Very ditchy and backwards-thinking horse

clairebearnz

Well-Known Member
Joined
23 January 2011
Messages
273
Visit site
I've got a 6 year old OTTB. I've had him about a year and he is a bit of an odd duck. He was a dream as a 5 year old, do anything, go anywhere. However, this spring, he turned into an absolute mental case. He was a nightmare on the ground as he was incredibly spooky and reared a lot, he started mounting my mare (although this stopped when he got two hooves to the chest), and he went very hot and very silly under saddle. I eventually turned him out for a few weeks after he broke my finger (kicked me in the hand) and dislocated my thumb (tried to buck me off) on consecutive weekends. Now the grass has died off, sanity has returned but we're left with a few issues.

He's always been a bit of a backwards thinking horse. He's fairly lazy under saddle and I call him Mr Minimum Effort over jumps. He'll jump fine but he's never been one for putting in more effort than he needs to whether the jump is 65cm or 1.10m. He's a nicer mover on the flat but lengthened trot has been our big sticking point. I do feel that a lot of the time, he's not truly through and forward even though he's tracking up. He's behaving better on the ground but will still rear if he thinks he can get away with it.

Jumping wise, he's usually pretty keen and forward but once he stops for whatever reason, he will simply keep stopping. He doesn't do dirty stops, but he props in front and basically refuses to go forward before grinding to a halt. If he's smacked with the whip, he kicked out at the whip and has a tantrum but he will not take a single step forward. The more he's reprimanded, the more he refuses to walk on. I've found the best solution to getting him over things is he doesn't even get to look at it. He comes in at a strong canter and he's going over first time, even if it's ugly as sin and he usually will go. If he stops once, he'll stop 4-5 times. I always get the feeling that he's simply choosing to jump when he feels like it vs actually listening to me.

Ditches, however, have been our big battle. It took 45 minutes of persuasion to convince him over his first ditch (which was all of 60 cm wide!) and he threw the toys in quite spectacular fashion. He's been jumping everything else confidently, so I took him XC schooling yesterday and he....threw the toys about a different ditch. Having a lead made no difference, letting him have a look made no difference, letting him stand made no difference, smacking him made him seriously pissed off. He did jump it. He would not, however, jump the 65cm pallisade and I eventually had to give up as we were losing the light. He confidently popped over far bigger stuff as long as there was no ditches. He gave the pony we were with a lead into the water (where he did insist on stopping and submerging his entire face).

I don't so much mind the ditch issue (although any suggestions on replicating ditch problems would be appreciated) but the propping to a stop and refusing to go forward (even if not facing the jump) worries me as he simply switches off to what I'm asking.

He is, however, damn pretty:

10481969_10153021589940804_175192675244970983_n.jpg


Having grown from this as a 5 year old

10013883_10152918603610804_4577717840960521360_n.jpg


On the flat

10676203_10152950590385804_8219698592689053419_n.jpg


And over fences

10505547_10152922385750804_1453820089027986238_n.jpg
 

NaeNae87

Well-Known Member
Joined
6 August 2012
Messages
1,004
Location
Sunny Perth, Western Australia
Visit site
Ooh he is a bit cute.

My old coach (before he moved over east to try and get on the Aus Olympic Team) would go out to one of our local xc schooling venues and would spend as much time as needed, letting a ditchy horse look at the ditch, walk around it, through it, in it, out of it... etc. Once the horse was happy to approach it at walk, he would go to a trot and repeat. Then in canter. He would do that with sunken roads and coffins as well.

I used that method with my incredibly backwards TB with success. It took about 30 mins, a lot of praise and a huge amount of leg before Bo was comfortable with them and wouldn't rear when presented with one but he hasn't had a problem with them since. :) Good luck. I don't know if it is the "correct" way to help a horse like that, but I have seen it work on multiple horses. The key is patience.
 

unicornystar

Well-Known Member
Joined
5 February 2014
Messages
377
Location
OXON
starbug02.wix.com
Sorry to jump on your thread, re ditchy horses!!

How about if you cannot get your horse NEAR the ditch to walk round it and introuduce it?? lol..........

Including, with company (their best friend in the world) on foot with you that they trust?, dont want to force and make an issue.....
 

Doormouse

Well-Known Member
Joined
24 February 2009
Messages
1,680
Location
The West Country
Visit site
Sorry to jump on your thread, re ditchy horses!!

How about if you cannot get your horse NEAR the ditch to walk round it and introuduce it?? lol..........

Including, with company (their best friend in the world) on foot with you that they trust?, dont want to force and make an issue.....

I had a 14.2hh pony years ago who was a xc machine and never stopped. However, his owner did tell me that when she first had him as a young man she spent 6 hours sitting at the top of a hill because there was a water jump at the bottom and he wouldn't even go down the hill for 6 hours. She sat it out and after 8 hours he went in the water and never looked back!!
 

be positive

Well-Known Member
Joined
9 July 2011
Messages
19,396
Visit site
Sorry to jump on your thread, re ditchy horses!!

How about if you cannot get your horse NEAR the ditch to walk round it and introuduce it?? lol..........

Including, with company (their best friend in the world) on foot with you that they trust?, dont want to force and make an issue.....

I have mocked ditches up in the school for a few tricky customers, start with a pole on the ground then two close together so they go over both, then put something in the bottom to line it, feed bags or plastic wrap is ideal, use this until they are jumping it in numerous different situations, gradually getting it wider , before a jump, after, in grids, under a jump, in different places, then do the same in a field, it should eventually be ready to see a real but inviting ditch but choose very carefully where you go for this stage you ideally need somewhere that has one with guiderails or fenced in, even better if they can go past next to it without having to go over a few times so they know where they are going.
I think some are never truly reliable but most can overcome it given time and a lot of work building up slowly.
 

JFTDWS

Well-Known Member
Joined
4 November 2010
Messages
20,989
Visit site
I introduced mine to ditches and water tray/ mock ditches in hand before I rode them. It's always an option with some horses.
 

RachelFerd

Well-Known Member
Joined
24 April 2005
Messages
3,549
Location
NW
www.facebook.com
Yes, 'lunging' over ditches can actually be a really useful way of getting a horse to accept them. Was always quite a common technique and has probably not been used as much in modern times... however, one of the issues with ditches is that we, as riders, tend to be a little bit trepidatious of that *humongous* jump that a ditchy horse will put in.. and as such, whilst our legs may be saying 'go forwards' in our heads and hearts we are still cautious ourselves. Working the horse on the lunge over a ditch removes that issue. You will need patience - and possibly even food the other other side - but a non-confrontational approach, in hand, on a lunge line with helpers at hand can be a really good tool for a ditchy one :)
 

Mike007

Well-Known Member
Joined
28 May 2009
Messages
8,222
Visit site
Take him drag hunting a few times. he will either "get it" or fail. If he fails then find him a new job or a new home. Horses know damn well that schooling is when we try to get them to do stuff they,d rather not(thankyou very much)! Draghunting however ,is horsey fun time ,if they have even an ounce of xc in them.
 

popsdosh

Well-Known Member
Joined
7 November 2008
Messages
6,388
Visit site
OP have you considered possible physical issues such as ulcers?

I am coming to the conclusion despite my years of experience ulcers have been responsible for all my problem hores over this time,what have I been missing all this time apart from having shares in AZ of course.
 

DollyPentreath

Well-Known Member
Joined
18 February 2005
Messages
1,000
Location
East Anglia
Visit site
If you've ruled out physical issues then find an XC course with loads of really baby ditches and take your time. I once scared my young OTTB with a really badly strided, trappy coffin whilst having an XC lesson with a pro (I would now know better). He was ditchy from that point on. Luckily I had SIEC (Sydney, Aus) up the road with its fantastic facilities and after about 20 mins of not going near a slight depression in the ground (I'm not joking!) we eventually got over it. It probably took me an hour to work up to a ditch palisade. Patience is the key as refusing a ditch can quickly turn to napping. If you have a stop go back to the smallest ditch and work your way up again.
 

LCH611

Well-Known Member
Joined
24 March 2009
Messages
629
Visit site
What is the hacking like around you? Can you go somewhere you can get "off piste" and have to scramble over different terrain, up and down banks hop over drainage gullies etc etc? When we have young horses we do lots and lots of hacking with them and they are expected to go forward unhesitatingly no matter what they have to have to go through/over/round to get from A - B and it seems to really help to get them more forward thinking. We have a very lanky baby ISH in at the moment and my suspicion is that he could be quite ditchy given the chance, so we won't even attempt one until after he has spent some time following his connemara pony chums through the woods in a very relaxed manner where no fuss is made and he is just expected to get on with it. We will build in some drainage ditches without him noticing and hopefully when it comes to proper ditches he will be fine. He was initially very wary of puddles and sticky mud, but after a hack where he was effectively sandwiched between 2 others so he couldn't duck out, he is now confidently ploughing through them in front.
 

Firewell

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 May 2008
Messages
7,817
Visit site
Are you sure he's not feeling pain on landing in his front feet or shoulders or anything? The propping sounds weird... like he would jump but isn't keen on taking off and once he's said no, then it's a lot easier to say no again but he's going when you really make him at the beginning.
It just sounds a bit strange to me! Is he the same to jump on different surfaces?
The ditches, what is he like jumping water trays or things laid on the ground? Is he the same? It.could be that he's a bit confused by the hole in the ground thing and is not understanding the point of jumping a space. He should get it with patience and practice. He's still.young.
I would be worried that with the propping and not wanting to move forwards in general though that there is a sore niggle somewhere!
 

clairebearnz

Well-Known Member
Joined
23 January 2011
Messages
273
Visit site
I'm definitely going to take a lungeline next time and try lunging over ditches to hopefully reinforce forward without my riding playing a role. I'd love to take him hunting but all the hunts down here hunt over wire and I don't trust Fready to get his legs out of the way. Hacking around me isn't great unless I float out and even then, different terrain isn't really an option as we have flat, flatter, or (literal) mountains. He happily wanders around the forest and down the beach though.

I don't think he is as he'll be perfectly fine until he stops and then he just loses all forward motion. Once he's jumped (or clambered or climbed) over the scary object, he'll usually jump it nicely (if a bit eye-boggly) the second time. He's not one who does anything fast so when he stops, he starts stopping from strides out and sort of hops his way towards the scary object in the hope that I'll stop asking.

He's definitely still eye-boggly about water trays etc. He's fine with fillers and actually jumps them quite nicely. He's definitely better over spreads or solid fences than single uprights. He's absolutely confident jumping down drops or into water off a drop. He's one of those horses that when he's confident, he goes great but as soon as one thing sets him off, he can't deal with anything.

We had an interesting dressage lesson on Friday afternoon where we worked on getting him forward and into the bridle. He was rather resistant at first and then suddenly 'got' it and we were powering around the arena in this beautiful forward trot. For the first time, it felt like he was actually taking me around.
 

Pebble101

Well-Known Member
Joined
19 November 2001
Messages
1,883
Visit site
I have a horse that has never like ditches, and doesn't like going faster than walk through water first time! I have had him 13 years and although he has improved I do have to be very confident and positive at them.

He does go over but I wouldn't want to be doing huge ditches. As for water he isn't at all worried about it but I go through a stream a couple of times a week but he is still reluctant to trot through first time. Once he has been through he is fine, it's like he needs to check the footing first to make sure it is safe.

He is very concerned about his own safety :)
 

Festive_Felicitations

Well-Known Member
Joined
7 October 2004
Messages
6,739
Location
Earth, somewhere....
Visit site
Not a guaranteed approach, but Beau used to be (or pretend to be) absolutely petrified of real ditches (would jump recreated versions in the arena happily) and stop dead about 5 strides out snorting and it would take ages to get closer. It wasn't even a case of once he was done it he was fine it was almost back to sq 1 each time. And a coming across a new ditch was defiantly back to square 1. Thankfully we didn't meet many ditches ;)

Then, for various reasons didn't try jumping any for a few years, till was XC schooling one day and there was a decent ditch on the course. I walked up on a loose-ish rein to have a look, not actually expecting to get close and he just walked straight up to it hopped over, and then over the PN fence 2 strides later as I was so surprised we had jumped the ditch that I had no knitting and it was in the way. And they haven't been a problem since.

No idea what changed in the few years in-between, whether he just grew up or 'forgot' that he was terrified of them. Schooling wise he was over all more obedient and forward thinking.

I realise it is not a guaranteed solution but it might be worthwhile working on forwardness and general obedience for a bit before you try ditches again and he might just have a change of mind/heart about them.
 

yeti2104

New User
Joined
18 February 2015
Messages
3
Visit site
The main thing is not to make too much of a drama around him stopping at the ditch, if he gets hit too much he's going to associate ditches with a bad experience. Also YOU are probably associating ditches with a stop and sending him signals, try thinking of something else on the approach, anything else but the impending ditch of doom. Try getting another horse to lead him through ditches and be very patient, also lots of training with small ditches in an area he's familiar with will help. Walk through them and around them often and very gradually up the pace. I can't emphasise patience enough, stick at it and remain calm no matter what he does. The stopping at fences could have all sorts of reasons but it sounds like he's not actually respecting your leg much and doesn't get into a rhythm when jumping. Try to establish a good rhythm that has forward momentum around very small courses and/or jumping poles. If you feel he's becoming too backward or is running off, circle and re-establish the rhythm (don't circle just before a fence!) knocking poles down at this point really doesn't matter that much as he long as he keeps going forward and doesn't refuse. I obviously haven't seen your riding but you may also be doing something that's making him unsure, if it's a small course and you have a good rhythm, no adjustments before the fence should be necessary, you can only be half a stride out...! and at anything below 3'6" he should be able to cope fine.
 
Top