Vet missed multiple things on the vetting certificate

[Jessicalouise1992]

I recently had a horse vetted whom I brought on sales livery. Horse vetted 2 days later he arrived I notice immediately that the horse has a very slightly abnormal backwards walking gate plus also a nodule lump on his forearm also other very obvious scars not noted on vetting .i immediately contact the vet about issues missed they apologise and said thea abnormal walking backwards get was no present at vetting. Fast foward the horse was kicked in the field nasty cut that’s taken 6 weeks to heal when the vet came to sign him off to start work again I asked him about the above only to be told the horse has mild shivers and a sarcoid. Contact previous owner who declares that the lump has always been there she never had it checked and she just assumed the horse was awkward to back up.
so both things the prior to vetting.
i have contacted the vet they have replyied with they have directed this to the professional indemnity insurance people
How hard is this actually to do? Will I need a solister involved.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

Hi Jessica

I would consider:

What outcome are you hoping to achieve?

And;

What outcome could you live with?

It’s difficult to advise without understanding what you want out of the situation.

I’d also suggest that you get the facts together, with times and dates, and all the correspondence between you and the owner, and you and the vet, in one place. It’s useful to have so that you can refer to information as you need but it’s also much better to have all the ground work done if you do decide to engage a lawyer. If you are paying for someone’s time, you want that time to be used effectively.

 

[Jessicalouise1992]

I would like the monatry value I paid for the horse minus what he’s worth with these conditions.
returning the horse is not going to be an option if I’m pursuing the vet Surley

 

[Rowreach]

PeterNatt's useful list of equine solicitors. You need to contact one.

Actons
Tel: 0115 91002200 Caroline Bowler

Hannah Salter (Sale and Purchase disputes, Loans, Livery and Facility Hire Agreements)
Waddington Turner Wall Solicitors
Michael Bower Equine Law

Mark Carter
White Bowker Solicitors
Tel: 01962 844440
www.wandb.co.uk
mark.carter@wandb.co.uk

Andrew Dalton
Who is a solicitor and rides a motorbike having been a courier www.adventurebikerider.com

Helen Niebuhr
Darbys Solicitors
52 New Inn Hall Street
Oxford
OX1 2QD
Tel: 01865 811 7000
01865 811712
Fax: 01865 811 777
www.equine-law.net
E: equine@darbys.co.uk

Jaqcui Fulton Equine Law
Tel: 0121 308 5915
jf@equinelawuk.co.uk
www.equinelawuk.co.uk

Hannah Campbell (Specialise in compensation cases)
Tel: 01446 794196 (Specialises in traffic accidents involving horses)
www.horsesolicitor.co.uk
info@horse solicitor

Hanna Campbell
Horse Solicitors
(Took on case in 2013 on behalf of Claire Berry-Jones) involving making a claim Motor Insurers Bureau (MIB)

Deborah Hargreaves
Edmondson Hall Solicitors and Sports Lawyers
25 Exeter Road
Newmarket
Suffolk
CB8 8AR
Tel: 01638 560556
Tel: 01638 564483
E: solicitors@edmondsonhall.com
E: ah@edmondsonhall.com
www.edmondsonhall.com/page/1r6ef/Home/partner.html
Wrote an article on The Legal pitfalls of Buying and Selling Horses

Elizabeth Simpson Senior Solicitor at law firm Andrew M Jackson
Tel: 01482 325242
www.andrewjackson.co.uk
enquiries@andrewjackson.co.uk

David Forbes or Belinda Walkinshaw
Pickworths Solicitors
6 Victoria Street
St Albans
Hertfordshire
AL1 3JB
01727 844511

Mark de-villamar Roberts
Langleys Solicitors Equine Law Group
Tel: 01904 683051
E: mark.Roberts@langleys.com
www.equinelawyers.co.uk

Elizabeth Simpson
Senior Solicitor
Andrew Jackson
Yorkshire
Tel: 01482 325242
www.andrewjackson.co.uk

Richmond Solicitors
13-15 High Street
Keynsham
Bristol
BS31 1DP
Tel: 0117 986 9555
Fax: 0117 986 8680
enquiries@richmonssolicitorsco.uk

Jacqui Fulton
Giselle Robinson Solicitors

Inderjit Gill
Jacksons Specialist Equine Solicitor
(Represented Gaynor Goodall in an accident on a bridleway on Tameside County Court 01 February 2010).

Knights Solicitors
Tunbridge Wells
Tel: 01892 537311
www.knights-solicitors.co.uk
Work with GRC Commercial Bailiffs
Senior partner very good on equine matters

Horse Solicitor
Tel: 01446 794 196
info@horsesolicitor.co.uk
www.horsesolicitor.com

www.laytons.com

Mary Ann Reay Charles or Chris Shaw
Shaw and Co Solicitors
Equine Law Specialists
Tel: 0800 019 1248
info@shawandco.com
www.shawandco.com

Tozers www.tozers.co.uk

 

[Jeni the dragon]

Did you try him before the vetting?

 

[LadyGascoyne]

Legal professionals will be able to advise you on the technically correct options around pursuing the vet much better than I can. So I’d absolutely engage a solicitor if that’s the route you’re going to take.

Personally, I would look at it from the perspective of cost versus worth though, so the thinking I’d apply to the situation is:

What purpose does the vetting certificate state that the horse is fit for? Does the new diagnosis change that?

What is the value of the horse, and what is the presumed new value? Is that value difference material? And is the total amount large?

I’m assuming the sales livery is not a dealer and that the sale is private but the owner of the horse still might accept return / refund. Emotions aside, is that perhaps a better outcome?

If I can’t / don’t want to return the horse, then is it worth my time, emotional stress and money to pursue whatever that presumed value difference is?

Unless you have a loss of use for the purposes the vetting cleared the horse for, and a significant value drop, my gut feel is that it would be difficult to get much back compared to what you’ll have to put in. So - again, personally - I’d consider returning the horse or chalking it up to experience and bad luck, and moving on.

 

[Barton Bounty]

What lady g said!!!
Before you get too attached

 

[Jessicalouise1992]

Did you try him before the vetting?

Yes

 

[Jessicalouise1992]

Legal professionals will be able to advise you on the technically correct options around pursuing the vet much better than I can. So I’d absolutely engage a solicitor if that’s the route you’re going to take.

Personally, I would look at it from the perspective of cost versus worth though, so the thinking I’d apply to the situation is:

What purpose does the vetting certificate state that the horse is fit for? Does the new diagnosis change that?

What is the value of the horse, and what is the presumed new value? Is that value difference material? And is the total amount large?

I’m assuming the sales livery is not a dealer and that the sale is private but the owner of the horse still might accept return / refund. Emotions aside, is that perhaps a better outcome?

If I can’t / don’t want to return the horse, then is it worth my time, emotional stress and money to pursue whatever that presumed value difference is?

Unless you have a loss of use for the purposes the vetting cleared the horse for, and a significant value drop, my gut feel is that it would be difficult to get much back compared to what you’ll have to put in. So - again, personally - I’d consider returning the horse or chalking it up to experience and bad luck, and moving on.

Yes the horse was brough for a substance amount of money and the difference would be around 10000

 

[Jessicalouise1992]

I would have never brought a horse with a sarcoid and ultimatly shivers is a degenerative condition so no he would have not passed the vet with this well should t have anyhow

 

[Barton Bounty]

Holy moly jessica, you need to take that further ?

 

[Barton Bounty]

I would have never brought a horse with a sarcoid and ultimatly shivers is a degenerative condition so no he would have not passed the vet with this well should t have anyhow

It should have been detailed! And no not passed! It may have been downgraded

 

[Flyermc]

If ive got this correct

You viewed a horse and wanted to buy it
You got the horse vetted and it passed
2 days later you got the horse delivered, noticed items missing from the vet report (a lump and a strange backwards movement) and queried immediately with the vetting vet
The vetting vet mentioned that these were not present at the time of the vetting
The horse then got injured and your vet treated the injury and confirmed the horse had a sarcoid and shivers
You contacted the previous owner (not the sales livery) who confirmed that the horse has always have a strange backwards movement and a lump
You contacted the vetting vet who has said that the matter has been referred

Is this correct?

If the previous owner is willing to standby there statement, then these issues will have been present at the time of the vetting and should have been recorded and disused with you. Your decision to buy the horse, might have changed based on this additional information.

It might be difficult to prove that the horse was miss-sold, unless is was via a dealer (no idea about sales livery)

 

[LadyGascoyne]

Yes the horse was brough for a substance amount of money and the difference would be around 10000

In that case, definitely engage a solicitor.

 

[Jessicalouise1992]

If ive got this correct

You viewed a horse and wanted to buy it
You got the horse vetted and it passed
2 days later you got the horse delivered, noticed items missing from the vet report (a lump and a strange backwards movement) and queried immediately with the vetting vet
The vetting vet mentioned that these were not present at the time of the vetting
The horse then got injured and your vet treated the injury and confirmed the horse had a sarcoid and shivers
You contacted the previous owner (not the sales livery) who confirmed that the horse has always have a strange backwards movement and a lump
You contacted the vetting vet who has said that the matter has been referred

Is this correct?

If the previous owner is willing to standby there statement, then these issues will have been present at the time of the vetting and should have been recorded and disused with you. Your decision to buy the horse, might have changed based on this additional information.

It might be difficult to prove that the horse was miss-sold, unless is was via a dealer (no idea about sales livery)

Yes that’s correct . I don’t think it’s the sales livery fault

 

[Ambers Echo]

It is clearly very unfair on you and it appears to be the vet who is at fault. But what legal redress you now have, I don't know. The owner may take the horse back if she is attached to it and accepts the horse had these issues while in her care and she would have been responsible for addressing them or pricing very differently if the vet had done his job properly. But I don;t think legally she has to take him back now. I think (no expert) that a seller can only not KNOWINGLY mis-sell a horse. A dealer has to accept a return if the horse is not as described even if they did not know. Don;t know where sales livery sits (whether dealer rules apply or private sale rules) and I don't know what the time limits for action are - you have clearly had the horse some time. But you may have the right to return.

So I'd maybe let owner and sales livery know the situation first and say you want to return. And if that gets you no further, seek legal advice. Hopefully the vets will be liable to pay you compensation or you will discivder the sales livery is classed as a dealer and will accept the horse back.

I had a similar situation in that a horse passed a vetting but on arrival I saw he had a club foot, though he was sound on it. My vet wrote a letter saying this was present from birth and the horse was not fit for purpose as the foot was under excessive and abnormal strain and would break down at a very young age. The dealer initially said I needd to take it up with the vetting vet, but my contract was with the dealer not the vet and he sold me a horse not fit for purpose, whether he intended to or not. He accepted the horse back and swapped him for Amber.

Hope it works out for you.

 

[rextherobber]

That said, the previous owner may not want a horse returned that now has a field injury...

 

[Jessicalouise1992]

Was a small wound since healed

 

[Flyermc]

Was a small wound since healed

How are you getting on with the vet?

 

[Goldenstar]

The vet has said they will refer it to their insurers that’s what they pay insurance for .
They messed up, it needs sorting .
You need an equine solicitor to deal with the vets insurer .
They will advise you what you do about calculating the size of the claim .
Rotten luck but it happens .

 

[Jessicalouise1992]

the evidence is all with vds now so far they have been very easy to deal with.

 

[Goldenstar]

I wish you a good outcome and wish all the luck in world to the horse .

 

[Ellibelli]

the evidence is all with vds now so far they have been very easy to deal with.

Please be very careful with the VDS - in my experience and that of other people I know who have dealt with them, the VDS are far from easy to deal with. I won my case but only because I had a very good equine solicitor (check if you have legal expenses cover on your home insurance) and my case was a very black and white case, but the VDS still tried very hard to wriggle out of it

 

[Birker2020]

I wish you all the best too. I hope it works out for you.

 

[alibali]

As far a the VDS goes I found them reasonably straight forward and polite to deal with. My case was not quite as black and white as yours. The offer was on the low side of fair in relation to costs I will incur, I evidenced this and the offer was increased to cover the additional costs. They would not countenance any settlement for additional secondary costs incurred or stress/injury to feeling. It was clear that I would need to fight either through lawyers or the ombudsman if I wanted to pursue that. Given the circumstances of my case and the additional expense and aggravation involved in doing so I decided to accept their revised offer. I feel I have been treated fairly but not generously. There is no bad taste in my mouth.

I hope you have a successful outcome, do consider what you would consider an acceptable outcome before time, remember you don't have to accept an offer if you believe it's not fair.

 

[Jessicalouise1992]

Please be very careful with the VDS - in my experience and that of other people I know who have dealt with them, the VDS are far from easy to deal with. I won my case but only because I had a very good equine solicitor (check if you have legal expenses cover on your home insurance) and my case was a very black and white case, but the VDS still tried very hard to wriggle out of it

I will use a solister if I need to I have one that has given advice just not acted on my behalf yet. If you can prove the issues and several others where there prior to vetting what grounds do they use to get out of it x

 

[Ellibelli]

I will use a solister if I need to I have one that has given advice just not acted on my behalf yet. If you can prove the issues and several others where there prior to vetting what grounds do they use to get out of it x

In my case they tried to claim the issue had a very nominal affect on his value. Just be aware that they are in the business of paying out as little as possible and will be very much working for the vet and not you. Also, unless you can get something in writing from the previous owner confirming that the sarcoid and shivers had always been an issue, then they might try and claim the sarcoid appeared as a result of a change of home, and as shivers is often progressive, that it wasn't present at the time of vetting. Good luck x

 

[Jessicalouise1992]

In my case they tried to claim the issue had a very nominal affect on his value. Just be aware that they are in the business of paying out as little as possible and will be very much working for the vet and not you. Also, unless you can get something in writing from the previous owner confirming that the sarcoid and shivers had always been an issue, then they might try and claim the sarcoid appeared as a result of a change of home, and as shivers is often progressive, that it wasn't present at the time of vetting. Good luck x

Yes i have confirmation of odd backwards walking gait and lump in armpit these are the main devaluing aspects however there are numerous other scars also not notes on the vetting