very upset-advice needed

siennamiller

siennamiller

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Hi all

my JRT X just attacked a puppy, when I told him off he snarled at me and was bearing his teeth at me, I gave him another thump and he got worse, I thought he might go for me . In the end I slammed the car door and left him in there. I have made him go in his bed and I am ignoring him. I am really really upset that he was like this to me, I am pregnant and am really worried about this beahvaiour, I am in floods of tears. Is there anything I should do/have done? I had his balls off about 5 weeks ago, is it possible he could have hormones racing round of something?
Thanks
 
He is dominant and he knows it. Shutting him in the car or sending him to bed may actually reinforce this because in his eyes he has his own space and if you try and enter it he may well go for you as well. Sorry to say it but as you are now bringing a new life into the world, without some very serious, fast pro help I would be rehoming the dog or PTS.

I dont want to sound harsh but IME once they have got like this it takes an awful lot to sort them out. Any animal that feels justified in attacking the young of its own species is a problem IMO.

Im so sorry I cant be positive but Im a realist.

We have had working dogs in the past, kenneled dogs who were never pets, one went for my Mum once when she told him to move, he didnt break the skin thank goodness but my step father had him PTS the same afternoon, he knew he couldnt trust him again especially as he had to work out in public.

The other thing that concerns me is this. You now dont trust the dog so your attitude and the way you relate to him will change. It will change evn more once your baby is born and you may find yourself unwittingly becoming over protective of your child in the presence of the dog. This will come across to the dog and he may find this either intimidating or a challenge to his dominancy. The baheviour could become a lot worse.
 
I know that when a dogs gets his bits done, there is a surge of testosterone for a while. We found this out when we had our Alsation done. He may calm down after a while, but like Spaniel says, the trust issue might be a problem.
 
How old is your JTR? What are the circumstances that the incident happend? Were you at home, out walking, was the puppy antogonising (sp?) your dog? Where did you reprimand your dog, on the rump while he was facing you? There may be a perfectly good explanation for this sudden change in behaviour.

I once gave my JRT fresh bones, when it came to take them away they took them under the sofa and growled when I tried to retrieve them. I got my other half to fish them out and they got a telling off and didn't do it again. When I was little I went up behind our old JRT and stroked him, this made him jump and he turned round and bit me. He wasn't reprimanded as it was an accident and never did it again.
 
With a baby on the way, I am sorry to say with this dog I would re-home him. You will have enough on your hands without worrying about him and watching his every move. This type of dog would be a threat to a baby.

My mum had to get rid her corgi when she was expecting me, it broke her heart, but she knew deep down that she could not be trusted.

I am so sorry to say this, but humans come first and this dog clearly needs a lot of work on his behaviour, something you just wont be able to do when your baby arrives.

I may get shouted down for this, but hopefully others will see my logic.
 
could u answer a few questions in regard to the situation,his normal behaviour/age/normal routine at home i.e where he sleeps, how he is treat i.e a little pampered or not.
Why he snacked the puppy and where, was it your puppy?
 
I dont think the answer is to re-home him.....you are just passing the problem on, and passing a dog on will not neccesarily improve his behaviour.
I dont agree with re-homing a dog for the sake of a baby coming along.......and if the dog has behavioural problems then maybe seeking professional help would be a good option esp in the cases of in-experienced owners who feel they could benefit from outside help for themselves or their pet.
Others will no doubt take the carefree attitude of PTS or re-homing but dont forget that is why we have so many rescue dogs in this country.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Hi all

my JRT X just attacked a puppy, when I told him off he snarled at me and was bearing his teeth at me, I gave him another thump and he got worse, I thought he might go for me . In the end I slammed the car door and left him in there. I have made him go in his bed and I am ignoring him. I am really really upset that he was like this to me, I am pregnant and am really worried about this beahvaiour, I am in floods of tears. Is there anything I should do/have done? I had his balls off about 5 weeks ago, is it possible he could have hormones racing round of something?
Thanks

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In the majority of cases aggression directed towards humans is based on fear. Its hard to say without seeing your terrier in person, but the chances are he was scared of the puppy (not all dogs can cope with puppies) and when you reprimanded him he saw that as a further threat. Has he ever acted in this way before?

The problem with dogs and aggression is that they can easily learn to use these behaviours because they are reinforced by us moving away and relieving the perceived threat.

The best thing i would recommend you do in your situation is seek advice from a qualified behaviourist (your vet will be able to refer you). They will be able to assess your dog and advise you on the best course of action. There is a good chance that with a bit of work you won't need to resort to re-homing him.

Please be aware that 'dominance theory' in dogs is based on many misconceptions and has actually been disproved.
 
Hi all
He is 5 years old, has never done this to me b4. We had just got to the stables which he considers as his territory and the puppy was in one of the stables.
He sleeps downstairs but does sometimes come up and sleep on the bed. I make him do what he is told, but hubby spoils him rotten, doesn't matter what I say he treats him like a person.
He was facing me when I told him off, I initially whacked him on the nose but I had my coat in my hand and swung it towards him(wasn't thinking)
I have to be honest with the whole PTS/Rehoming thing that my hubby is more likely to rehome me and the baby than the dog. We are very attached to him, I know some people will think this is awful but I don't think I could bear to rehome him

JJ4y, what do you mean about the dominance theory? He tends to have a bit of a snarl first if he is unsure of a dog but will usually avoid them if he is worried about them. He was definitely scared of me which I think is why he reacted the way he did.
I normally would not have shut the car door and effectively given in but I am trying not to get stressed out because of pregnancy and high BP.
Thanks everyone
xx
 
[ QUOTE ]
I dont think the answer is to re-home him.....you are just passing the problem on, and passing a dog on will not neccesarily improve his behaviour.
I dont agree with re-homing a dog for the sake of a baby coming along.......and if the dog has behavioural problems then maybe seeking professional help would be a good option esp in the cases of in-experienced owners who feel they could benefit from outside help for themselves or their pet.
Others will no doubt take the carefree attitude of PTS or re-homing but dont forget that is why we have so many rescue dogs in this country.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that is an incredibly shortsighted and dangerous reply. Of course the dog should be rehomed if it is going to pose the slightest threat to a baby - in a home where there are no children. As for anyone taking a carefree attitude to having a dog pts - that may be your attitude, but it is not that of the majority of dog owners.
 
It is normal behaviour for an animal to fight or attack another animal......esp if they feel threat/some dogs are not used to boisterous irritating puppies and will snack or show their teeth as a warning to the young.
However I can see how you are worried that he is showing you agression, because you are the pack leader.....or atleast u should be......as the above post mentioned dogs will attack ot show agression through fear and its sounds to me that this is why he reacted to u in this manor......I would also take a guess that he is rarely punished or smacked.

Also by introducing the above changes now he is less likely to assosiate them with the new arrival
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I am not saying ignore him and stop loving him.....just decrease the attention and pampering it will help towards the behaviour he displayed towards you and help him with the arrival of the new baby
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You describe him as being pampered/spoilt by your other half and this will be a problem when introducing a baby.
You have been treating him like your baby and now you are going to be introducing a real baby......so now is the time to demote his pack status and start treating him as a DOG.
I would advise you to get him a crate and get him used to sleeping in the kitchen......not your bedroom...where your baby will sleep.
Do not allow him to go up the stairs, get a baby gate if need be.......Do not allow him to get on the furniture......encourage him to stay on the floor and if he has toys do not allow him to add lib....only play with them when you choose to play, then gather them up and put them in a toy box, buy introducing this routine now before the baby comes along gives him time to adapt to a new routine being treat as a dog and not a baby......otherwise u will have problems when your baby arrives cos he is going to go from having all the attention and comfort he is used to now to a new baby taking his place...............because you are going to have your hands full
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By introducing him to a crate now......It means you can place him in the crate at times when you cant supervise both the dog and the baby and gives him time out from a teartaway toddler when the crawling faze begins
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I see no need for u to rehome him.......If responsible there is no need to part with a much loved pet because a baby is on the way..........there are means and ways for everone to live together given the right balance.

I would not be worried in the slightest at him attacking the puppy......most dogs would bite or snack a puppy like I said if they felt irritated or threatened.

As far as the castration goes.....you did the right thing there and it does take up the 3 months for the procedure to kick in and hormone balance to settle......however at 5 it propably wouldnt make alot od difference.....Its always best to get them done as young as possible from a behaioural point of view
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GOOD LUCK
 
I would rehome him. If he has attacked a dog he could easily attack a baby. He needs to be in an experienced JRT or terrier home, preferably with no other dogs and no children. JRTs can be notoriously wilful, they are not easy dogs to train - I know, I had one for years.
 
We had this with my husband's westie, not with attacking another dog but he bit me several times when i moved in. Having lived alone with hubby for 18 months the spoilt little git thought he was alpha dog, NOT!!!.

Not having a dog myself before, i sought the advice of a police dog handler friend who said a major mistake was allowing the dog on, or upstairs. Especiallly as my hubby used to let sit on the stairs thus making him at a higher level than us.

This is your turf, you have to keep him bottom of the pile as dogs are pack animals , never allow him upstairs on furniture or beds.

Basically you have to start putting him last with all things, ie if you eat, he gets fed after you. NEVER give him stuff from your plate, in fact when you feed him pretend to eat a bit of his first so he thinks he's just getting what you leave.

Make a point of sometimes removing his food before letting him have a bit more, this is only what a dominant dog in the pack will do, he will not think you are cruel!!

When you go through doors make sure you go first and make him wait to be invited through, dont let him barge past you.

Every now and then we would roll him on his back when he was being a stroppy sod and pin him down, not so's it hurt him just to show dominance. Being on the back, belly up is a vulnerable position for him.

The strongest urge of any dog is to be with you, its pack. If he misbehaves the biggest punishement you can give is to isolate him in another room for a while.

This worked with ours (along with a few good smacks) although dominant dogs like this always have an urge to challenge your authority. I dont think you need to re home him or PTS. The dog just needs to be put in his place, trouble is I think he will be easier to train than your husband, good luck!
 
Sooty any dog is a risk of being potentially dangerous towards a baby......That is why we as sensible dog owners must strike a safe balance.......If we all took the attitude of "lets get rid of the dog im having a baby" then what the hell is going to happen to all the dogs cos most people will or have a family at some stage in life...........this is one of the reasons I am sitting with 36 rescue dogs and our rescue situation in britain is appauling.

I am not saying just keep the dog and get on with it I am saying ASK FOR PROFESSIONAL HELP I have also posted with some advice.

Re-homing and PTS is not the only answer......and clearly that is why this lady is asking for advice......because she does not want to part with the dog!!!!!!!!!

I was not stating she had a care free attitude......just the majority of people who get rid of the dog because THEY ARE SIMPLY having a baby problems or not.
 
Sooty I have had dogs for 20 years all breeds.....and I have behavioural qualifications........which is why I am trying to help this lady.

Smaller dogs are notoriously pampered, carried around, allowed on furniture and beds and this can lead to big problems.......people treat them as babies......and this is something I do not agree with......the dogs begins to see its self as a dominant pack member, these problems can be overcome........It is better that they do not get to such an extent but some people are silly with their dogs.....and treat them like babies...............when problems occur it is the responsibility of the owner not rescue society or a last resort of PTS.
 
I have never heard of anyone getting rid of their dog because they are having a baby, but it wouldn't surprise me. However, in this case, I would not take the chance. The dog is clearly not settled, and I would not be prepared to take the risk of it attacking a baby. As an experienced dog person you would know that not all dogs are trainable, and a dog that has attacked a puppy could equally attack a baby. JRTs have quite specific requirements, they are bred to hunt and are determined little s*ds! They are not necessarily the best dog to have around a child anyway, IMHO.
 
Sooty I respect your opinion.........how ever I work in the biggest veterinary establishment in this country and I rescue an rehome at an alarming rate and I am in contact with over 20 recue organisations......so it is inevitable that I will have a vast experience of this problem as a large percentage of dogs we and other rescues get in are due to dogs being rehomed or indeed PTS through people panicking that they need to get rid of the dog because they are having a baby.

YES.............there are genuine reasons for people needing to re-home or PTS but there is also help and advice available........not all dogs can be helped with severe behavioural problems.............but these is a hell of alot that are well within the helping range............most behavioural problems are due to owner error....and therefor they should be willing to seek help for their pet.

I do not agree that a dog that attacks or bites another dog will bite /attack a small child......It is natural for dogs to fight when threatned by another unfamiliar dog, this does not mean they will be typically agressive towards humans.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Hi all
He is 5 years old, has never done this to me b4. We had just got to the stables which he considers as his territory and the puppy was in one of the stables.
He sleeps downstairs but does sometimes come up and sleep on the bed. I make him do what he is told, but hubby spoils him rotten, doesn't matter what I say he treats him like a person.
He was facing me when I told him off, I initially whacked him on the nose but I had my coat in my hand and swung it towards him(wasn't thinking)
I have to be honest with the whole PTS/Rehoming thing that my hubby is more likely to rehome me and the baby than the dog. We are very attached to him, I know some people will think this is awful but I don't think I could bear to rehome him

JJ4y, what do you mean about the dominance theory? He tends to have a bit of a snarl first if he is unsure of a dog but will usually avoid them if he is worried about them. He was definitely scared of me which I think is why he reacted the way he did.
I normally would not have shut the car door and effectively given in but I am trying not to get stressed out because of pregnancy and high BP.
Thanks everyone
xx

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The dominance theory is based on the concept that as dogs evolved from wolves they must behave in the same way. It based on studies of captive wolves and then applied directly to dogs. However, dogs are VERY different to wolves and cannot be assumed to respond in the same way. Many well-respected trainers and behaviourists have completely moved away from using the dominance theory as a base for training or behavioural modification as it has so many flaws. If you'd like further info on the topic a really good book to read is Dogs: A startling new understanding of canine origin, behaviour and evolution by Raymond and Lorna Coppinger. It goes through the evolution of the dog from the wolf and illustrates how different the dog is to the wolf.

IMO as this is the first occasion he's shown any aggression towards you, and as fear seems to be the underlying issue, there is no need to assume that he needs to be rehomed. Seeking advice from a qualified behaviourist on how best to prepare him for your new baby will be a great help. They'll help you to draw up a set of house rules and tell you how best to teach the dog what is expected of him.
 
I agree with you CALA and lets face it here we are talking about a small JRT not a seven stone rottie. It is well within human capabilities to get the better of this little critter
 
Hi all

Thanks for all your advice, sorry I am causing a bit of an argument.
I would like to point out that this is a 5year old dog who has never done this before, it could well be a one off due to his hormones racing around, this is a dog who is normally very well behaved and would come to call away from a bitch in heat (when he was entire).
He has regular interaction with a 6year old girl and is fine with her.
At this point I would like to look at this as a one off and perhaps take him to trainer as some people have suggested.
Thanks
 
i have a JRT who is like the dog you have discribed. she is willfull, strong minded, protetive of her space, towards people and other dogs. They never seem to realise how small they are. When Emily is naughty or aggressive you can not smack her, she snarls to warn you off. She sees it more of a threat. We tend to ignore her, send her out of the pack so speak, she then has time to think about behaviour and in time she is let back into the pack (as in me and OH) remember these dogs are extremely protective of their owners and was he protecting you from this puppy? confrontation isnt always the best deterrent of this behavior but advising for the dog to be PTS is quite a disgusting attitude to have and to suggest this shows an irresonsibilty on your behalf. Dogs are not bad animals, its in experienced owners who can not curb these traits that are more dangerous!
 
LOL
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..........I do believe this is not a major problem and can be overcome...............however I will stick with my rotti
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Smaller dogs on the whole have bigger attitudes than those of there larger relatives.............but this is mainly due to the pampering factor......u cant dress a rotti in a frilly frock, and carry it everywhere with u.............these little dogs are treat like babies and just as spoilt kids turn out to be brats....little dogs turn into critters.........this is in effect why the smaller breeds get away with their behaviour for so long........as opposed to the larger breeds.
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You have not causes any probs......you are a responsible owner who has asked for help......U clearly love your little dog to pieces..............please stick with it and follow the sdvice and talk to your Oh cos he must also put the advice into practice.......I wish u luck and if u need ant advice dont hesitate to ask.
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There is plenty people on here to give u support and advice inc myself
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I partially agree...little dogs can have bigger attitudes than larger dogs....HOWEVER siennamiller has already said they have never had any other problems with him. IMO its more logical to assume he reacted this way today as he felt threatened, not that he's being allowed to get away with too much.

Dogs can live by different rules set out by the owners, as long as the owner teaches the dog those rules and is consistant. For example if someone wants their dog to sleep on their bed then this isn't an issue, as long as they are consistant and teach their dog to get on and off on command. An issue only generally arises when the dog hasn't been taught this and the owners are inconsistant in when the dog is or isn't allowed up.

None of our dogs live by any of the old 'pack rules'. I am quite happy for them to go through doorways first (because they are excited about going out, not because they are trying to become pack leader), very often they eat first etc etc. None of them have any behavioural issues and they are all well trained gundogs.
 
Ji44y She said sometimes she lets the dog on the bed and sometimes not.....I would not call that consistent.

The problems begin when you allow a dog to get way with all this un-natural behaviour and then try to set boundaries or expect an immediate perfect response....In my experience all the behaviour I describe leads the dog to believe its holds a very dominant position wothin the pack when indeed its place is a the bottom of the pack.
I respect your opinion but like I stated I have vast experience in this subject.
Everyone will have thier own methods and experiences.
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JJ4Y I have to agree that I dont live by the old pack rules.............my dogs would not step a foot out of line but are very happy dogs(see all my rescue pics
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I too allow them to pass through the door b4 me.....but I class myself as a very experienced and sensible dog owner, I know how to nip a problem in the bud well before it gets out of hand, but I dont believe everyone has this ability and therfor need guidance and advice.

I have large breed dogs and lots of rescues coming and going.........I have to work through alot of problems before I re-home......i.e correcting the type of behaviour the lady has described.....that has got out of hand and led to agression.
 
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Smaller dogs on the whole have bigger attitudes than those of there larger relatives

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You would just die at some of the chihuahuas and pomeranians I see out and about in NYC. They get away with murder.

To the original poster, my friend has a 7-year-old JR (plus a rescue terrier mix) and a one-year-old baby. Prior to the baby, the JR had been a notorious ankle biter, had slept in his parents' bed, was vocal, and quite often aggressive to larger dogs. Still, my friend loved him to pieces, and, after working extensively with a trainer -- effectively "re-programming him -- I am happy to report that he is superb with their little daughter.
 
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