Vet etiquette

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Darius

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Hi hope my title is appropriate regarding a vets attitude/behavior, so open to comments.
I'll just explain a quick background for my horse. I've managed to rescue a 25 yr old warmblood. Previous owners had neglected her care, amongst other problems and a big weight loss.
The teeth had not been floated for 2 years plus and had lead to her jaw being locked and unable to chew the haylage properly resulting in the weight loss.
We were recomended a good dentist who turned out to be very good. After the initial visit and the horse being on pain we would require to re book and get a vet to attend to sedate her. Working on recommendations we chose a vet to attend and asked for a basic health check to be carried out first and we had some questions to ask.
His bed side manners were not brilliant, can't win them all, he was in a rush rush and after a very quick check he went straight onto sedating her, then rushed off to see another horse on the yard.
The dentist had to call him back as he had miss injected and had no effect. After the next injection it had not fully sedated her and the dentist had to ask him back over to administer a second shot, this time he was muttering under his breath and not happy, being more occupied keeping my horse upright the questions I still had can wait until we were finished, then without a goodbye he leaves, the dentist was furious and said he's not supposed to leave until she shows sign of recovery. To say the least no one was happy with his attitude.
Thankfully she recovered 2 hrs later.
The dentist was brilliant in showing me exactly what problems the horse had what she was doing. But as for the vet I won't be asking back in the future.

2 questions we did get to ask as the previous owner had not done a good job worming her (loosing half to the floor) we asked if we can do a poo sample to check it had worked, the answer was don't bother just give her another shot and worm her every 2 months. Seemed to go against anything I had read!!!!!@
I asked about Cushing disease as she is an older horse and being under weight and I'm no expert, he asked does she drink a lot of water, I said no he replied then she hasn't got it.
Would welcome opinions

Many thanks
 
Your vet is crap but you know that. Worm counts are well worth doing and you're right that you shouldn't just keep chucking chemicals down her throat. I don't know much about Cushings but it's a simple blood test rather than whether or not she drinks a lot of water.

I suggest you look for another vet, particularly omitting to request one that is "cheap" because you tend to get what you paid for. I had a similar experience with a recommended vet who acted like my well behaved but large horse was going to attack him.
 
I would not be calling that vet back in a hurry! his attitude is appalling.

Due to her age I would think it's a good idea to have a Cushings test done. There are many signs of Cushing such as not shedding their winter coat, drinking more than usual, lethargy, depressed immune system etc., but not all horses show these signs - we have one horse on our yard who had only one sign and that was being slightly lethargic. Turns out that this horse has Cushings and EMS and is only 15 years old. I think you can usually get a free Cushings test between June and October. As for worms, you can get a worm count done by Westgate Labs (google for details) and if necessary worm appropriately.

With care your horse will put on weight once she can start chewing properly and gets some decent hay and grass now that summer is on its way. Be prepared to put a lightweight rug on if the weather turns as she will be burning calories to keep warm.

Sounds like your mare has had a lucky break finding you. Well done for taking her under your wing and for giving her such a caring home. Good luck!
 
Wow...the vets attitude was very poor!

I had a welsh B who hadn't had her teeth done for years when we first got her and also had the locked jaw issue same as yours. The first time she had work done she needed enough sedation to knock out several elephants as she was in so much pain she just kept fighting the sedation. By the time the sedation eventually took enough of an effect it took 3 of us to hold her up. It took her a very long time to eat normally and she never really felt happy to relax her neck down and take the bit when ridden.

I bet your horse is feeling much better now despite the ignorant vet! Well done for taking her on. :)

BTW I have a 24 yr old welsh D that I will be getting tested for cushings this year. She doesn't show any obvious symptoms other than those that could also be attributed to old age but I'd rather know if their is an issue and get her on Prascend before Laminitis becomes a problem.

Good luck with your new mare, I expect she will be very rewarding. :)
 
Wow...the vets attitude was very poor!

I had a welsh B who hadn't had her teeth done for years when we first got her and also had the locked jaw issue same as yours. The first time she had work done she needed enough sedation to knock out several elephants as she was in so much pain she just kept fighting the sedation. By the time the sedation eventually took enough of an effect it took 3 of us to hold her up. It took her a very long time to eat normally and she never really felt happy to relax her neck down and take the bit when ridden.

I bet your horse is feeling much better now despite the ignorant vet! Well done for taking her on. :)

BTW I have a 24 yr old welsh D that I will be getting tested for cushings this year. She doesn't show any obvious symptoms other than those that could also be attributed to old age but I'd rather know if their is an issue and get her on Prascend before Laminitis becomes a problem.

Good luck with your new mare, I expect she will be very rewarding. :)
 
Time for another vet!

The advice we got from our (very good) practice with horses with uncertain worming history was to do the 5 day panacur and then tapeworm (equitape). Then move onto regular testing.

Best of luck with her - it sounds like she's landed on her hooves with you.
 
This sounds like something similar to someone I know someone who had her horses teeth done many years ago by her vet.The horse was alleged to have moved around too much so he only did half the job and walked out of the stable in disgust to go to his next job not telling the owner what had taken place.Cue the horse having considerable problems eating and getting a large pocket for food to lie in as a result.The EDT came out as an emergency a day or so later and rectified the problem as the owner could tell almost immediately that there wasa problem.Wasn't till she started asking around other liveries that it transpired what had happened.
 
I would complain to his practice - they need the feedback, even if (as it should) it doesn't get you a major discount or even waive the bill. These vets need to be told and the practice manager or senior partner is best placed to do that. If he is the senior partner (sounds like some of the egotistical old school vets I have encountered over the years) you could let RCVS know, particularly about him not checking for satisfactory recovery from sedation - if that isn't negligence it is bordering on it.
Changing to another vet will not prevent him doing similar to other new clients in future
 
I wouldn't worm count this horse given she has a known poor worming history the risk of a false negative is too high so I agree with the vet on that one and worm her. I can go further into why if you would like.
I don't agree with his cushings conclusion though.

I've known a vet wait for signs of recovery either. From their own work or dental.
 
Ring the practice and impartially inform them of what has transpired.

Stick to the facts, and explain why you were not happy with the service of the vet that attended and see what they say.

Sometimes vets forget we are their clients...
 
Thankyou very much for all the replys, nice to know were not alone.
I take on board about the worming now, but disagree about every 2 months (just my Opinion) but it was more about the "old school Attitude" and behavour that hasnt convinced me of anything proffesional in actions and words.

Another local vet has heard about our problem and has offered to check her out and answer any of our questions for half price and no call out fee. hopefully well get a more proffesional service and advise.

The reason I went with the first vet was that I knew he was the vet used by the previous owner and has dealt with our horse in the past, he denied he had ever seen the horse or even knew of the previous owner, mmmm strange I was hoping that he could have given us some previous medical history and if her flu tetnis etc was upto date as the previous owner has/still refused to hand over the passport (another thread) so I am missing that info that I would normally have seen in the passport. I didnt take the matter with him any further.

Our horse I would descibe to people "as near as a rescue horse" i believe it to be a fair and honest discription, its something that I wont change. heres why. her history is international show jumping inc competing at the olympics many years ago, she was sold for a large sum and brought to the uk where she was worked to a nervous breakdown, she was given to the previous owner on the codition she was not competed again, I could show a video of what she looked like 7 years ago at the age of 18 and discribe her as perfection, 7 years later and 2 foals to which was done for $$$$$$$$$ because of her histrory and breeding then put in foal a 3rd time at the age of 23 , she lost that one after a few days, the owner said she went into depression, it can happen i know, she lost a lot of weight, we were told thats why she lost weight, but they had negleted her basic care, teeth being the main one and as described by the dentist the worst she had seen, no other medication given to her, no change in diet, boxed 23 hrs a day with no turn out over the last 2 years, the previous 5 were most probably simuler, we met her 2,5 months ago and we were shocked at her condition when we removed her blankets, rain scald, very low on weight, hair missing all over the place from sweating with the blankets that had never been removed, not one horse was gromed on the yard, her tail was like poo dreadlocks, she looked as depressed as a horse waiting at a knackersyard, the 2.5 months we were with her we financed her food, beding and love and care, we paid for her feet to be trimmed, the eating improved and she took to my wife and followed her around and her mental attitude improved, she was groomed everyday and taken for walks, but the owner always gave exuses about getting a dentish as she was quidding badly, we said we will pay but still exuses that the dentist wont come out for one horse etc etc, we paid for worming but it still took a week before she finally did it, so we had a horse we cared about but we had little control, she was not ours, it too was depressing for us to see how some of the other horses were being treated, so we bit the bullet and said we couldnt commit any more time to work on her yard and offered to give her a new home with pasture where we could properly get her back to health again, she agreed and sighned over ownership to us, since moving her to the new yard we have a different horse, she loves the field and wants to stay there,shes now the lead mare instead of the depressed horse being pushed around by the others.
for us she our diamond, if she cant be ridden again so be it, shell be walked daily with the dog, we have just completed on purchacing a 154 acre farm in poland which we will move into in 2 years time where she will retire,

Im sorry it a long subject, but hopefully it explains why we call her "as near as a rescue horse" I am in no way an animal activist or a crusader, i was brought up on a farm and I care about animals, but this horse I couldnt walk past, we wouldnt swap her for a 5 yr old or a porshe, we have OUR horse.

back to subject after the vet denying he knew the horse or the previous owner we introduced her to him as this is as good as a rescue horse, her condition has improved but way short of a healthy horse, ( we went to a world horse welfare center, if you had put our horse in there ours would have been the second worst looking horse)so i discribed what we were told of her lifestyle, foals etc didnt say much in the way of critisism about the previous owner as there was little conversation from him
what this vet has now done is to go back to the previous owner and told her we have called the horse a rescue horse, to which the previous owner paid me a visit at the new yard with a very foul mouth demanding she wants the horse back.

This would be over my dead body.........as for the vet I would love to name and shame but im sure I wouldnt be allowed to


Thanks for your time for this long winded explanation
 
Ah well I think that goes some way to explaining it, he wouldn't want to admit a connection with a neglected horse in case his level of treatment was challenged I imagine. Hope it goes ok with the new vet :)
 
A vet cannot discuss what's happened to horses with previous cilents unless the last owners has given permission for them to do so ,it's a very difficult situation for them.start again with a new vet .
 
Unbelievable! that poor horse! she has suffered a great deal and I am so glad that you have her in your care now. As for the vet, he had no right to repeat anything you said least of all to the previous owner. I hope you took photographs of her condition when you first acquired her, or a video because you have evidence of the lack of care which she received under their ownership and that the vet obviously was not carrying out his duty of care either. Any more of their nonsense and I would threaten to send the evidence to the RSPCA with a view to prosecution! In fact, if there are other animals which are suffering maybe the RSPCA should pay a visit.
 
Def get another vet, and i second recommendations that you inform the practice.
If you concerned about cushings then a simple blood test will give you a definitive answer and i highly recommend Worm Egg Count tests - they save a lot of money, reduce chemicals in their systems and also pasture related resistance - plus it gives you a better overview of what is going on inside your horse. Continuing to do saliva and work egg count tests if you can manage your pasture is a good way forward. However an ivermectin based wormer will also kill any mites/lice which can also cause weight loss in older horses if they have had a bad infestation. The winter was mild and damp and creep crawlies love those kinds of conditions!
 
JillA said:
I would complain to his practice - they need the feedback, even if (as it should) it doesn't get you a major discount or even waive the bill. These vets need to be told and the practice manager or senior partner is best placed to do that. If he is the senior partner (sounds like some of the egotistical old school vets I have encountered over the years) you could let RCVS know, particularly about him not checking for satisfactory recovery from sedation - if that isn't negligence it is bordering on it.
Changing to another vet will not prevent him doing similar to other new clients in future
Click to expand...

This!
 
Thanks for replys,

it was a small husband wife operation, I am making a formal complaint and have spoken to the vet concerned and made it clear where we stand regarding the bill, well see if one turns up on the doorstep.

His behavouir just on how he spoke to us lost him 2 prospective customers and will loose him an existing client from the same yard, as for wanting information about the horses injections from the past was a question purley for the horse, didnt want to throw more chemicals into her that may have been needless.

thanks

Darius
 
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