Very worried about my friend's dog

So sorry to hear about your friend EP. But what an amazing friend you are, i hope all works out for you and the beautiful Tess
 
Sorry to hear about your friend. You’ve coped admirably considering the tough tragic circumstances and the behavioural nature of her dog. A tricky situation which your willingness to try has helped overcome some issues so her dog is happy. A lucky friend and dog to know you EP…wishing you continued success and hugs 🫂
 
So sorry to hear about your friend. I remember you writing that it wasn’t looking good, but there was hope at that point.

It’s lovely of you to give her dog a chance of having a home with you. She certainly doesn’t sound easy.
Hope she settles in. If not, at least you’ve given her a good chance - can’t do more than that.
 
Sorry for the loss of your friend x

Huge well done for getting to grips with Tess, many a capable dog person wouldn't have got her through how you described her not long ago. I'm in admiration and hope she continues to improve for you.
 
Tess is now taking a step backwards and becoming very dominant. She had a go at my younger dog the other day because she walked past her empty food bowl. I usually pick it up but forgot. She was a nightmare while Jesse was ill as I kept having to get up and see to her and she objected. It doesn't help that I just can't get fond of her or regard her as mine. She is very possessive. I think she regards Maddie as her plaything and me as her property. Doesn't like Maddie coming to me for cuddles. I daren't make a lot of fuss of Tess as then she will become even more possessive. Had a couple of deliveries today, didn't have to answer the door as they are just left in the porch which is off the living room so she hears it all. Reaction is to go into full defense mode, furious barking and rushing back and forth between me and the door. I just ignore her until she calms a bit then tell her to lie down, mostly works. However a little while ago a neighbour put a card through the door and this time she actually managed to nip my arm, no mark but I can feel it. She is a weird dog in that she is very intelligent but only seems to want to use it for her own benefit. Someone who knew Pat and Tess told me that she a frustrating dog as one day you would really think she had learnt to do something and the next day it was gone. I am finding the same thing.
I suspect she is a very insecure dog but one that instead of showing fear goes on the offensive. We had to walk past a stationary empty double decker bus yesterday. Buses are her real nemesis. She slammed the anchors on and growled at it so genuine fear. Was persuaded past without too much effort.
I feel sorry for her because I think she is a very confused dog and she can be very sweet, really snuggles into you. Very torn as to what to do with her.
 
It might be time to consider some pharmaceutical help, just to try and bring the neuroses down to a level where she can relax and settle a bit and feel more secure in herself. Selgian is the dog equivalent of sertraline, my dog has been on it 5 years now and will stay on it for life. It doesn't dope them, just helps them regulate a bit. Sadly it doesn't work for all and I think that 3 months trial is recommended to reliably see the effect on a dog.

I completely emphasise with not being fond of her, just the constant, low level irritation or dread of what next? with the reactiveness and behaviours but with mine, it dawned on me after about 3 months, that I never seemed to have a good word to say him. TBF, it was difficult to find anything to praise most days but I was also on edge waiting for the next bout of undesirable behaviour and in hindsight, he picked up on that which made him more unsettled causing more reactivity...

Positive attention did help a bit but after 6 months, I spoke to my vet as I'd heard about various drugs that were available. The conversation went somewhere along the lines ' one of us needs happy pills, I'm not bothered if it's me or the dog' the vet decided that medicating me was outwith his licence so the dog got selgian.It wasn't a magic bullet, just kept him stable enough that could actually take in the training/behaviour replacement to deal with the explosive reactivity. I weaned him off them last year and promptly put him back on them because as soon he got to half dose, you could see the anxiety coming back.
 
For the resource guarding - voluntary sharing protocol? I used this with my old Westie some years ago (7 or 8 maybe) because she had always been a bit resource guardy and I/other dogs/cats had mainly managed it to that point by just avoiding the triggers as they were few and specific (plus she only ever growled and no more, so was no danger). Well anyway, this voluntary sharing was so effective that I have used it with both dogs that have come along since 'just in case'. I also have a toy/game based version of it that is much enjoyed and has been really excellent for current young Kelpie to learn/practice impulse control.

Obviously the dog you're dealing with is a much more extreme example of resource guarding, so might be no use, but thought it worth a mention.
 
cbmcts said:
It might be time to consider some pharmaceutical help, just to try and bring the neuroses down to a level where she can relax and settle a bit and feel more secure in herself. Selgian is the dog equivalent of sertraline, my dog has been on it 5 years now and will stay on it for life. It doesn't dope them, just helps them regulate a bit. Sadly it doesn't work for all and I think that 3 months trial is recommended to reliably see the effect on a dog.

I completely emphasise with not being fond of her, just the constant, low level irritation or dread of what next? with the reactiveness and behaviours but with mine, it dawned on me after about 3 months, that I never seemed to have a good word to say him. TBF, it was difficult to find anything to praise most days but I was also on edge waiting for the next bout of undesirable behaviour and in hindsight, he picked up on that which made him more unsettled causing more reactivity...

Positive attention did help a bit but after 6 months, I spoke to my vet as I'd heard about various drugs that were available. The conversation went somewhere along the lines ' one of us needs happy pills, I'm not bothered if it's me or the dog' the vet decided that medicating me was outwith his licence so the dog got selgian.It wasn't a magic bullet, just kept him stable enough that could actually take in the training/behaviour replacement to deal with the explosive reactivity. I weaned him off them last year and promptly put him back on them because as soon he got to half dose, you could see the anxiety coming back.
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This sounds very similar to Tess. I am so torn because the sweet loving side of her, mostly seen in the morning. is adorable but the rest is quite honestly frightening. I will take her to her regular vet and see what they suggest. Selgian sounds good. Calming tablets have a limited effect. Thank you.
 
Errin Paddywack said:
This sounds very similar to Tess. I am so torn because the sweet loving side of her, mostly seen in the morning. is adorable but the rest is quite honestly frightening. I will take her to her regular vet and see what they suggest. Selgian sounds good. Calming tablets have a limited effect. Thank you.
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If she is better earlier in the day, after a nice quiet night, it does sound like trigger stacking which builds and builds as things happen during the day. Does she have a witching hour after dinner where the behaviour is OTT? The calming collars and plug ins did help but not enough IME. Despite it being lockdown when I got my eejit, I had a lot of support from the rescue and friends, mainly moral but some practical due to circumstances but that was invaluable and saved me from losing the little bit of sanity I still had. But what worked for him was getting him calm enough so that I was more than ballast on the end of the lead as he lost the plot, getting more and more hysterical each time. This happened at home as well as out so for a long time, we very carefully picked where we walked and when possible with a friend and their calm dog - support for both of us! I learnt the hard way to do anything new in tiny steps and most importantly I got much better at recognising when he was going to blow and de escalating quickly. With mine, I've never managed to totally get rid of unwanted behaviours - he's still and always be a bit of a d**k - but he's much better at replacing them now. I also got him his own emotional support dog :D as he trusts dogs much more than people. The real success was building a relationship with him, me not being cross (and on more than one occasion scared witless as everything went south both for myself and anyone in the vicinity) all the time meant we could both relax.

I am incredibly proud of this dog and now love him dearly but when I was ill a couple of years ago with what could have been a terminal illness - but wasn't luckily- the decision was made that if anything happened to me, he would be PTS. Not that I'm a fantastic handler or anything but the stress to the dog of his life changing would mean that his behaviour would deteriorate until he was settled in a new home. The homes that could tolerate the kind of behaviour that these dogs show are rarer than unicorn poo and the chance of finding one is too high risk for me. What I'm saying, in a very long winded way is that there is no shame in saying you can't doing this and giving Tess a doped to the eyeballs, peaceful end. Sad circumstances brought her to you, unlike me you didn't chose her. I knew what I was getting into albeit I didn't know quite how bad mine would be :)
 
It's so hard as this dog is a link to a dear friend, but she just does not seem to be enjoying life like she should be, and spending a good proportion of her daily life in such distress/anger/extreme excitement would upset me.
Whatever you decide to do you have support from me, please look after yourself too x
 
Well, yesterday I discovered that in with her chip certificate there was the original one with the name and phone number for the person who originally chipped her. I rang her and it turned out to be her first owner and we had a long chat. Lovely woman who told me that up to her first season which was an early one she was perfect and totally normal. After her season, not sure if she had a phantom, she changed and started demonstrating the sort of behaviour I am seeing. They sought a lot of help and consulted a behaviourist. He admitted that although there were one or two small things he could help with basically he couldn't help them. She adored Tess which I can understand because the sweet side of her is fabulous. She is the cuddliest sweetest dog you can imagine when in a calm mood. She was finally reluctantly, returned to the breeder at 11 months and she put her in the hands of the behaviourist my friend had her from. Her owners were given the option to have her back but refused. First owners had had several BCs before her so not novices. It is as though that first season did something to her brain and that just hasn't gone back to normal.
After speaking to her I contacted her breeder. My friend had been giving her updates on Tess but they were oviously not fully truthful as she had no idea of how bad she could be. She knew about the accident but hadn't heard she had died so was very upset about it. Tess has come from a line of collies all renowned for their fabulous temperaments. I am invited to go and meet her mum and grand mother if I want. She would have been used to being with multiple dogs, cats, horses, sounded a lovely place.
Both she and first owner fully understand and agree that PTS might well be the best thing for her. I finished the phone call in tears and immediately had a worried Tess cuddling me and trying to lick my face and make me better. Upshot is that I am going to give her a bit longer, consult a vet about medication and make a real effort to improve her. I just can't give up (yet) on a dog whose basic temperament is so sweet. Until you have had a Tess cuddle it would be hard to understand why I just don't give up.
Both breeder and first owner were very grateful to have been updated on her and thanked me. I will be keeping them informed as to what I decide.
 
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