very strong new horse

[taggartgolf]

Hi
This is my first post on this forum and I am seeking advice from my fellow horsemen/women. Ihave recentley bought a fab 17.1hh clyde x tb mare .She is superb in every way....However I contacted her previous/previous owner to establish a little unknown history.She endorsed that this horse was superb in every way,however, she sold her because she completely 'tanked off' 3 x with her causing her to lose her her nerve and subsequently sell her... ooh er, I thought.Blimey! Thus far I have not had occasion to experience this lovely attribute as we have hacked along roads and walked accross fields.I have cantered her along a bridleway behind a lead horse and she was was fine,however I get the 'feeling' she could be strong if the fancy took her. If I am honest I am scared ****less that she could tank off if she wanted to,and believe me she is a mighty big horse with the engine at the front.Obviously, intensive schooling could help this but before we end up 'run away with' on a hack across fields I am seeking advice on the best bit to control this undesired vice.She iscurrently in a jointed dutch gag but I read that a waterford pelham or waterford gag is a saviour on a headstrong,willful horse.I have some done some research and this bit appears favourable or a good jointed,steel pelham.Do any of you experienced big horse riders have any advice as I am determined to nip this in th before this happens.I am a very strong 16stone(sadly!) lady with popeyes biceps but would love to hear from anyone who has had/ has a similar challenge as to how they have are /conquering it. I can't wait for your advice.Many Thanks.

 

[Patches]

My horse can get strong on farm rides or open fields. If I am going for a good blast I always put my waterford pessoa (gag) in. She sometimes still feels strong, but never takes hold of this bit like she does a snaffle. I always have brakes, just maybe not as sharp sometimes. Certainly never get left feeling out of control on her in the waterford as I have in my copper roller snaffle.

Good luck. Any horse, regardless of their size, is a scary prospect to be sat on when you are an unwilling passenger and not the driver!

Welcome to the forum, by the way.

 

[taggartgolf]

Thank you for expediant reply!!I thing a waterford it is!!
kind regards

 

[Mel85]

I would avoid a bit with a curb as this will just make her put her head down and lean which makes them quite difficult to stop if they really mean it!

I had an eventer who got very strong xc and I tried a myler combination bit with him and it was fantastic. I thought I would struggle with the steering with it, but I had no problems. Definitely worth considering!

Good luck!

 

[mostfunintown]

Just a note of caution when going for the bit chang, Through experience I have learned that if the horse is really strong willed and just wants to do as it pleases you may find that if your new brakes are great the horse will try a different undesired behaviour so it can still do its own thing and assert itself as leader of your little heard. For example if your new bit is great at stopping forward motion upwards may be the next move. sorry don't want to scare you but if you are prepared for this it may just save on involutary dismounts. As you said your horse is big and that is a long way up. Good luck with her and stay confident and I am sure you will gain a lovely relationship with her.

 

[Weezy]

[ QUOTE ]
assert itself as leader of your little heard.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do whaaaaaaaaaaaat!!!!!!!!

[ QUOTE ]
For example if your new bit is great at stopping forward motion upwards may be the next move.

[/ QUOTE ]

This I agree with - leapy canter will ensue!

 

[LEC]

I sometimes think horses know if you have one over on them size wise. Jimmy my horse (16.3hh ridden in a snaffle) is not a puller and has never been strong but everyone in my family is 5'7 and over and pretty strong builds. I let my friend ride him who is 4'9 and he really took the piss and she had no brakes. I then swopped her onto another horse who was 16.2 and again a laid back chap as she was having so much difficulty and he took the piss. I think as long as you do not get worried and show them you are in control you will be fine.

 

[Weezy]

OMG I cant even get into my head anyone finding Jimmy strong - but hey, he has a LOT of horse behind him so even being cheeky with a short arse on his back is prob intimidating! I love Jimmy, sorry I know I keep saying it but that horse is a seriously gorgeous horse!

 

[henryhorn]

I found the best thing on a 16.3hh heavyweight who had virtually no brakes when I bought him was a Myler with a high port in the middle. he became instantly controllable in that, much lighter than the dutch gag but still effective.
often horse that p*** off are the rider's fault, if you keep the horse between hand and leg they often don't get away with you, and once they learn who means stop they don't even attempt to run off.
Ignore what the previous owner said, just keep teaching him to listen to you on slow hacks, you may find he is as good as gold with you.

 

[hunteress]

go back to schooling transitions makes all the difference I hunt in mine in a tomb thumb american gag its ace, good luck you got a lot of horse there ,also have back and teeth checked if not already done !!

 

[vicijp]

Never worry about what anyone else says about a horse, especially when you have no idea what their riding is like.
If you havent had a problem with the horse trust him and have confidence in yourself. Some riders do actually teach horses to bolt (not on purpose).
If I listened to what everyone else has said about horses I have had, I would have had them shot on sight. 9 times out of 10 there hasnt been anything wrong with them.

 

[dieseldog]

Be careful with buying a Myler as a lot of them aren't actually that strong, go for one for a port and long shanks if you decided to have a myler as someone said above. the snaffle looking ones are milder than a 3 ring gag and 10 times more expensive.

I tried a waterford on a strong horse and it didn't make any difference so if you can try before you buy.

Best advice so far has been vicijp's - if you hadn't phoned the lady you wouldn't have a problem and you haven't a clue what she rides like or what situations she put the horse in.

Hope she keeps on behaving

 

[FMM]

My advice is to recognise the signs of taking off before it happens. If you can stop them before they really start, then they give up after a while. Unfortunately, you probably need to be taken off with once to recognise the signs, so probably not much help to you!

 

[Sal_E]

Agree with FMM - if the horse is prone to tanking off then the most effective solution is not to let him in the first place. OK, sounds obvious but not as daft as it sounds. Turn cantering into schooling (forget galloping altogether for now). Chose your place wisely (good footing, plenty of room etc), trot, into steady canter, little bit more, bit more etc BUT regularly check the horse - the moment you find him not responding sensitively, pull him up (sharpely if necessary). He needs to be as responsive in a fast canter as he is in the school - he must learn that he's not flat out galloping without a care in the world, but schooling across a field. DON'T let him dictate the pace. Of course, also don't run him to the end, but come down the gears as steadily as you went up them so it's all on your terms & perfectly calm & civilised.

I think this is a case of a bolshy horse p1ssing off a bit - not a bolter which is a whole different ball game. Keep it steady & civilsed on your terms & never just 'GO'. I guess he'll be fine.

Don't forget to wear a body protector, it will give you a bit more confidence.

 

[Rambo]

To be honest, if you haven't experienced this trait yourself, and the horse is showing no signs of being strong with you, I wouldn't actually change anything for now

You are already riding the horse in a reasonably strong bit, you have stated that you are both strong physically, and as a rider, so have some faith in your own abilities ! You don't know what sort of level of rider this previous owner was, and in my experience a lot of horses can and will take advantage if they detect a weakness in the armour of the person on top. Don't fix it if it ain't broke

 

[Parkranger]

Exactly what I was going to say - tanking is a different thing for different people! I call bolting a horse getting hold of the bit and not stopping, no matter what and putting you in dangerous circumstances - she may have just got excited on occasion and been a bit slow in slowing down....

As a safety precaution learn how to ride with bridged reins so that if it does happen then you can have more chance holding her back.

TBH though if you show fear she may pick up on that so you need to try and be confident and not transmit what you think she may do!

 

[miamibear]

I strongly reccomend trying the waterford it worked in my strong boy!

 

[PaddyMonty]

[ QUOTE ]
Never worry about what anyone else says about a horse, especially when you have no idea what their riding is like.
If you havent had a problem with the horse trust him and have confidence in yourself. Some riders do actually teach horses to bolt (not on purpose).
If I listened to what everyone else has said about horses I have had, I would have had them shot on sight. 9 times out of 10 there hasnt been anything wrong with them.

[/ QUOTE ]

So So TRUE!
And how do they teach them to tank off.
By hacking on a loose rein in walk, light contact in trot and then taking a strong contact before cantering. They also canter in the same places every time.
Net result is everytime the rider takes up a strong contact the horse assumes its time for a good blast and simply obliges.
The problem then comes when they take up a strong contact because the rider thinks there is a worrying situation up ahead. Horse reacts as trained and rider claims it bolted.
If you aren't having a problem please dont go looking for one.
It might just be a self fulfilling prophecy

 

[no_no_nanette]

We have a Clydesdale X TB X (pony????) and he is a horse in a thousand million! Would SO recommend this cross, as we know of two others who are also utterly wonderful. Have had our chap since he was 4 (8 years ago), and he can be very strong when excited. My daughter (his rider) has found that what works really well for him when competing is NOT a stronger bit but a grakle noseband. Stronger bits got him frustrated and he started headshaking. He's now ridden in a sweet iron/copper roller loose ring snaffle, which we found suited him best after much experimentation. He's now always controllable, although he will "boing" on the spot when he gets excited! Agree with all previous posts on building trust and confidence, and avoiding situations which might tempt your mare to tank off. Also keep up the schooling, lots of transitions and half-halts, which we found helped. And if she is anything like Rufus she will jump like a stag! We have great fun in affiliated comps going up against very beautiful TBs and WBs, who look at this peculiar coloured object who then sweeps the floor with them! You might like to know that there is a stud in the US who are breeding from a Clydesdale/TB line, aiming at the 2012 Olympics! May be a bit optimistic, but hey ....

 

[Kelly1982]

[ QUOTE ]
So So TRUE!
And how do they teach them to tank off.
By hacking on a loose rein in walk, light contact in trot and then taking a strong contact before cantering. They also canter in the same places every time.
Net result is everytime the rider takes up a strong contact the horse assumes its time for a good blast and simply obliges.
The problem then comes when they take up a strong contact because the rider thinks there is a worrying situation up ahead. Horse reacts as trained and rider claims it bolted.
If you aren't having a problem please dont go looking for one.
It might just be a self fulfilling prophecy


[/ QUOTE ]

Thats exactly what i was going to say but you beat me to it and said it better

 

[katiejaye]

Hello,

my boy is not big (15.3) but incredibly strong and I am not a particularly big build! I had a lot of issues with him in the past when going for hacks, he is great to hack and doesn't spook or bolt for no reason but when I wanted to go for a canter it always promptly turned into a crazy gallop with no brakes and a lot of bucking! I tried stronger bits (dutch gag, combination myler etc) but as someone above has said this just caused other problems e.g. he would get very upset with being restricted and we had a couple of rears and a lot of head shaking.

I now hack him in a loose ring waterford which he is pretty happy with. However, the only way I resolved the issue was plenty of schooling. I found a field with plenty of space and practiced having canters, if he did take off I had plenty of space to circle or wear him out. I schooled out in the field going from trot to canter and back again until he was listening to me. If did take off then I pushed him and made him go and go until he wanted to stop and then made him continue going round and round the field until he didn't want to go any more! He is now 95% better and we have lovely controlled canters and trots. I have reserved one part of the hack for having a blast so now he knows this is the only place he is allowed to gallop. The odd time that he does get a little strong I put in a circle and normally comes back again.