Vet or breeder question..spaying timeline after a c section..

[Bellasophia]

Im hoping to take on a 5year old mini schnauzer.Healthy dog,ch titled,gifted,provided I spay.
Scenario..
she whelped eight pups on Jan 11th.2022.
.had a C section.
third litter.
(2nd litter was 2019 ..also 8 pups.)

Now the breeder has offered me the mother dog and I’m thrilled to take her.( I’d hoped for a female pup,but the litter was mostly boys and no girl for me)
I will be expected to take her and spay her.I’m fine with that.

My questions are
1..when will she finish lactation?
2. when will the pups be independent of her?..the breeder has nine small.schnauzers at home ,so the pups will be able to mix with the household pack.
2…When is the best time to spay? ( I have an intact male in my house so don’t want her to come back into season ,and want to spay as soon as it’s safely advised for her.
3..After a c section,then a spay..how long before she will be back to normal walks etc?

I want to allow her a few weeks to settle in with us before we spay her.

When would be the best date to bring her home?

Ive never bred a litter and this is a new scenario for me.
Obviously I’m going to talk to the breeder..but i would also like to havea independent idea of the timeline if possible to make my arrangements for the best insertion into our home.
…thanks!!

 

[twiggy2]

You need to speak to your vet about the best time to spey but honestly it would have been at the time of the c section. Poor dog will now need another ga and the breeder really ought to foot the bill as far as I am concerned they have earned their money from the dog and should make sure she cannot be bred from before she leaves their house/kennels.
I am curious she had her second litter at 2? How old was she when she had her first?

 

[Clodagh]

I agree why on earth didn’t the breeder get her done at the time!?

 

[Bellasophia]

Hi twiggy..this is not a byb.He is a very conscientious show breeder,all dogs are health tested and three litters was going to be this dogs last..he keeps all his oldies and spays them .He told me he has never rehomed any of his oldies,and when I visited them there they all were living a lovely life,either on his settee or running a large field size garden.
I was on his puppy list for a female..my own little schnauzer is on limited time now( colon cancer)..and I’ve been waiting for a pup even before the litter was born.
I went to see the breeder and met the pregnant mom and fell in love with her..I jokingly offered to buy her too in the future,but he was adamant he didnt sell his older dogs.The litter was 7 boys and just one girl whom he will keep to continue this important line. I thought that was that..but a few days after they were born he asked if I would like the female as a gift..I just had to,promise to spay so she won’t be bred again.This is an important dog,French champion,a joy to see and a wonderful character. it is not a fob off..rather he is being very generous to the dog to see she has a full life at five ,rather than be an at home dog in the pack of oldies.

As I understand things( see link) you don’t immediately spay-a c section dog as they risk losing too much blood,can die with low blood pressure…etc

https://www.pleasantvalleyvetservic...t_to_Spay_Your_Bitch_at_the_Time_of_Her_C.pdf

as I say I’ve never bred myself,so really would appreciate a time line..I want to bring the dog home a few weeks before I spay,yet give her time to recover from the section ,as well as not be too close to a new season.


edit..ive just rang the breeder to ask how she is…..he said this is her second litter..first ( also 8 pups ) was 2019..my mistake.

 

[Highmileagecob]

If you spay at the time of a c-section, the bitch will stop lactating, because you have removed her ovaries. Blood loss is a huge possibility, plus the shock of such a major operation. Puppies will wean between 9 and 12 weeks, and will probably be rehomed around that age.. Ask the breeder when he would expect her to come into season again, and pass this on to your vet. Then a sensible time line can be set up. Have fun!

 

[Clodagh]

It makes sense about the reasons not to spay at the time.
I hope you can find an optimum time but you may just have to weather a season? Not much fun and I hope someone can come up with a plan.

 

[Bellasophia]

Thank you highmileage cob…..that’s very helpful.

Clodagh.…ive my 9 yr old,entire male stpoodle here….years ago hub and I did “separate living” for three weeks when my schnauzer had her first season,prior to her spay..my poodle was a fixated mess.I swore I’d not go through that again if possible.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

She shouldn't come into season very quickly after weaning. The pregnancy would be 9 weeks, lactation usually stops when the pups are fully weaned before they are 8 weeks old and ready to leave mum permanently,so that would be 4 months after the last season.That would give you 2 further months until the next season. You really need to speak to the vet but actually I think she would need to have another season so that you can spay at 3 months after the season - mid-way between seasons and I guess he will be better set up to manage her without risking another pregnancy. You could offer to pay for the spay, if he keeps her until after the op and recouperation.

 

[Bellasophia]

Thanks pearls..I did ask when we had our first conversation if his vet could do the spay and I would pay for that..but he said he preferred my vet does the spay .ie I think he’d be happier if he had the dog in my care at that point.I imagine he will be overwhelmed if he’s keeping a new pup,maybe two from this litter,swelling his numbers .
Now,I’ve lots to think about.

 

[druid]

Spaying at c-section is not recommended anymore in most cases. In some cases (rescues, client unable to afford a second op etc) it is done but it affects the dog's hormone profile permenantly.

Usually I would usually allow bitch to come in season again and spay 12 weeks later.

 

[MurphysMinder]

I had a bitch spayed during a c section , but it was an emergency as she was haemorrhaging. It didn’t affect her milk and she reared 8 pups no problem. Given a choice though I would have left her to have a season after the litter then spay 3 months after that .

 

[Bellasophia]

hi Druid..if this girl were spayed without letting her cycle again would this be ill advised
a )because she needs to physically recover from c section/feeding her large litter
b )her hormones would remain out of kilter
or both?
I want to do my best by her.

I can keep her safe during a season,but I worry for my male dog who is at risk for his prostate if he is under the same roof as an in seasonfemale.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I think you need to speak to your own vet to get his perspective and discuss thoroughly with the breeder. My aunt had a link with a breeder of poodles and rehomed a few of his ex-breeding bitches but they were all spayed before they left him.

 

[Bellasophia]

I will be seeing my vet this month to do my ecogram update for my 7 yr old schnauzer ( colon cancer).
She is my priority at the moment.We're in stage four.
I can discuss the scenario and now feel more informed..thanks to those who responded.

I have slept on the replies and am in agreement with the need for the future newcomer to be given recovery time before her spay. So yes ,let her have a season,then spay.
I am going to ask the vet to chemically castrate my boy to allow us to go through her season ,without triggering his prostate( which happened during my own girls firstseason( before her spay).

This is a really difficult time for my current girl and the plan was to bring in a new pup after she passed.
As they say life happens..there is no little female for me….and then the mom was offered to me..
Ive never bred a litter,so the timelines for coming back into season are different ,to bringing in a pup etc..
I also would also have expected the mother to be spayed before she left the breeder....however,he normally keeps his girls ,so this a first for him too.He saw we would be a perfect fit.She’s still a young dog and we loved her at first meeting.
If this all falls throughI would still return to this breeder for a pup.He’s old school,very honest ,he health tests,shows and studies his lines…and most importantly,cares for all his dogs.

 

[druid]

If you don't want to chemically castrate your boy collecting him several times while she is in season could be an option

 

[Bellasophia]

Druid..you’ve brought a smile to my face..he’d probably love that,but I don’t think I’m up for it LOL.

 

[druid]

Druid..you’ve brought a smile to my face..he’d probably love that,but I don’t think I’m up for it LOL.

Mine are all used at stud so it's just part of the job I collect both entires when we have a bitch in season to prevent frustration

 

[Bellasophia]

Druid,I have learned something new today.
Now I can’t get the phrase out of my head..
Where there’s a Willy there’s a way.!