very vey worried

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mle22

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My horse was diagnosed with a stage 3 heart murmur last week and now the blood tests have revealed that she has liver disease. The horse was eventing fit and looks fantastic, shiny coat and bright eyes, only symptoms were lacking in energy and easily tired, no sparkle. Even the vet said she was very surprised by the test results as the horse looks so well, I am so worried about her and don't know what to think. She is now on antibiotics and vitamin B12. Has anyone any experience of anything like this - or any idea what the outlook is, or if there is anything else I can do to help her.
 
Sorry don't know about this condition, but senidng some vibes anyway
smile.gif
Hope your horsey is ok
 
[ QUOTE ]
Sorry don't know about this condition, but senidng some vibes anyway
smile.gif
Hope your horsey is ok

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the vibes. Silence from everyone else is worrying me too!
 
I've no experience either. It sounds quite unusual which probably explains the lack of replies, rather than anything more sinister. Tons of good vibes coming to you and your horse...
 
Oh dear, what a shock this must be to you. It sounds like you have caught it early which is good. Positive vibes to you and your horse.

I feed my horse milk thistle liquid from doson & Horell which is good for liver problems.

Unfortunately, the only thing you can do is nursing and making her more comfortable. I would avoid her going into strong sunlight as liver conditions can cause excessive sunburn.

I am sure your vet will be able to tell you more.

Remember, the good thing is that you got it early and with the right treatment, she can go back to her sparkling self.

Thinking of you

x
 
i can tell you a lot about liver diease due to i only had mine pts 5 weeks ago due to this deadly diease if you send me a personally message you mob number we can talk over phone coz there is a lot of this that need saying it would take forever to write!
 
Hi moyraL - what I would say 1st off is try not to worry. I don't know how a stage 3 heart murmur differs from an "ordinary" heart murmur but I do know that heart murmurs are often only picked up at a pre-sale vetting and often a 2nd opinion will advise that there's nothing wrong. So for peace of mind, I'd get a 2nd opinion from a different vet practice re the heart murmur. I'm guessing you started some investigations because of the tiredness. Did any anaemia come back on the blood test?

Re the liver disease: what exactly have the vets said because it's critical to know this in order to do the right thing for your ned. My rescued mare has severe ragwort poisoning and I have brought her back from the brink. The best ever help was from Professor Derek Knottenbelt of Liverpool University, who is a world expert on ragwort poisoning in horses and horse liver problems in general. He is a saint and always has time for individual queries. He told me that a horse can function with about 70% of its liver damaged. And up to the 70% mark you don't see any symptoms. It's only when the damage gets above 70% that you see classic signs such as depression, lethargy, loss of appetite and photosensitivity. Now, the liver is an amazing organ and can regenerate if damaged UNLESS the damage is due to ragwort poisoning. The breakdown of certain alkaloids in ragwort prevents the liver from repairing itself. So, if your horse is showing signs of liver damage but ONLY because you did a blood test looking for something else, it may not be very far advanced and it may not be ragwort poisoning. It could be a virus or something that your ned's liver can recover from given the right support.

How long have you had your ned and how old is she? Do you know anything of her previous history? The problem with ragwort poisoning is that it can have happened years previously so the owner wouldn't necessarily know anything about it. If your girl may have been neglected or left hungry on poor pasture she may have eaten ragwort. If you've had her from a foal and know she has NEVER had access to ragwort, then it ain't that!

So, to recap: 2nd opinion re the heart murmur might show a different picture and it might be nothing to worry about anyway (not sure what stage 3 means - ask your vets). Liver damage: you need to know how bad it is (vets can advise), is ned showing any photosensitivity, could she have eaten ragwort before you got her? To support her liver while you work all this out your girl needs a LOW PROTEIN diet, keep out of the sunshine, milk thistle to support the liver itself and possibly a Bvit supplement to aid hind gut digestion. Yea Sac is good as it is also an appetite stimulant if your girl is not eating well or has lost any condition. And finally, if your vets advise that it is probably a liver virus and your ned can recover from it, then the above management plus tons of tlc and good nursing should see her come right eventually, though it might be a slow process that needs lots of patience. But if your vets advise the damage is severe and probably due to ragwort poisoning, then contact Prof Knottenbelt (Knotty@liverpool.ac.uk) and get some first class guidance. Don't give up even if the news seems really bad. My ragwort poisoned rescue girl is going off for schooling, mouthing and backing on Saturday! And a year ago, no-one - least of all me - thought she would survive the next few weeks! She needs the training now coz even though she's 12 with a severely compromised liver and has probably popped pretty gypsy cob babies all her life - she is now fat, happy, gorgeous and has enough ATTITUDE for about 8 horses! PM me if I can help any more but good luck xxx
 
Thank you very much to everyone who has replied. It helps to be able to discuss it with people who understand and care. Box_of_Frogs - I have pm'd you
 
Many thanks for all the vibes! The mare is actually my horse too!
To give you a bit more details... the vet told me that her short term and intermediate liver enzymes were highly raised but the long term, chronic ones were normal which implies it is something she has been suffering from for 6 to 8 weeks.
As far as I am aware it is very difficult to determine the cause of the disease without seeing its reaction to treatment. (i.e. ragwort poisoning does not respond to antibiotics and b12 vit) but as she is a rescued horse we can not rule this out although we have had her 5 yrs from a 5 yr old.
Also in her blood was a low protein level (which confuses me as the function of the liver is to breakdown protein and therefore levels in the blood should be high?! Unless it is hyperfunctioning?!)
She also had low levels of globulin and white blood cells which suggests that the problem with her liver is an infection. The red blood count was on the high side of normal so no anemia.

As regards the heart murmur... grade 3 is 3 on a scale of 1 to 6. It is a systolic murmur in the micro-valve between the atrium and ventricle on the left side with significant back flow so think the prognosis on this one is poor!
Would just like to make her feel a bit better.
frown.gif
 
where abouts are u? we use a brilliant kinesiologist from wiltshire i'm sure he would be able to help if your not that far away? pm me if u want to know more...i hope shes ok
 
that last big long post was really from me... I'm moyraLs daughter and it is my horse she is talking about. I have been dealing with the vet so know the details!
buddly we are in Northern Ireland unfortunately but might be worth looking into kinesiology here?!
 
hi i would definatelty if u can find a good one are worth there weight in gold!! cheaper than the vets too and not as invaisive... i'm NOT saying dont use vet (incase anyone thinks that) but they can work well together etc good luck
smile.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
Many thanks for all the vibes! The mare is actually my horse too!
To give you a bit more details... the vet told me that her short term and intermediate liver enzymes were highly raised but the long term, chronic ones were normal which implies it is something she has been suffering from for 6 to 8 weeks.
As far as I am aware it is very difficult to determine the cause of the disease without seeing its reaction to treatment. (i.e. ragwort poisoning does not respond to antibiotics and b12 vit) but as she is a rescued horse we can not rule this out although we have had her 5 yrs from a 5 yr old.
Also in her blood was a low protein level (which confuses me as the function of the liver is to breakdown protein and therefore levels in the blood should be high?! Unless it is hyperfunctioning?!)
She also had low levels of globulin and white blood cells which suggests that the problem with her liver is an infection. The red blood count was on the high side of normal so no anemia.

As regards the heart murmur... grade 3 is 3 on a scale of 1 to 6. It is a systolic murmur in the micro-valve between the atrium and ventricle on the left side with significant back flow so think the prognosis on this one is poor!
Would just like to make her feel a bit better.
frown.gif


[/ QUOTE ]moyral its kelly wo you spoke to on the phone just wondering did you manage to find out what%ish the liver was running at or when they are takin bloods again? when do your antibiotics finish? when are th injection with the vits again?
 
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