Very fat cob help!!!

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wattamus

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Apologies in advance for any terrible spelling- I'm on my phone and it thinks it knows what I want to say..... M
OK so crippled cob has been gaining a lot of weight, YO fertilised the fields over a month ago as she's overstocked, suddenly all this grass has come through and cobby had gained loads of weight. She's not particularly round/ bloated but has a good covering and a huge crest...... Due to her past treatments she's at high risk of getting lami, I muzzle her as much as I can during the day, but she gets sores so have to be wary. I've tried a green guard and she just rubs her nose until it comes off! I'd like to bring her in but she has arthritis and ceases up. I ride her every other day for forty minutes on average but mainly in walk as she can't do much else due to her 3broken legs! Does anyone have any advice or suggestions as to what they would do in my position? Or any effective exercise tips?
Starvation paddock is pretty much out of the question because if I move to another field I won't be allowed to move back (bearing in mind we have 50 horses on 25/30 acres), it'll be too small and I'll end up having to supplement their food in a couple of months, I just need a solution that will work until the grass stops growing!!
 
Can you section off a small patch? Failing that move her to somewhere where you can properly manage her weight vs turnout.
 
put her in a smaller paddock and supplement with soaked hay or pad the grazing muzzle so it does not rub or move yards, don't just say you can't do things-make those things work. Also get someone to ride her on the days you don't.

you are sentencing your mare to an early grave and lots of pain if you don't do something
 
Are you me? Lol. I have no solutions. I decided in the end that if cobby gets laminitis at least he has had a good happy life up to then. I would PTS for laminitis because there is no point treating it only to turn out and cobby gets it again. Like you I have tried all the obvious solutions to prevent weight gain but they either do not work or worsen other health problems. It is a nightmare situation :(
 
twiggy2 said:
put her in a smaller paddock and supplement with soaked hay or pad the grazing muzzle so it does not rub or move yards, don't just say you can't do things-make those things work. Also get someone to ride her on the days you don't.

you are sentencing your mare to an early grave and lots of pain if you don't do something
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What is your method for padding a grazing muzzle please? It did not work when I tried and was very expensive and time consuming changing the padding every day. It is the nostrils and chin which got the skin rubbed off and bleeding. I padded with gamgee but it still rubbed and I was worried it was restricting the breathing.
 
Like I say I'm trying my best, house has been through a lot and I don't want to lose her to subverting preventable but since her operations she just gains weight by looking at food- before she was on a high calorie diet to keep the weight on! Eugh as soon as my exams are fine in three weeks I'll have so much more time- guess I'll just have to be even more such until then xx
 
I always buy a muzzle a size larger than my horses take in bridles etc, so the muzzle is roomy. I've got sheepskin all over the headcollar part, and duct tape wrapped around the webbing of the muzzle itself. This reduces the friction on the nose/chin. You need to put the duct tape on when the muzzle is completely dry and clean. Works for me, otherwise I also find that they rub.
The Shires deluxe is the best I've found as a starting point. Couldn't get on with greenguard.

My cob is positively skinny - I'm still haying her in the field this year as she's so light. I know she's not prone to laminitis but it's just not fair to let them get like that.
 
Ignore those who think it is easy wattamus, like you I know it is not. Moving yards is not that simple when all the other yards in the area are unsuitable for managing the other health problems or beyond my bank balance. Grass free living would probably work but is prohibitively expensive and I do not have the time to exercise a horse sufficiently who can only walk and would be stabled for the 22hrs a day he was not in the turnout pen. I imagine you have similar troubles.

Edit: millipops thanks for the tip I will try the duct tape. Horse takes an extra full size bridle though so the muzzles fit close not roomy even in the largest size.
 
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I found a Shires bucket type muzzle rubbed, but when I used the same type but a shallower design (I think it is HY - not sure) with the front part cut out for airflow then it has been fine. I use a track strip grazed around the perimeter of the field as well.

The only solution is to restrict her access to the grass, it's not always easy though!
 
Firefly9410 said:
What is your method for padding a grazing muzzle please? It did not work when I tried and was very expensive and time consuming changing the padding every day. It is the nostrils and chin which got the skin rubbed off and bleeding. I padded with gamgee but it still rubbed and I was worried it was restricting the breathing.
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I buy larger muzzles than I am told are needed and then buy the fleecey covers for breast girths, I then cut the muzzle part of the muzzle from the headpiece (hope that makes sense) and stitch the muzzle onto a well fitting old leather headcollar, I have the muzzle hanging loose/low, then put one fleece cover over the front nose part of the muzzle and attach it so it runs all the way up the cheek pieces of the headcollar, then I cut a piece to cover the top edge of the muzzle that sits under the chin. I attach the padding using bailing string.
I only cover the top edges not around the chin and the nostrils-the padding holds the muzzle away from these areas and prevents rubbing under the jaw and on the front of the face.
 
Thanks for the positive replies, believe me when I say I don't want my horse in this state, I with really hard to restrict her diet, I have worked to hard and cried too much to lose her to lami x I will try the duct tape as I have the fluffy sites muzzleand it just rubs her chin so maybe that's the solution :) also really nice to know I'm not on my own :-) x
 
Firefly9410 said:
Ignore those who think it is easy wattamus, like you I know it is not. Moving yards is not that simple when all the other yards in the area are unsuitable for managing the other health problems or beyond my bank balance. Grass free living would probably work but is prohibitively expensive and I do not have the time to exercise a horse sufficiently who can only walk and would be stabled for the 22hrs a day he was not in the turnout pen. I imagine you have similar troubles.

Edit: millipops thanks for the tip I will try the duct tape. Horse takes an extra full size bridle though so the muzzles fit close not roomy even in the largest size.
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No-one said it is easy, but it is doable and just takes effort and forethought-I have 2 muzzles and headcollars set up and ready to use for when one gets broken or she works out how to get one off, as sometimes she does and then she gets it off every day until I change the set up for a while. It just requires effort to stop horses becoming ill due to being fat.
 
Firefly9410 said:
Are you me? Lol. I have no solutions. I decided in the end that if cobby gets laminitis at least he has had a good happy life up to then. I would PTS for laminitis because there is no point treating it only to turn out and cobby gets it again. Like you I have tried all the obvious solutions to prevent weight gain but they either do not work or worsen other health problems. It is a nightmare situation :(
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you are kidding right?


OP, don't know if you can get them, there was an eBay seller doing them last year, there is a type of muzzle from the US called Tough One Easy Breathe-really good and the design leads them to not rub as easily. Other than that duct tape to prevent rubs, rubber grips from bike handlebars (£5 amazon) work really well for padding, change type of muzzle regularly. If all else fails you have to put her in a starvation paddock and buy hay to soak.
Can you work her more often?
 
If you can't muzzle, then you have to sort out an area of restricted grazing or keep her in. There aren't really any other solutions, unfortunately! Even regular exercise isn't enough if the horse has access to too much grass. My sister and I have a lot of trouble with muzzles rubbing, so we have to make sure we restrict out grass early on before it really starts to come through. This year I think I made their "diet paddock" at the start of April using electric fencing and so far *touch wood* we have been able to keep on top of the grass. They don't need a completely bare paddock as one will wind suck if he doesn't have enough food and is prone to colic, so we have to find a balance. So far, they both look a good weight and the grass level in their paddock is about right. They are both retired, so we can't really exercise them. Can you section off your paddock with electric fencing to make a smaller area, if moving really isn't an option? Although tbh I would move, I would rather have to supplement summer grazing with hay than have to deal with a laminitic horse!
 
Faracat no I am not joking! Who would joke about such a thing? I have done my best and I am at the nicest yard in the area which can accommodate his other problems. I cannot work miracles and it would break my heart to lose him but I also cannot start taking out loans I could never repay to facilitate the lifestyle needed by a horse with multiple health problems. Mud fever, COPD, arthritis and sweet itch if not managed would affect him on a daily basis. They are able to be managed well here so do not cause him a problem like they have at other yards. No point keeping a horse alive where there is no quality to that life, that would be cruel. Laminitis is something that cannot hurt him all the time he does not have it and he would be swiftly put out of his misery if he did get it, so that is the thing we risk. I am not a subscriber to the better too soon than too late theory or I would PTS now but I cannot kill something who is currently happy and not suffering. Everything fights to stay alive so I believe euthanasia is only for those suffering. I know that is probably not a popular view going by the amount of people I know who say better too soon than too late but it is my view and he is my horse.

Twiggy2 thanks for sharing your methods. I agree it seems the muzzles are too small even the largest size. Padding does not keep the muzzle away from my horses nose and chin, it closes the gap instead. I think I need a hippo sized muzzle!

Millipops that is a good idea I never thought of that. Thank you. At worst they can only say no, it is worth asking :)
 
Firefly9410 said:
Are you me? Lol. I have no solutions. I decided in the end that if cobby gets laminitis at least he has had a good happy life up to then. I would PTS for laminitis because there is no point treating it only to turn out and cobby gets it again. Like you I have tried all the obvious solutions to prevent weight gain but they either do not work or worsen other health problems. It is a nightmare situation :(
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Maybe not brilliantly put, but I get where you are coming from.

I have a 20yo TB type with raging Cushings.
He hates being stabled now he has encountered 5 years of group retirement - he gets stressy and won't eat much, plus has dust allergy.

What sort of life is it for a non working horse to be shut in a stable, confined to a tiny bare paddock unable to wander & graze or muzzled 24/7? There has to come a point where quality of life comes first.

Keeping weight of a fatty takes mega effort! And we owe it to our horses to make that effort where ever possible. But every horse and owner situation are different. Negligence is never acceptable, but concious decision on management (even if it might shorten life) isn't always wrong.
 
Thanks all, I'll be able to up her exercise after my exams at the end of this month, but am currently up at six, then not back home until half six in evening then have revision to do. I'll section off a bit more field, and put her by herself as other horse can be a bully. Thanks for all advice :-) x fingers crossed ill be able to sort it- poor horse has a long crap summer ahead haha x
 
Keeping horses at their optimum weight is not a "mega effort", it simply requires some thought and action, rather than doing nothing. Allowing a horse to be overweight to the point of illness is just as reprehensible as allowing it to starve. There are many strategies and methods; all require limiting the horse's intake of food and/or increasing it's exercise. In many ways I prefer the style of horsekeeping seen in other countries not blessed with rolling pastures, where many horses are kept in bare sand lots and fed entirely by hand.

Just letting a horse overeat until it gets laminitis, or is in danger of developing it, is beyond wrong.
 
Cortez said:
Keeping horses at their optimum weight is not a "mega effort", it simply requires some thought and action, rather than doing nothing. Allowing a horse to be overweight to the point of illness is just as reprehensible as allowing it to starve. There are many strategies and methods; all require limiting the horse's intake of food and/or increasing it's exercise. In many ways I prefer the style of horsekeeping seen in other countries not blessed with rolling pastures, where many horses are kept in bare sand lots and fed entirely by hand.

Just letting a horse overeat until it gets laminitis, or is in danger of developing it, is beyond wrong.
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Rubbish. For 'some' horses it is mega effort (not mine I hasten to add).

There are lots of ignorant horse owners who do just let their horses get fat, I'm not denying it.

But I can't be doing with judgemental people who make sweeping statements without all facts to hand.
 
If people do not have the time to look after their horses properly and allow them to become ill because of it, then they really should reconsider owning horses. This is not rubbish.
 
Cortez said:
If people do not have the time to look after their horses properly and allow them to become ill because of it, then they really should reconsider owning horses. This is not frubbish.
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I completely agree.

And if people cannot put their horses quality of life above everything else then they should also not own horses.
 
ihatework (ironic in this context btw), putting quality of life above everything else is precisely what Cortez is condoning. People shouldn't be putting their own desire to own a horse when they do not have the time or are too lazy to care for it properly above the horse's welfare.

OP, I think you should reconsider bringing your horse in but just do it during the day and let it out at night with a muzzle on sos he can move her arthritic legs. You can feed a little soaked hay during the day (soak well for at least an hour). There's less sugar in grass at night as the plant uses it up to respire so even if the muzzle comes off or she gets some, it'll be less damaging. You need to exercise your horse a LOT to make up for their calorie intake - as with people, it's always just easier not to take the calories in to begin with than to attempt to work it all off after! Also, if your horse is prone to lami and is gaining weight, it can develop insulin resistance and then any amount of sugar will be immediately harmful (cause inflammation) regardless of whether it is then stored as fat or not. This is time sensitive - you can't wait until the end of the month. I would start immediately.
 
Hi barnacle, yes I'm acting on it now as I know I can't wait until the end of the month, what I meant was, I can't increase my riding time during the week at the minute but can restrict her grazing. I think bringing her in during the day would probably be a good idea too. I'm lucky in the fact that *touch wood* she hasn't got lami yet so I'm trying desperately to keep it that way x
 
And if people cannot put their horses quality of life above everything else then they should also not own horses.[/QUOTE]

but what if you end up in a situation like OP where you have a horse with multiple condition requiring different conflicting management which you can't rehome because no one with any sense will want. There are better options if you have a decent budget, own land, or good fortune to have a understanding livery but if you've non of those then surely then the choice is

A) Make do as best you can
B) PTS horse

More usefully OP

Maybe if you've got a friend at the livery they could lead your cob off their horse when they hack out to give it a bit more exercise.
OR any chance of being allowed to turn out in a menege or taped off bit during the day with soaked hay and wearing muzzle at night to give the rubbed bits a rest.
 
OP if you think her arthritis could cope with being stabled during the day I would highly recommend it. It makes a huge difference to their calorie consumption and most horses really like being out of the heat and flies.
 
I agree it is incredibly difficult with some horses. A friend's former novice eventer is one. Even when incredibly fit, keeping his weight down was difficult. He's now retired and is, quite frankly, huge. He's the fattest horse I've ever seen. His owner has literally tried everything and nothing works. He spent all winter out, unrugged with a bib clip. He was never cold and sometimes even sweating. He'd come in overnight (yard rules) to a tiny trickle net of soaked, poor quality hay and a handful of unmollassed chaff to have his supplements. He put on weight.

Now that they're allowed out 24/7 she really doesn't want to bring him in as he gets stiff (and winter proved it doesn't make a difference anyway) He's muzzled 20 hours a day,again just has the chaff to have his supplements. She walks him in hand for 30 minutes a day - really walking out, she's almost jogging. She's lost a stone in 6 weeks, he's lost nothing. He can't do any more due to arthritis. He's had every blood test under the sun and everything is apparently normal. She's lucky that he hasn't had laminitis yet but, apart from the extra lami risk, the extra weight isn't helping his joints. There really is nothing else she can do. We don't have a starvation paddock, can't strip graze as they're in a herd environment and the others need the good grass. He gets very panicky on his own so can't separate him from the others. He deals very well with the muzzle and seems happy enough in it.

She's very aware of the risks and has done all she can to mitgate them, but is also aware it's nowhere near enough (nothing except hard work is, it seems). She is resigned to the fact that he may get laminits or, more likely, the arthritis will worsen due to the pressure on his joints and in both these scenarios is ready to pts. This doesn't mean she doesn't care if he gets it, but is realistic that he's a 23 year old retired horse and some problem will get him sooner or later. At his age, and with the problems he has, he may as well enjoy life a bit and if that leads to a slightly earlier death, so be it. I think this is what you were trying to say Firefly?
 
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