Very new and very confused owner, help needed, please!

[Silvaticus]

Hello OP, I’ve read all the posts on this thread. I can see that you are hurt by some of the replies, especially those suggesting PTS. You have tried, nd continue to try, to do a good thing by rescuing this foal. Reality can be harsh. I think that you expected some easier solutions or help to change the situation and think that people are being unkind to you. I can assure you, as a horse owner of many years, that this is not the case. Most, if not all of the people who have replied, have been through heartbreak caring for their horses on more than one occasion, and have had to make decisions that were in the best interest of their much loved horses, but that they did not want to make, to alleviate suffering. Suffering is both mental and physical. Clearly you love this foal, but you must ask yourself why so many horse lovers and owners on here are saying things that you don’t want to hear. No one is being unkind.

I`ll answer with my thoughts on PTS here because it was suggested many times in mutiple replies and it would get confusing if I try to reply individually.
First of all, it took a while for me to realize what it means, I wasn`t familiar with the euphemism. It`s death but in more words. And I know death is natural and it just happens but can the life of this poor young foal be considered natural, to begin with? I agree, taking a young horse from a pasture, rip him away from his mother and companions and keep him in bad conditions could be a fate worse than death. But he was already in a bad situation with a bleak future. As experienced as some of you are, do you really think you know what a horse would want? I have read that they live in the moment, aren`t a few happy pieces of life worth going on? I can`t take such a radical decision for any being.

 

[FieldOrnaments]

I cannot see how the colt has any happy moments currently, with insufficient space and alone at a time when play and same species interaction are so crucial for a horse.
Company is a safety thing for them, he is likely on edge all the time and will never be able to relax enough for REM sleep. If you wish to keep him your priority really does need to be getting him gelded and finding somewhere he can live with other horses.

 

[Silvaticus]

Hi,

I understand that you are feeling a bit defensive about some of the advice given in this thread. You are trying to save this colt and do what's best by him and your intentions should be commended. However, intentions are not always enough and the posters on this thread are worried for your safety and your colts well being.

I don't have some of the posters experience with young colts but I have traveled a lot and worked in animal behaviour, so I will try to explain in a different way what others have already said.

I know that in Romania, and a lot of other countries, horses are kept solely for work and often alone. However these are adult horses. I believe in most cases youngsters would stay with their mother, even if she was returning to work or at least interact with her part of the day. Keeping a young colt alone is somewhat akin to leaving a 5 year old human to fend for himself with absolutely no human contact. That child would not only grow up to not knowing how to say "please" or "thank you", he would grow up not knowing how to speak at all or how to read facial expressions. The child would not know when other humans were happy or angry, this would be very confusing to the child and dangerous if he did the wrong thing at the wrong time to the wrong person. Putting your colt in with sheep or goats, would be akin to leaving the 5 year old child with a pack of wolves. The child might grow up more socially adjusted, as in capable of taking into account wolves behaviour, but would not behave in any way, shape or form in the manner you would expect from a human, even one that cannot speak. As you can see, this is entirely different to an adult living as a hermit, they might be a bit rusty, but they will still know how to talk and interact with other people. Your colt needs behavioural input from other horses in his formative years. As an adult, it would be far from ideal for him to be alone, but not as damaging to him and you.

Also from a safety point of view, I have come across various individual animals raised by humans without their own species, these include buffalo, horses and warthogs. Especially in males, when these animals reach maturity, they start showing more aggressive behaviour that they have not been taught to moderate and have no species appropriate outlet for (play fighting with other individuals of their species, real fighting with their species and mating with females of their species). These animals became dangerous for the people who raised them. The warthog was shot my the man who raised him after the warthog nearly killed his colleague (an emergency trip to hospital was required). So please stay safe. Get your colt castrated as soon as possible, wear a hard hat around him, and make sure someone knows where you are.

You need to offer an outlet to your colts energy, or he will not be able to learn. Ideally, he would go in with or least next to the Belgians or some other horses. If that's not possible, could the Belgians come in for a bit while he goes out in their field? He needs to let of steam in a larger space. If you try walking him out in hand before this, he will "explode" for the need to run and not be able to listen to you.

You can start R+ training to touch a target from outside his enclosure, which will allow you to stay safe and get his brain working a bit. You should be able to find youtube videos on how to do this. If you are not experience with R+ training yourself (e.g. with dogs or another species) please make sure you are fully aware of all the theory before starting. Doing R+ wrong or with bad timing on an already frustrated young colt could have disastrous results.

Overall and in order of importance in my opinion (and knowing these will not all be easy for you but you will need to get them all implemented in some form, if only partial if you are to offer this colt the life he deserves and is worth living) you need to:

• Get him castrated
• Get him horse company, at the very least part time or over a fence
• Get him space to move around and let off his steam freely
• THEN you can work on building his trust through R+ exercises and then building up to training him to walk in hand

I will add that I agree with other posters that if you can't get him all these things soon, it would be in his best interest to be put down before he hurts you, himself or some else. I would not consider this a failure and would thank you on his behalf for it if it became necessary.

I wish you and your colt luck whatever you decide. Try to base your decisions on your colts biology and behaviour, even when these might be very different to your feelings, and above all stay safe.

Thanks, this was the reply that made me decide to stay in these forums for a while!
As it happens, I have a 5 years old so I understand what you are talking about.
I am trying to stay safe. I think my iinitial post painted a too harsh image of the colt. It is not like he is running after me with teeth barred and kicking around. The biting is mostly nibbling gone too far and just in some rare cases an attempt to bite my pants or shoes. Rearing happend 3-4 times and the kicking is usually a 15 minutes show after he gets out from the stable. He is also too impatient when being led into or out of the stable, probably becuse of my lack of experience and too soft handling. Most of the time I`m staying behind the fence of his enclosure and he comes there for treats or just to hang around. I have to be near him to get him in and out and to clean the stable and usually he is calm but pushes his hind towards me and does some kicking with the front legs when he eats grains and oats. Never with the hay so I just wait until he finishes so I can clean around him.
I think I`ll be able to have him with the Belgians in a couple of weeks, as I said that pasture needs work. And I hope they`ll accept him.
My decision is to try everything I can to keep him alive and I appreciate your words but it would still be a painful failure if I can`t.
This was the kind of answers and possible solutions I was looking for, thanks Titchy Pony!

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

As it happens, I have a 5 years old so I understand what you are talking about.

Please, please be very careful with your child around this colt.

 

[Silvaticus]

your colt is young and needs to play. Think of children in the playground, they play and fight with other children as they learn to deal with people. They have fun doing that.
Your colt is no different. Young horses like to play and fight with other young horses. Older horses help as well as they put boundaries for behaviour in place.
If your colt has no other horse to play with he is still going to want to play. He will play with you as that is all he has. Playing for a young horse means biting and running away, rearing and pawing with his front legs, kicking, running around trying to catch his playmate.
Horses are well designed for this. They can run fast enough to get out of the way, they can kick back, fight back and generally play. Humans are not and in a very short time you will end up in hospital seriously hurt. That is why he needs another horse.

I'm not trying to be unkind to you just explaining why you need company for him. If you get a sheep for example he will very likely drive it into a corner and kick it badly. It is horse company he needs.

I know that, perhaps I seem to be so but I`m not that unaware of everything horse related. It is just not possible at the moment but I`m working on it.

 

[JenJ]

I`ll answer with my thoughts on PTS here because it was suggested many times in mutiple replies and it would get confusing if I try to reply individually.
First of all, it took a while for me to realize what it means, I wasn`t familiar with the euphemism. It`s death but in more words. And I know death is natural and it just happens but can the life of this poor young foal be considered natural, to begin with? I agree, taking a young horse from a pasture, rip him away from his mother and companions and keep him in bad conditions could be a fate worse than death. But he was already in a bad situation with a bleak future. As experienced as some of you are, do you really think you know what a horse would want? I have read that they live in the moment, aren`t a few happy pieces of life worth going on? I can`t take such a radical decision for any being.

You are correct here, but unfortunately not in the way you might think. Your colt is currently not happy - he is alone, without sufficient space and doesn't know how to interact with other beings. This is what he is showing you with his recent behaviour, as it is his only way to communicate with you.

You may have plans to change things in a few months, or to get a companion when he's a bit older, or to move him when you find something more suitable, but he doesn't know any of this, he doesn't know of any future - all he knows is living in the moment now, which is lonely and shut in.

No one here can tell you what to do; it is completely your choice. You did however ask for advice, which is what people are giving, with their best will and intentions. It is only advice though, not orders, you can do what you want.

You've tried to help the colt, and that's really lovely, but I think maybe it won't work out to be as easy as you might have thought, I'm sorry.

But perhaps in the future, you can put your desire to help into action in other ways - how about contacting and helping equine charities in Romania for example? Or campaigning for equines to be kept in better conditions? There's all sorts you can do to help abused horses without taking them on yourself.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

But perhaps in the future, you can put your desire to help into action in other ways - how about contacting and helping equine charities in Romania for example?

Actually that could be a very good solution for the colt. If there are any equine rescues perhaps they might help OP out and take the colt from them.

 

[Silvaticus]

As an aside, I don't know if you have moved to Romania from an English-speaking country, but if not, and Romanian is your first language, I wanted to congratulate you on your excellent use of the English language, both formal and colloquial. Almost like a native English speaker!

Thanks, JenJ and the others who commented on my English. Nope, I always lived here and English is actually the third or fourth language I started to learn, after Romanian and Hungarian, father and mother tongue respectively.

 

[JenJ]

Thanks, JenJ and the others who commented on my English. Nope, I always lived here and English is actually the third or fourth language I started to learn, after Romanian and Hungarian, father and mother tongue respectively.

Wow, you have great language skills then - maybe a potential foreign ambassador for a Romanian equine charity?

 

[Silvaticus]

I'm sorry you are in this situation, and I am sure it seems crazy to be held to UK standards when they don't exist where you are.

Get him gelded now, and while that's being sorted find him turnout with other horses. That should be doable, lots do keep their young horses turned out until its time to work.

Spend the next 2yrs learning off others about horses then when your ready and your land is fenced, bring him back and find another companion.

No one here can tell you how to fix the handling problems,most people here couldn't do it and the ones that could wouldn't bother because they know young horses need to be with others to learn to be nice.

Yeah, I`m finding those standards and expectations pretty crazy. I`m not saying it wouldn`t be nice but we are far far away from those ideal conditions.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I`ll answer with my thoughts on PTS here because it was suggested many times in mutiple replies and it would get confusing if I try to reply individually.
First of all, it took a while for me to realize what it means, I wasn`t familiar with the euphemism. It`s death but in more words. And I know death is natural and it just happens but can the life of this poor young foal be considered natural, to begin with? I agree, taking a young horse from a pasture, rip him away from his mother and companions and keep him in bad conditions could be a fate worse than death. But he was already in a bad situation with a bleak future. As experienced as some of you are, do you really think you know what a horse would want? I have read that they live in the moment, aren`t a few happy pieces of life worth going on? I can`t take such a radical decision for any being.

Many of us *do* know what a horse would want, because we have kept them for years and years and there is a lot of research about wild and domesticated horses. It might help you to look up 'The 5 Freedoms' that the RSPCA(?) advice that all equines should have access to.

 

[Silvaticus]

There is no where on this thread that says he will spend his life on his own. I assume the op is just trying to sort things out as they are for now and who knows what the future holds. Plus we all need to start somewhere, both equines and humans.

Well, yes, that sums it up pretty well. All the less than ideal conditions talk could be hlepful in the future but I`m at the start and need to do something.

 

[FieldOrnaments]

Silvaticus, I do not know which part of Romania you are in obviously but just searching 'livery yard Romania' has brought up nine results for either stud farms or horse trekking centres, and 'horse rescue Romania' got me at least four potential options. I would implore you to reach out to any 'horsey' avenues you can find, explaining your situation and asking if they would be able to come to an arrangement with you regarding boarding your colt. The studs especially may be worth contacting as having playmates of a similar age is enormously beneficial for youngsters, and even if they can't help you directly they may know people or organisations who can.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

All the less than ideal conditions talk could be hlepful in the future but I`m at the start and need to do something.

With all due respect, this is not some minor horse care detail that can be discussed at a later date. The far from ideal conditions is the problem right here and now. If they cannot be rectified very, very quickly there is unlikely to be a future with a good outcome for the colt or yourself. But you don't seem to want to hear anything other than solutions that you feel will suit your agenda, pointless continuing trying to help so I am off the thread now. Good luck.

 

[Parrotperson]

Thanks, this was the reply that made me decide to stay in these forums for a while!
As it happens, I have a 5 years old so I understand what you are talking about.
I am trying to stay safe. I think my iinitial post painted a too harsh image of the colt. It is not like he is running after me with teeth barred and kicking around. The biting is mostly nibbling gone too far and just in some rare cases an attempt to bite my pants or shoes. Rearing happend 3-4 times and the kicking is usually a 15 minutes show after he gets out from the stable. He is also too impatient when being led into or out of the stable, probably becuse of my lack of experience and too soft handling. Most of the time I`m staying behind the fence of his enclosure and he comes there for treats or just to hang around. I have to be near him to get him in and out and to clean the stable and usually he is calm but pushes his hind towards me and does some kicking with the front legs when he eats grains and oats. Never with the hay so I just wait until he finishes so I can clean around him.
I think I`ll be able to have him with the Belgians in a couple of weeks, as I said that pasture needs work. And I hope they`ll accept him.
My decision is to try everything I can to keep him alive and I appreciate your words but it would still be a painful failure if I can`t.
This was the kind of answers and possible solutions I was looking for, thanks Titchy Pony!

Ok.

Get him gelded. Now if his testicles are descended. Age in this situation will have v little to do with it.

Rearrange your paddock/stable so he can run in and out as he pleases. This has the advantage of allowing him more freedom and not being shut in to get worked up when he’s lead out.

He really needs more space and a companion but if you can’t provide this and you won’t kill him then at least the above is better.

You’ll need to keep handling him though cos at some point his feet and teeth will need attention and he might enjoy being groomed.

There. Practical advice. In other circumstances I’d urge you to sell but i can see why you won’t in Romania. Look at more YouTube especially on of good trainers like Michael Peace. Good luck. You’ll need it.

 

[Silvaticus]

With all due respect, this is not some minor horse care detail that can be discussed at a later date. The far from ideal conditions is the problem right here and now. If they cannot be rectified very, very quickly there is unlikely to be a future with a good outcome for the colt or yourself. But you don't seem to want to hear anything other than solutions that you feel will suit your agenda, pointless continuing trying to help so I am off the thread now. Good luck.

Also with all due respect, I did say a few times that I am looking to better those conditions, that is why I am here. Having the horse killed now because he doesn`t have all he needs now makes more sense?

 

[ycbm]

Also with all due respect, I did say a few times that I am looking to better those conditions, that is why I am here. Having the horse killed now because he doesn`t have all he needs now makes more sense?

The situation you have him in could result in your death if he kicks you in the head or him killing himself by breaking a leg or getting caught up on the fencing he's breasting as he careers around a 5x15m space trying to behave like a horse.

At that point in time his humane death would definitely seem like the better option.

You've talked about improving his situation by getting him into a space less than 45mx45m and by getting him a goat or a sheep for company.

I think I've missed any other improvements you proposed than that, and it's nowhere near enough, I'm sorry. ETA I have just read that you intend to get him in with Belgian stallion and an in foal mare. One or other of those are not unlikely, either deliberately or accidentally, to do him serious harm.

Are you able to send him somewhere where they have a field of mixed age or young horses of his own age? How do you stand with financing big vet bills?
.

 

[dorsetladette]

@Silvaticus do you have anyone local with young horses you could ask to put him with? Or is there someone with a young horse who might be willing to let you have them with yours?

You could swap livery/housing for knowledge. Again the small area isn't ideal, but with company he'll be more stimulated and then you can handle him more - ie walk him out for extra exercise.

 

[Silvaticus]

Silvaticus, I do not know which part of Romania you are in obviously but just searching 'livery yard Romania' has brought up nine results for either stud farms or horse trekking centres, and 'horse rescue Romania' got me at least four potential options. I would implore you to reach out to any 'horsey' avenues you can find, explaining your situation and asking if they would be able to come to an arrangement with you regarding boarding your colt. The studs especially may be worth contacting as having playmates of a similar age is enormously beneficial for youngsters, and even if they can't help you directly they may know people or organisations who can.

I did look at some of those rescue options last night, I think. Yup, I would gladly give him away to a suitable charity or owner. I think there`s still a shade of doubt over my intentions here, perhaps I did not make that clear, perhaps we just think completely different. I just want him to survive, I don`t expect anything in return and I`m open to anything that is feasible. Give him away, arrange for a companion, whatever. But, until I find that option, I need to manage him somehow and that`s basically all I was asking about.
My location is: https://maps.app.goo.gl/ihvXfvja49tYqWar9

 

[Arzada]

he comes there for treats

I'd stop the treats. He's already mouthy. You don't want him to start mugging you

I have to be near him to get him in and out and to clean the stable and usually he is calm but pushes his hind towards me and does some kicking with the front legs when he eats grains and oats. Never with the hay so I just wait until he finishes so I can clean around him.

Do you have to clean around him? Is it possible to clean the paddock when he is in the stable and to clean the stable when he is in the paddock? Is there a way to make this possible?

 

[ycbm]

I did look at some of those rescue options last night, I think. Yup, I would gladly give him away to a suitable charity or owner. I think there`s still a shade of doubt over my intentions here, perhaps I did not make that clear, perhaps we just think completely different. I just want him to survive, I don`t expect anything in return and I`m open to anything that is feasible. Give him away, arrange for a companion, whatever. But, until I find that option, I need to manage him somehow and that`s basically all I was asking about.
My location is: https://maps.app.goo.gl/ihvXfvja49tYqWar9

The immediate thing you need to do is to stop locking him in the stable overnight. That will prevent the 15 minute explosions when he's let out, and the danger to you of leading him in and out.
.

 

[Silvaticus]

I'd stop the treats. He's already mouthy. You don't want him to start mugging you

Do you have to clean around him? Is it possible to clean the paddock when he is in the stable and to clean the stable when he is in the paddock? Is there a way to make this possible?

That would be possible but I thought some interaction and desentisizing wouldn`t be bad. He has never shown any bad behavior while I`m cleaning so I just went on and enjoyed shoveling.

 

[Gloi]

I just wondered if you were in an area with wolves?

 

[Silvaticus]

Don't be run off by some comments. People tend to want perfect conditions for other horses but usually compromise (sometimes a lot) on how they keep their own.

You said your horse is stabled at night to keep him safe. Maybe this is a dumb question but what are possible"nightly dangers" for him? Are there wolves or other predators that might attack a single horse? Or are you afraid someone might steal him? If not, I'd turn him out day and night. Horses are much happier when they can choose themselves if they want to be in or out. So, he should have always access to the stable but the door kept open. The more he can freely roam the property, small as it may be, the less pent up enery he will have.

2000 sqm is not enough to feed a horse. Depending on the climate/weather, you need at least double that area, and if you have hot, dry summers, easily an hectare per horse - or more. That means you'll have to feed him hay all year round unless you can make arrangements for the summer with other horse owners in your or the next village.

I think your best option if you must keep him at home would be a "paddock paradise" (google that, if you haven't heard it yet). Thus you can give your horse enough space and motivation to walk and run around but also preserve a little bit of the small pasture for the summer. Free movement and grazing is important for a horse's mental and physical health and you should make sure he has that, if only for an hour each day.

I've tried to focus on the things you can do under the given circumstances (and soon) and not tell you all the things that would be ideal but impossible (at the moment). There's always room for improvement but Rome wasn't built in a day either.

This little horse is lucky to have found someone who cares and I'm sure with time you can learn everything you need to know to handle and keep him well.

I`d also want perfect conditions, of course. And I had the urge to just go away from the ideal or die! suggestions.

Nightly dangers, as I see them: there are wolves around the village but I have never heard of any attack except on remote sheepfolds. Not to be excluded though. Bears are more likely and did wander through my garden a few times. Then there`s dogs, shepherds use all sort of crazy breeds these days and they did kill one of my neighbours sheep two month ago. Stealing? Nah, I don`t think any fool would complicate his life with an unruly colt.
It wouldn`t be a big deal feeding him hay if necessary, it is not that expensive or hard to procure.

I was talking with my brother about the new pasture where I could have my horse with his and somehow I came up with the idea of a central inside fence. Perhaps I`m not so oblivious to a horses`s needs...

Thanks!

 

[GrassChop]

How long is he in the stable for and does he get any food or hay while he's in?

 

[ycbm]

It wouldn`t be a big deal feeding him hay if necessary, it is not that expensive or hard to procure.

Do you mean he is locked in a stable overnight with no hay?
.

 

[Capalldonn]

Nightly dangers, as I see them: there are wolves around the village but I have never heard of any attack expect on remote sheepfolds. Not to be excluded though. Bears are more likely and did wander through my garden a few times. Then there`s dogs, shepherds use all sort of crazy breeds these days and they did kill one of my neighbours sheep two month ago.

Would you be able and allowed to build a game fence around the pasture or parts of it?

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I`d also want perfect conditions, of course. And I had the urge to just go away from the ideal or die! suggestions.

Nightly dangers, as I see them: there are wolves around the village but I have never heard of any attack except on remote sheepfolds. Not to be excluded though. Bears are more likely and did wander through my garden a few times. Then there`s dogs, shepherds use all sort of crazy breeds these days and they did kill one of my neighbours sheep two month ago. Stealing? Nah, I don`t think any fool would complicate his life with an unruly colt.
It wouldn`t be a big deal feeding him hay if necessary, it is not that expensive or hard to procure.

I was talking with my brother about the new pasture where I could have my horse with his and somehow I came up with the idea of a central inside fence. Perhaps I`m not so oblivious to a horses`s needs...

Thanks!

He needs hay, rather than oats, or any other hard feed, no wonder he is full of energy that he doesn't know how to contain.

 

[Capalldonn]

Do you mean he is locked in a stable overnight with no hay?
.

I don't think so.

. I have to be near him to get him in and out and to clean the stable and usually he is calm but pushes his hind towards me and does some kicking with the front legs when he eats grains and oats. Never with the hay so I just wait until he finishes so I can clean around him.

 

[ycbm]

I don't think so.

OK, so he's on a space 10th the size of an arena with no hay 24/7?
.