Pearlsacarolsinger
Up in the clouds
I do wish people would get a grip! Wallowing in drama like that does no-one any good. Such teenage behaviour!
I do wish people would get a grip! Wallowing in drama like that does no-one any good. Such teenage behaviour!
Exasperated
Well-Known Member
Well, in event of all these regularly reported hysterical displays / nervous collapses / threatened suicides - which I have never heard our vets mention, altho accept it probably dies occur - vets should simply and immediately disengage. Perfectly possible to remain polite and professional, but that is not within the remit of any veterinary practice. Refer them on, and out the door.
Our vets are sympathetic and supportive, they’re decent human beings, we’re good customers, personal friends with some, but that sort of relationship would be straight out the window if any client abused the trust.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
I’m not sure crying because you’ve had to let a pet go is wallowing in drama, or teenage behaviour.
I’d love not to cry but haven’t managed it yet even though I’m pragmatic overall.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
I think most spend their life being polite and professional and with the animals best interest at the forefront regardless of the media.
Amy May In A Manger
Well-Known Member
I have to disagree, I'm sorry. I think people are allowed to be upset on the loss of their pet. It's not drama to cry.
I was pretty composed when we lost Jack. The day that I loose Daisy I'll be a complete basket case.
teapot
Well-Known Member
I guess it was sadly inevitable that vets would end up having to manage the human aspect where common sense, rational thought and education/understanding are on the decline, but the what about my rights, google says x,y,z, you didn't do enough comments are on the rise. Oh and not forgetting perhaps the reduction in financial responsibility versus the increasing right to have a pet.
Getting emotional and caring is 100% fine and totally acceptable; threatening a vet in any form, or taking straight to social media to complain because 18 year old overweight Fido couldn't be saved is not.
Getting emotional and caring is 100% fine and totally acceptable; threatening a vet in any form, or taking straight to social media to complain because 18 year old overweight Fido couldn't be saved is not.
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Amy May In A Manger
Well-Known Member
Agreed.
cbmcts
Well-Known Member
Not that many years ago, I probably would have joined in with the grumbles about the cost of vet treatment as the prices started to rise because I, just like most people I guess really did find it scary and worry that I would be priced out of having pets.
However, right at the beginning of the first lockdown I had a poorly dog, symptoms were a bit vague but over a couple of weeks, he was getting worse not better. In normal times, after week 2, I would have asked for a referral to RVC or similar and got an appointment in a couple of days. I know it was unprecedented times but it took me having a mini meltdown, in tears in the vets carpark saying 'look at this dog, he's starving to death, he's getting worse not better, he is now an emergency surely?' (he'd dropped 30% of his body weight in a month and he wasn't fat to start with) before I could get a referral and even then it wasn't with one of the big specialist hospitals. I lost him after emergency surgery because he was so weak and while I don't blame anyone for that, I'm certain if he had been diagnosed and operated on even 2 weeks earlier, he would have survived. It was a lesson for me - I took so much for granted that all the qualified vets with their high tech diagnostics and very expensive machines would always be available to my animals when they needed them and I then had a choice. CTs and MRIs weren't available to people let alone animals until relatively recently but they cost a lot and if we expect vet practices to invest in these, then as businesses they need to make use of them to cover that investment. I want vets to get a decent wage, especially if they are working unsocial hours because I really value being able to pick up a phone and have an appointment quickly when I am seriously worried about one of my animals.It wasn't good in 2020/21 when the huge upturn in pets coupled with the lack of EU vets meant that vet appointments became nearly as difficult to get as a GP appointment for a while and I live in a highly populated area with a lot of vets.
That's not to say that I think that any vet practice should have sales opportunities rather than animal care as their first and foremost priority but having a viable business is important otherwise why would they bother? While the corporate business model does have big issues, they have also over the years brought a culture of having a much bigger range of equipment/diagnostic tools available locally albeit at a cost. It's not easy, especially financially and I don't have the amount of animals that I used to have even 20 years ago just because I can't afford to. But to me, part of being a responsible owner is ensuring that I can afford to treat each animal to reasonable (not always the gold standard, supervet styley because for many animals that would not be in their best interests IMO) standard. But I'm also not afraid or embarrassed to ask if there is an alternative to an expensive treatment. In my book, it's perfectly reasonable discussion to have with a professional you are working with and ultimately the decision to proceed or otherwise is yours as are the consequences of the decision you take. That's just a sad part of being an adult.
However, right at the beginning of the first lockdown I had a poorly dog, symptoms were a bit vague but over a couple of weeks, he was getting worse not better. In normal times, after week 2, I would have asked for a referral to RVC or similar and got an appointment in a couple of days. I know it was unprecedented times but it took me having a mini meltdown, in tears in the vets carpark saying 'look at this dog, he's starving to death, he's getting worse not better, he is now an emergency surely?' (he'd dropped 30% of his body weight in a month and he wasn't fat to start with) before I could get a referral and even then it wasn't with one of the big specialist hospitals. I lost him after emergency surgery because he was so weak and while I don't blame anyone for that, I'm certain if he had been diagnosed and operated on even 2 weeks earlier, he would have survived. It was a lesson for me - I took so much for granted that all the qualified vets with their high tech diagnostics and very expensive machines would always be available to my animals when they needed them and I then had a choice. CTs and MRIs weren't available to people let alone animals until relatively recently but they cost a lot and if we expect vet practices to invest in these, then as businesses they need to make use of them to cover that investment. I want vets to get a decent wage, especially if they are working unsocial hours because I really value being able to pick up a phone and have an appointment quickly when I am seriously worried about one of my animals.It wasn't good in 2020/21 when the huge upturn in pets coupled with the lack of EU vets meant that vet appointments became nearly as difficult to get as a GP appointment for a while and I live in a highly populated area with a lot of vets.
That's not to say that I think that any vet practice should have sales opportunities rather than animal care as their first and foremost priority but having a viable business is important otherwise why would they bother? While the corporate business model does have big issues, they have also over the years brought a culture of having a much bigger range of equipment/diagnostic tools available locally albeit at a cost. It's not easy, especially financially and I don't have the amount of animals that I used to have even 20 years ago just because I can't afford to. But to me, part of being a responsible owner is ensuring that I can afford to treat each animal to reasonable (not always the gold standard, supervet styley because for many animals that would not be in their best interests IMO) standard. But I'm also not afraid or embarrassed to ask if there is an alternative to an expensive treatment. In my book, it's perfectly reasonable discussion to have with a professional you are working with and ultimately the decision to proceed or otherwise is yours as are the consequences of the decision you take. That's just a sad part of being an adult.
LadyGascoyne
Still Fig-uring it out...
I think transparency of pricing could be very supportive to vets.
It would be useful for clients to be able to consider things like the out of hours charges ahead of time.
Out of hours fees around our area apparently range from £150 to £370. I'm sure for lots of valid reasons including the staff costs and the cost of the premises. Our vet charges just under £300. That won't stop me using them but if I were to be in a financial pickle at any point and something happened to a pet, it would be good to know that there is one half the price nearby.
It's also useful for clients to go into vet treatment discussions with a ballpark expectation of the costs of things, and the ability to compare costs. It should hopefully help people come to terms with costs and be more prepared.
It would be useful for clients to be able to consider things like the out of hours charges ahead of time.
Out of hours fees around our area apparently range from £150 to £370. I'm sure for lots of valid reasons including the staff costs and the cost of the premises. Our vet charges just under £300. That won't stop me using them but if I were to be in a financial pickle at any point and something happened to a pet, it would be good to know that there is one half the price nearby.
It's also useful for clients to go into vet treatment discussions with a ballpark expectation of the costs of things, and the ability to compare costs. It should hopefully help people come to terms with costs and be more prepared.
Exasperated
Well-Known Member
None of the veterinary employees are complaining about owners’ misery over losing a pet - apart from anything else, owners’ affection for their animals is the vets’ bread and butter - it’s the disproportionate histrionics and coercive nonsense seem to be upsetting them, and I’m not surprised.
Amy May In A Manger
Well-Known Member
Well, yes.
druid
Well-Known Member
Over here a clinic will not see you out of hours unless you are already a registered client with them unless there is extenuating circumstances such as being on holiday, it is also still at the vet on calls discretion.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
I’m also grateful most people have a choice of vets within say a half hour area, many countries don’t get that privilege/are lucky to have one.
And ooh that will see you, I think it’s rare/never they say sorry we’re full. They might advise it’s not necessary or a long wait as there’s more critical cases but at least in the US it seems they shut the doors.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
That’s why the posts quoted weren’t vets posts because it wasn’t them that said it.
Cragrat
Well-Known Member
I honestly adore my vet. The only thing he could do wrong is retire. I really respect him, I love that he has a wealth of experience, is pragmatic, open minded, and keeps up to date. He is happy to admit when he isn't sure, and needs to seek advice / second opinions.
I was dissappointed when a younger vet at the practice seemed a little dismissive of his 'old-fashioned' ways, but recently had a different younger vet who was delightfully keen to learn everything she could from him, and said she'd be pleased if she could be hlaf the vet he was.
paddy555
Well-Known Member
they certainly don't help transparency. It was only when I managed to get hold of a copy of the bill that had been sent direct to the insurer without me ever seeing or knowing what had been charged that I really found out what had happened that my vet hadn't told me about like the £1000 for a single night in their IC that I had no idea had happened and certainly didn't authorise.
I will always ask for copies of bills sent direct to insurers in future with any animal. It is the only way to know what is going on especially if you have to pay an older dog excess.
HorsesRule2009
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure where you are but around here especially with equine we receive all invoices regardless of whether it's insurance or not.
We get alot of calls from people complaining because they've received the invoice yet it's on insurance -you can't win sometimes- yet if they read to the end it clearly states if on insurance will also have directly gone to them a d it's purely fir clients own records.
Also I think it's hard as alot of clients want gold standard care on a shoe string budget which just isn't possible.
We've had complaints where the vet has recommended xyz testing client had declined on cost grounds and then still complained at the end as further testing wasn't done.
When you explain the vet recommended it you get back lash as they couldn't afford it.
Vet practices are still businesses they have to earn enough to keep going and can't carry out gild standard without added cost.
I agree routine work should be more transparent but certain things are hard to price as can sometimes be different depending if an add on to other investigations or stand alone.
WrongLeg
Well-Known Member
I originally started this thread to discuss regional monopolies by IVC, Evidensia and Mars - and uncompetitive pricing - not moan about *vets, the biggest victims of monopolies*. (Unless they were the partner that sold out).
This is vets income and there is only one employer for them to choose form in a 100 mile radius, let alone within distance of School Pick Up.
Some local vets refused to work for IVC altogether.
Subsequent to my post, the Cairngorms National Park & The Council have supported two new independent vet practices: this is the way forward.
This is vets income and there is only one employer for them to choose form in a 100 mile radius, let alone within distance of School Pick Up.
Some local vets refused to work for IVC altogether.
Subsequent to my post, the Cairngorms National Park & The Council have supported two new independent vet practices: this is the way forward.
WrongLeg
Well-Known Member
IVC Evidensia owns more than 2,200 clinics, hospitals and out-of-hours sites across 19 countries. It employs more than 28,000 people, and treats more than 6.5 million pets a year. It is owned by Swiss food company Nestlé and a couple of private equity firms, and valued at about £11bn. That’s more than the market value of Sainsbury’s and Marks & Spencer combined.
CVS Group, which owns more than 500 practices, a string of diagnostic laboratories, and seven pet crematoria. It is listed on the stock market in London and worth about £780m. Its shares fell 25% yesterday on the news of the full CMA investigation.
Pets at Home, the pet supermarket, owns more than 448 practices via its Vets for Pets and Companion Care subsidiaries. Its shares fell 4% yesterday.
Medivet, which has more than 500 branches and 27 veterinary hospitals across the UK, Germany, Spain and France.
VetPartners, which was founded by vet Jo Malone in 2015, has more than 500 sites, two veterinary nursing schools, laboratories, a locum agency, online pharmacy, and 14 pet crematorium sites.
Mars, the American conglomerate famous for the chocolate bar, owns 59 primary care practices and 17 referral vet hospitals in the UK via its Linnaeus subsidiary. Mars owns a further 2,500 vet clinics or hospitals around the world, and more than 40 pet food brands including Pedigree, Whiskas, Cesar, Sheba and Royal Canin. It also owns “cat crack” treats Dreamies and cat litter brand Catsan.
CVS Group, which owns more than 500 practices, a string of diagnostic laboratories, and seven pet crematoria. It is listed on the stock market in London and worth about £780m. Its shares fell 25% yesterday on the news of the full CMA investigation.
Pets at Home, the pet supermarket, owns more than 448 practices via its Vets for Pets and Companion Care subsidiaries. Its shares fell 4% yesterday.
Medivet, which has more than 500 branches and 27 veterinary hospitals across the UK, Germany, Spain and France.
VetPartners, which was founded by vet Jo Malone in 2015, has more than 500 sites, two veterinary nursing schools, laboratories, a locum agency, online pharmacy, and 14 pet crematorium sites.
Mars, the American conglomerate famous for the chocolate bar, owns 59 primary care practices and 17 referral vet hospitals in the UK via its Linnaeus subsidiary. Mars owns a further 2,500 vet clinics or hospitals around the world, and more than 40 pet food brands including Pedigree, Whiskas, Cesar, Sheba and Royal Canin. It also owns “cat crack” treats Dreamies and cat litter brand Catsan.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
vets for pets mostly franchises no?
Landcruiser
Well-Known Member
That's an awful lot of shareholders and corporate office staff and management to pay...