very upset-advice needed

he is allowed on the bed whenever he wants. He just chooses to sleep downstairs and sometimes, usually if it is cold comes up and sleeps on the bed. I am always totally consistent with the way I treat him and he know how to behave hoever he gets a lack of consistency with my OH so I think this may cause a problem. I have been dicussing this with OH and I think I may be getting somewhere at last with him.
 
Yep......I can believe that PROSE
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I would like to say thanks to everyone for their advice. TBH it is as much retraining OH as well as the dog. He has agreed to stick to a couple of new rules for now. We are going to speak to our vet to get the name of a trainer as well
Thanks
xx
 
Cala

My dog has always slept on the bed. When hubby goes milking in the morning, Jasper sleeps on his pillow. I just have to tell him "dog-shelf" (the floor) and he gets off on command without fuss. He's allowed anywhere in the house.

I've never had any issues of him thinking he's Alpha male in our house and I've never needed to chastise him for aggressive behaviour towards anyone. He's also perfectly well behaved with the children, even if they sometimes don't respect his space. Although I must admit I had children before I had him. Of course, I have had to chastise him for ransacking the bin rarely or for cocking his leg in the house when he was younger....but not for aggression.

Is this a JRT problem? My dog is a Cocker Spaniel. He's more likely to cry when he's left out of the mix (ie when we go out and leave him in) than he is to attack us. However, he does not like other dogs (but then he is entire).

My first hubby used to own a Westie. I had similar problems with him as another poster has mentioned. Sammy was never babied one jot. I simply believe they're a loyal breed who pick their owner. Not a family dog, but a one person dog. He loved Steve and saw me as a rival to his affection and someone Steve needed protecting against. (I'm sure of it). Would never have had him around the children.
 
In general terriers can be a little faisty......hot tempered, as can westis and cockers in my experience......It is a little hard to explain re- the overlook of the typical behaviour and many people will let their dog on the bed and express alot of the behaviour I mention and yes some breeds are more prone to typical behavioural traits..............but alot of behavioural problems stem from owner error like I mentioned......Some owners can be seen to be a very dominant figure by there dog/dogs even when being allowed to carry out certain routines like getting on the bed and chair, but other behavioural traits may be nipped in the bud by the owner..............but when a problem does start to occur, the normal routine and behaviour has to be evaluated.............as changes have to be implicated and in SIENNAMILLERS case a baby is soon to be introduced....So before this incident becomes a problem I think the dog needs support as well as the owner..........to help prepare for a new arrival just the same as a parent will face jelousy problems with a first born whn a second comes along..........esp when the dog has been treat effectivly like a child......as some do when they have no children.

This may well have been a one off incident.....and SM will probably experience no more problems........but its always better to be safe.
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I totally agree with you, it is far better to be safe than sorry. As a parent of four children I wouldn't forgive myself if my dog attacked one of my children, especially a helpless baby.

I must admit, as soft as Jasper is, I used to put him in a dog run in the garden when the younger two children (as they older two were already born when he came along) were crawling. He would come in at night, and during the day, when they'd gone to sleep. I really feared that crawling around more at his height was the biggest risk. I don't think I needed to do this and it was probably not fair on the dog. However, the crawling phase lasted about 2 months and as soon as they were up on their feet and stable, he was allowed back in as normal.

I know I let Jasper sleep on the bed etc. However, I treat him as a child not a baby really. What I mean is, he has to follow our rules much like the children in the house are supposed to do (emphasis on the supposed to! Ask them to tidy their rooms and they go deaf!) He "trusts" a plate of food. I could put a joint of meat on a plate on the floor as long as I tell him to "trust" he will NEVER take it. He might sit there drooling, but he wouldn't dare take it. Not out of fear of me hitting him as that wouldn't happen. I just assume he respects the rules". Can't abide dogs that jump for feedbowls as you put them down on the floor...hence why "trust" and "take it" were formed. As I said, he knows "dog shelf" and most definitely understands "what's that?" which is a throw back to him not being very well house trained in his younger years
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Obviously he's trained with lots of things and the most important is "dead". He will let go of anything on command of "dead", even another dog! Something he was taught as a beating dog on shoots. You never let go of the catch until asked as it could run off if it's only injured. Bless him.

After my first hubby died and I met my second I did have major issues with his dog. He owned a Patterdale Terrier. Her litter mate had been shot by the farmer for going down a fox hole, coming out and killing one of his other dogs!
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She hated Jasper. She would regularly back him into a corner and have a go at him. Jasper never used to retalitate and it'd be a little snap that would be over as soon as it began. One day, he just snarled back at her and she set on him quite nastily. After separating them Jade (the patterdale) was re-homed. She was a very dominant dog that I had never trusted around my children. Like Siennamiller's problem, Jade would bare her teeth and growl and stand her ground with me. She spent most of her day outside in the garden or shut in the kitchen while OH was at work! Must admit, she was very happy in her new home with a childless couple and stayed with them for 10 years until her death. They didn't let her off in public and understood her issues with other dogs.

Ever since Jade attacked Jasper, he's been wary of dogs who approach him in a less than friendly manner. Happy bouncy dogs, like him, are never an issue. He obviously reads their body language but will growl, snap and engage in a fight with a dog who approaches him "with it's back up".

However, we live on a farm now and Jasper only has cats for company of which he is particularly fond.

Re-homing the Patterdale was a good result all round. Jade was too opinionated to ever change her ways and my priority was to keep the family safe and happy. This included her. She couldn't handle children and other animals entering her territory.
 
[ QUOTE ]
JJ4Y I have to agree that I dont live by the old pack rules.............my dogs would not step a foot out of line but are very happy dogs(see all my rescue pics
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I too allow them to pass through the door b4 me.....but I class myself as a very experienced and sensible dog owner, I know how to nip a problem in the bud well before it gets out of hand, but I dont believe everyone has this ability and therfor need guidance and advice.

I have large breed dogs and lots of rescues coming and going.........I have to work through alot of problems before I re-home......i.e correcting the type of behaviour the lady has described.....that has got out of hand and led to agression.

[/ QUOTE ]

Clearly you have a high opinion of yourself - maybe you should find a little out about the person before you criticise them - JJ4Y works for a major dog assistance charity in the UK, runs her own professional gundog kennels and is a qualified advanced animal behaviourist - you on the other hand keep throwing around hints that you are this that and the other - you do not back this up or offer sound advice. Other than you work for a "large" vets - so do lots of other receptionists.

You post on why its hard to explain why terriers are like this? rubbish they are like it because they are bred to be.

The dominance theory no longer holds water it has been disproved by proper scientific research - the original poster is looking for help in a difficult situation - she needs the help of someone face to face not advice from a forum.

I would be interested in your qualifications and dog experience - facts - rather than, oh done this, done that, work for these - lets here facts.

Regards

Mike
 
[ QUOTE ]
In general terriers can be a little faisty......hot tempered, as can westis and cockers in my experience

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh and a Westie is a terrier!

Mike
 
[ QUOTE ]
Ji44y She said sometimes she lets the dog on the bed and sometimes not.....I would not call that consistent.

The problems begin when you allow a dog to get way with all this un-natural behaviour and then try to set boundaries or expect an immediate perfect response....In my experience all the behaviour I describe leads the dog to believe its holds a very dominant position wothin the pack when indeed its place is a the bottom of the pack.
I respect your opinion but like I stated I have vast experience in this subject.
Everyone will have thier own methods and experiences.
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[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, but I didn't say that they were being consistant...i said that consistancy was important so that the dog knew what it can and can't do.

I also have a lot of experience on this subject. My views and opinions are also shared by many well-respected trainers and behaviourists that no longer use dominance theory because of its flaws. Not all behavioural issues all stem to a dominance issue. Each case should be treated differently.
 
AS USUAL MiLiScer..........which if I am not wrong others have mentioned..............your attitude has once again risen its ugly head.

I dont know weather u have trouble reading a full thread without jumping in like a raging bull
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I did not once critisise JJ4Y infact I remember writing that I RESPECTED her opinion
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Yes I do have a high opinion of myself........I also have a high opinion of others members of the forum......which is why I stated that SIENNAMILLER would get some great advice from forum members inc JJ4Y
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Like JJ4Y I do not follow the old pack rules.....as I stated because I class myself as an experienced and sensible owner like JJ4Y and many others
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As I stated I do have behavioural qualifications............I didnt realise I would have to post a copy of them on the forum to beable to give basic advice in regard to someone asking for help.................I feel u have a real problem with people mentioning there job descriptions....as if I an not mistaken......In the tail docking post u also attacked someone for this mentioning their job as a vet nurse..... your receptionst snipe
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IF MEMORY SERVES ME CORRECTLY U ALSO JUMPED IN WITH "I AM AN X POLICE DOG TRAINER BLA BLA BLA" what a t*sser attitute.
And u also had a go at someones SPELLING/GRAMMER so if that does not prove u r a complete and utter T*SSER i dont know what does.

I gave SIENNAMILLER some advice.....which is a hell of alot more than u have done............If u spent less time attacking forum members and giving advice of which u believe u r the only one allowed
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IF U ALSO READ MY THREADS PROPERLY I DID MENTION SEEKING PROFESSIONAL OUTSIDE HELP......AND NOT THAT ITS ANY OF YOUR BUSINESS I PMd SM to advice her to seek proffesional help...................but like I said u being the complete and utter A*se that u r, read what u like when it suits u.

SM was worried about the approaching baby situation.....which I adviced her how to prepare for the arrival of the baby and be safe in regard to the dog
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I also mentioned in my threads that these breeds can be fiesty and hot headed and that its a breed trait............at the end of the day she was asking should she re-home the dog and others suggested putting him to sleep and I gave my opinion and advice just as everyone else did......after all it is a forum and everyone is entitled to their opinion with out being attacked.

As u stated in another post dogs end up as rescue statistics due to owner error...............that is my point......and surely owner error is due to in-experience, and therefor advice from those more experienced will help the situation.....thus helping the animal
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I AM SORRY BUT...............WHEN SOMEONE MENTIONS HAVING ANY PROBLEM WITH THEIR DOG.......THE ANSWER IS NOT "WELL IT IS A BREED THING AND THERE IS NOTHING U CAN DO" of course u need to look into factors such as home life, owner interaction, sleep and feed habits, age, sex, circumstance of the problem or incident.
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But then again this is why u never give any constructive advice because u obviously have no people skills......unlike myself and J44Y...............u have attacked me today......which makes no difference to me what so ever
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I am sure I wont loose any sleep at night
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but its not helping SM which is the whole point in the post
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I AM ALSO WORRIED FOR YOUR HEALTH.....A MAN OF YOUR AGE SHOULD NOT GET SO STRESSED IN REGARD TO FORUM MEMBERS GIVING ADVICE U DEEM ONLY U AND YOUR FRIENDS SHOULD BE GIVING OUT......MAYBE U SHOULD SET YOUR OWN FORUM UP.

maybe you could call it "GET ALL YOUR ADVICE FROM ME mighty MiLiScer after all I am always right
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Those who shout the loudest have something to hide - just like you.

Point proved. Clearly have something to hide and dont like being challenged - well, welcome to the real world - at least I dont hide behind false pretences.

Have a nice day.

Mike
 
there is only one word to describe the forum posting on this issue and that is pathetic. regardless of who is sat where and what one person says, the issue to be dealt with is the OP! not petty, squabbling between forum members. its people like yourselves who make this forum rather tedious
 
Indeed

My apologies to the original poster. I hope you get the matter sorted with a satisfactory outcome to all concerned. Please seek professional advice and above all - look forward to the birth of your little one.

Regards

Mike
 
JJ44Y.................I had already guessed that u where a very experienced dog owner and that u possibly had behavioural experience also.....judging by your post.......as mighty MiLiScer stated I dont think I have critised u in any way....I stated that I respected your thread..............I also adviced SM to seek professional advice as u will see in my 2nd thread, as dogs can not be fully assesed without evaluating them in person........the advice I gave was in regard to implimenting new rules to make it easier for SM to introduce a new baby......and at the same time help the dog.........I unlike the mighty M read every post.....I have been critised for not mentioning things I have mentioned more than once in each thread(by mighty M) not yourelf.

Like I said I do have behavioural qualifications........I do not think that just because someone has specific qualifictions that can help a situation.....that no one else can give advice.........some forum members with or without qualifications give out some great advice and thats exactly what I told SM..............Did u think like the mighty M said that I was critisising u in any way?

I understand what u where saying re-old pack rules and that is why I agreed that I dont follow them......my dogs as do yours by the sounds of it have respect for u.......by the standards u have taught them...........I would guess that u have at some state implimented rules and encouraged the type of behaviour u expect from your dogs......my point is not everyone does this, and if a problem occurs people need constructive helpful advice.......like I said to mighty M !!WE CANT JUST SAY IT IS A BREED THING AND THATS THAT!!
 
Sorry to digress but it was interesting what Patches said about Westies being one person dogs. The lady who is having ours made the same observation about him. She's had him while we've been on holiday before for several weeks at a time and has had them before so I think she knows him pretty well now.

You're all probably going to make me feel awful about this but have tried for 3 years to get on with this dog and aside from not being very doggy anyway, cannot make myself like him.

He was originally bought by my husbands first wife for their 18 month old son, God knows why anyone gets a puppy for a child that cant even talk but there you go. He was brought up with young kids until they separated and having got my husband to move out she moved husband number 5 in!! She then foisted the dog on my husband as it had bitten her new man (not really surprising) and it lived alone with him for 18 months being the 'only child' and centre of attention.

its fair to say our circumstances have now changed a lot, were both police officers and the powers that be keep changing our shift pattern. As a result the dog is often alone for very long periods and it just isnt fair.

We are letting him go to a lady who is retiring and has asked to have him but I have spent ages beating myself up trying to understand why, as an animal lover generally, I cant take to him. The 'one person dog' observation says it all really, thankyou Patches I feel quite relieved.
 
I agree FLINTUS.......I only posted to give SM advice cos she sounded v upset I even PMd her........now I am being attacked for giving advice without posting my personal cridentials first however.........MiLiScer has made personal attacks b4 and I feel needs to calm it a bit
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I respect your opinion but like I stated I have vast experience in this subject.

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Sorry, but this just sounded like a 'you can have your opinion, but mine's more valid'
 
Not at all I am saying I respect your opinion......i.e I can clearly see u have experience.......however so do I
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Which is why I also stated peole have different methods and experiences
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not that one is right and the other wrong
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Like FLINTUS said in reply to your post its all rather petty..........Like mighty M u clearly get upset when anyone other than yourself gives advice.

I still respect your opinion and have no doubt u are very experienced......
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I don't get upset when anyone other than me offers advice, after all its an open forum and that's what its for, but it seems that on here anyone who isn't a regular poster isn't respected.
 
I'm glad I've helped you to maybe understand your dog's behaviour. It was only my opinion of Sammy and that of other Westie's I knew of at the time.

Sammy was a lovely dog for my first husband, but he never ever took to me. Shame really, as I was always quite smitten with him. He was a real cutie of a dog to look at. It was a classic case of unrequited love, one might say!
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On the contrary, my current Cocker Spaniel is the soppiest dog ever to grace the planet. He's everyone's friend and loves to be made a fuss of. Never chewed anything, always likes to carry a soft toy in his mouth and is generally daft. He's 11 1/2 now and I can't imagine wanting another breed when his time comes.
 
Its a shame this post has ended up the way it has. I'm sure all the people who have posted have all been trying to help the OP but like with horses there are more than 1 training method and what works with one dog might not with another. As numerous people have said and I think the OP has agreed - getting in a professional dog behaviourist would be the best way forward.
As far as Cala is concerned - I have known her for about 5 years and she does indeed work for the biggest veterinary practice in the country...... the PDSA......... where she is a veterinary nurse.
I work with Cala's mum in a private veterinary practice and as one of the senior vets there deal with a large number of their rescue dogs. A lot of these dogs come with a lot of 'issues' and Cala and her mum really dedicate their lives to sorting these dogs out. A lot of very difficult cases end up with Cala's mum - sometimes they have been rejected by other rescue centres in the area due to the problems they have. I would say that the vast majority of these dogs are rehabilitated by the rescue and then have VERY careful placement into private homes if possible, if not some will go into the prison or police service. Very few are hopeless cases. I think this is why Cala feels so passionately about this subject and I don't doubt that all her advice was intended with the dog and the owners interests at heart.
 
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He was originally bought by my husbands first wife for their 18 month old son, God knows why anyone gets a puppy for a child that cant even talk but there you go.

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Eeek!
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I bought my 18 month old daughter her first collie at this age. She also had her pony bought for her at 1 year old. She could certainly walk, TALK and ride at this age.
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Sienna; you've been given a lot of advice here; you just have to filter out the best advice and as many posters have suggested it would be worth your while popping into your local vets to find out if there is a behaviourist local to you who could come into your home and help you with the dog. Best of luck.
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Crikey Tia dont get me started on his ex wife and the various dogs she has had or the logic in having them! How's this for fickle and irresponsible.

Husband no 3 was dumped along with the standard poodle they had together, husband no4 got left with the Westie. With hubby no 5 she got an Old English Sheep dog puppy and was surprised she couldnt deal with its exuberance, given that they are out of the house every day 7.30 til 6pm and live in an average semi. She gets a retired greyhound to calm the OES dog down. It doesnt work so she sends the OES dog packing and gets another retired greyhound. She now has 2 greyhounds which have trashed the hall carpet, wonder how long theyve got before she palms them off on somebody else, God she makes my blood boil and all the time what message does this give to her kids?
 
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