continue the same way when you get him home.
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^^^^^^^ this sums it all up, and is the reason good young unbroken horses cost a lot less than well schooled young horses ready to go.
If we look at those experienced with bringing on WBs [ some might consider to be a breed bred by pros for pros] you will see that they have their own ideas, but I am pretty sure they also have reasonably good facilities and very good riders, so they are not going to experience these setbacks, because they know how to handle any behaviours .......... this is why professional competition yards do well, they have the facilities, the staff, and the horses.
 
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You may ask what is the difference between a good recreation rider and a pro? Experience, education, determination and attitude.

Mother of experienced junior show jumper assured me her child could ride.......... well not really, she can sit on top and point at fences.
She will never be good enough to be a pro because she thinks she knows it all, but in fact the ponies are doing all the work, not the child.
She jumped my boy, obviously only one session ever, because she does not listen to me!
Then when send them "up the road" to cool off, returns in five minutes because pony napped, and she has never experienced a nap so she brought him home! Thanks!
 
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MrsD123 said:
You may ask what is the difference between a good recreation rider and a pro? Experience, education, determination and attitude.

Mother of experienced junior show jumper assured me her child could ride.......... well not really, she can sit on top and point at fences.
She will never be good enough to be a pro because she thinks she knows it all, but in fact the ponies are doing all the work, not the child.
She jumped my boy, obviously only one session ever, because she does not listen to me!
Then when send them "up the road" to cool off, returns in five minutes because pony napped, and she has never experienced a nap so she brought him home! Thanks!
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Absolutely!

A young girl I used to coach had a total strop with her pony in one lesson because the pony, whilst very talented, was a total pain in the ass at times and really needed riding through it. Young rider one day wants to be a top eventer. This is what I said to her then and what I will say to anyone else when she asked me to convince her mum to buy her a "good" pony...

A good horse will teach you how to be a good passenger. A challenging horse will teach you how to ride.

I went on to tell her that to get to the top in any of the disciplines, unless you have millions in the bank, you will not be able to afford horses that will get you there by simply being a passenger, so putting in the hard work now and learning how to teach horses what we want, work through issues and become an effective rider is what will enable us to cope with anything thrown at us.
 
Wow, I am blown away by this post and not in a good way.

Get some GOOD professional help now before its too late. Spend some money on getting it done properly. At 4/5 years old more horses are ruined than at any other age. You cannot cut costs with this sort of thing. Get professionals who are respected and reputable.
 
LEC said:
Wow, I am blown away by this post and not in a good way.

Get some GOOD professional help now before its too late. Spend some money on getting it done properly. At 4/5 years old more horses are ruined than at any other age. You cannot cut costs with this sort of thing. Get professionals who are respected and reputable.
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I don't think OP has mentioned costs to be fair, I just think she is a bit stuck, and like many many before her does not realise what is " a horse" ...................
Is there a big difference between her and the lady [wants endurance pony] who came to buy my boy [needs more schooling]. Quote "he wont need schooling as daughter wants to learn Western". "we are in to natural horsemanship...... we will put him in a field for three months to bond".
Daughter had ridden twice and was struggling with reins, as soon as the lady [30+] got out of car and took her hat out of its original wrapping, I knew it was trouble.
 
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I agree with LEC all our horses are WB and need clear instruction and training. We have a four year old my daughter backed him last year and now having little outings to keep his mind stimulated they are quick thinking and look for ways to outwit you ! We have a professional lady who is amazing with youngsters come once a week and both the horse and my daughter learn from her .

You need the right person to help you . Good Luck.
 
lori ann said:
I agree with LEC all our horses are WB and need clear instruction and training. We have a four year old my daughter backed him last year and now having little outings to keep his mind stimulated they are quick thinking and look for ways to outwit you ! We have a professional lady who is amazing with youngsters come once a week and both the horse and my daughter learn from her .

You need the right person to help you . Good Luck.
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The trouble is that she did not realise this at the beginning, and now has a horse which naps, very unlikely she can sort this out at home. .......... it will take a professional to re-educate, and unless she turns around her own abilities, it will most likely revert within a week or so. The horse is not "bad" it is a "horse". but it may not be the right horse for the OP.
 
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