Vet practices taken over by big business

Dry Rot

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Probably of general interest so posting here rather than in veterinary.

My vets have been taken over by one of the large vet groups and it seems to me that fees for a routine surgical operations have escalated. I could be wrong but as it seems to be impossible to compare prices so I don't really know!

As an animal owner, I have always shopped around because fees do vary and some vets are better at some things than others. As a vet college reject, I am also a bit of a cynic and believe veterinary surgery has become a business (and now big business!), rather than a profession. There are definite advantages to practices cooperating. Bulk buying, better bargaining, shared knowledge, business handled by business people while the surgery is left to the vets, etc.

On the other hand, in remoter areas of the country, we don't usually have a lot of choice. Which means a practice can have a monopoly position. And as Maggie told us, a monopoly is not good for the consumer. So maybe that's why big business has become involved? Selling out to one of the groups rather than trying to find an individual with the necessary capital also has advantages for the retiring vet.

Fortunately, I have several practices within 50 miles (that's what we call "local" around here!). I recently approached four for prices. I won't deal with a fifth for personal reasons. Two have not answered and two say they don't "do" horses any more. So I am stuck with the one practice that is owned big business.

Vets are busy people and I am sure 'my' vets will reply soon, but if you are faced with a similar dilemma, you might find the following of interest:

https://www.rcvs.org.uk/setting-sta...professional-conduct-for-veterinary-surgeons/

9.1 Under EU Directive 2006/123/EC, service providers, which include veterinary surgeons, must give clients relevant information, such as their contact details, the details of their regulator and the details of their insurer. Certain information must be provided on request, such as the price of a service or, if an exact price cannot be given, the method for calculating the price.
 

Goldenstar

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My practice was taken over sometime time ago .
What I see is more better more up to date equipment .
The ability to pay a monthly fee to receive some routine things free at the point of use like flu vaccines and worm counts you also get discounts on procedures and long term drugs they have a similar scheme for dogs as well I take my dogs to another surgery run by the same group
I think prices have risen but so have costs like electricity and running vehicles .
This was always the expensive practise in the area but it’s also the best round here with a 24 hr manned hospital that they can admit a horse to day and night and do surgery under GA.
It costs lots of money to maintain that infrastructure and I accept as a customer I am paying for that .
The things I feared have not happened I still have one vet looking after the overview of my horses health and I think a better system is now in place to manage the whole horse when it’s healthy as well as when it’s injured.
My husband worked his whole working life in big business I understand it well and understand the small good big bad model is a way too simplistic way to look at it .
I am relaxed about being a client of a big client in fact I like it better than the very large partner led group my vets where before they sold out , they where a very very big partner led group .
My worry is that now where will young keen vets get those big pay packets that those who ran big very successful practices got before they sold out .
If partner run practices die out wages for vets will probaly be repressed and that’s not good for the quality of vets in the long term .
As veterinary care gets better and more specialist it’s going to get more and more expensive .
 
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ycbm

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Dry Rot! I was thinking about you and wondering where you were the other day. Welcome back!



I absolutely share your concerns about the megavet practices.
 

Pearlsasinger

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We had a fabulous independent vet who worked with large and small animals and employed younger vets. He retired, sold the practice to a chain and immediately the treatment of horses stopped. We moved to another independent vet, who is a wonderful horseman but absolutely hopeless at running a business but won't allow any-one else to take over that side of the practice.

So we have gone back to large senior partners run practice with several surgeries around the area. The advantages are that you can get an emergency vet out 24/7/365 if you need one and in normal hours you can specify which vet you want to see, although the down-side is that you don't always want to see the vet who is available at your nearest surgery.
This group does have a business manager but getting an accurate bill out of them can be a trial, which was the main reason that we left them years ago to follow the former partner who was the fabulous independent vet!
 

twiggy2

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As a previous employee of a vets who was bought out by a large corporate I have bent over backward to use the only independent vet in my area.
In my experience it took a while but prices quadrupled, some procedures improved, not all, dictatorship became the norm, paperwork (often needless) spiralled out of control, work loads increased and staff moral bucketed.
It's crap, work loads increased, wages did not nor did hrs.
Deadlines to complete online training were given but no time/computers allocated to do them, staff would be called in by the area manager and asked why they were not completed, when advised there was no time or computer allocated to do so staff were told you can do it at home...'nope, not happening in my time/home'
A memo stating how to answer the phone amd what needed to be said, I had been there 14 yrs as had other staff- it's an insult, I pointed out if I had not been answering the phone correctly they had left it a long time to tell me.
Too many people on bonuses and money being chased meant we all became numbers not individuals. Crap crap crap. Things have continued to get worse since I left.
I shall creep of my soap box now before I really get going.
 

Ddraig_wen

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One of our local practices has recently been taken over by a chain. The call out has gone way up. I had a livestock call out bill recently. £3.58 for a jab of painkiller £62 call out. That was within hours and less than 15 minutes from the practice.
There's only 2 practices locally which now gives people the choice of expensive with a 50/50 chance on getting a good vet out or expensive with a chance of getting a bad vet a patronising vet or a good vet. I know a few people who're grouping together to get visits from vets who are out of county. Even without a group visit its now cheaper to call a vet from an hour away in another county than one 10 minutes away.
 

cobgoblin

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Our horse vet is still independent and provides 24hr call out.. He toyed with the idea of being taken over some years ago but the reaction from his clients put him off.

Just about all the small animals vets around here have been taken over though and the prices for treatment have shot through the roof. The result seems to be that people are not replacing their pets.

I live on the edge of a large common. Years ago, there would be a constant stream of dog walkers passing my house every day... Now I rarely see a dog go past, sometimes for weeks at a time.
 

dogatemysalad

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I would always choose a small independent practice that has a good long term, local reputation. The problem with big companies is staff turnover. They tend to attract newly qualified vets who stay for a couple of years and then move on. In a small practice, the senior partners have invested in the business and stay there long term. Junior staff may move on, but they are mentored by the seniors directly rather than a company policy remotely implemented by a manager who has little local knowledge.
It's also why I avoid big companies who run opticians, dentists and small animal vets.
 

MotherOfChickens

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I agree with GS, I know a few vets who have locumed for chain vets and they tell me that treatment protocols and pricing are much clearer than some smaller practices. There's no doubt that these corporate practices and the amount of vets we are churning out have and will depress wages for an expensive profession to qualify in.

I am registered at two practices, one was already expensive and has just been bought out. The other is a true rural mixed practice committed to keeping prices reasonable and tell me that they will never sell out or outsource their OOHs service. This pratcice has its limitations wrt treatment etc but we have three hospitals nearby. But they struggle to keep staff as young vets want to do more and so they move on after a year or so. I love that practice,they are brilliant but the partners are not that long off retiring.
 

gunnergundog

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There is now not a single independent small animal vet in my area.

The major downside that I see is that NONE of them do their own out-of-hours emergency work. Now if I have an issue out of hours I have to drive at least 30 mins (assuming all roads clear of traffic works, traffic lights all on my side and no congestion). This journey took 55 mins on one memorable Saturday afternoon - that could make the difference between life or death in certain situations.

PS Nice to see you back Dry Rot
 

paddy555

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I had been with my vet for 40 years when they were taken over by a large company. First thing that happened was reorganisation and the only decent horse vet was not able to do horses any longer only small animals. After a year we got a letter that they were no longer going to do horses anyway only farm animals and small pets. There are constant adverts on their web site advertising for vets. They don't seem able to get staff or to retain them.

Luckily one of the original partners who didn't go along with the take over had voted with his feet and moved to an independent practice. He suggested I move as well. I went from very upset at having to change practice after so long to total disbelief as to how good this independent practice is. I have needed vets for 3 emergencies one of which was terrible PTS colic. They sent horse vets who very much knew what they were doing. Some of these have been out of hours and yet the vets were still dispatched immediately. Their charges have been very reasonable although I would happily have paid more for their wonderful service. They have the equipment and a choice of at least 5 horse vets that I am confident with.
The large company take over was the best thing that ever happened at my previous vets as I ended up with a great independent practice.

Where have you been Dry Rot? nice to see you back.
 

irishdraft

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Both the big equine practices near me have been bought out including the one I use. I only know my vets had been bought out because I know the wife of one of the partners they still haven't revealed this publically . One of the vets left and started his own independent practice equine only and today I saw he was aadvertising for a fourth vet .
 

MotherOfChickens

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One of the up and coming equine vet practices in the Central Belt are mobile vets-2 of them used to work at the Dick Vet. They have built up a great reputation-there was/is another mobile equine vets down in the Borders as well although they also had a small animal practice. If you have hospitals near by for referrals then it might be the way of the future.
 

ester

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Yes I'm aware of a few more mobile outfits than they used to.

Our most local vet got bought out, this meant I might actually use them if I needed to whereas it would have been a definite no proviously. Especially as it is within hackable distance and we have no transport, and they have a better xray machine than my own vets mobile one.
 

TPO

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One of the up and coming equine vet practices in the Central Belt are mobile vets-2 of them used to work at the Dick Vet. They have built up a great reputation-there was/is another mobile equine vets down in the Borders as well although they also had a small animal practice. If you have hospitals near by for referrals then it might be the way of the future.

I'm with this practice and they are excellent.

Most of the local small animal practices have been bought out by "megavet" companies. I know the married couple who set up one of the practices and built the first purpose built small animal vet centres in the area. 23/5yrs later they have sold out to a mega company and are now enjoying a very comfortable early retirement that they deserve. However I dont know the ins and outs for those working for the big companies. I guess there would be positive like having proper procedures (sick, HR, salary, holidays, working hours etc) than working for a smaller "one man band" type scenario?

It always used to be the thing that you worked your way up ad a vet and could finally see a decent salary once you became a partner but I'm guessing being made a partner will be a thing of the past if the practices are owned by corporations?

There have been a couple of mergers to form bigger equine practices in my area and that seems to be the way things are going. Going on hearsay one practice in particular seems to have increased their prices consoderably when they built their clinic. A lot of people also said they were being referred for a stay/into the clinic for things that would normally have been done on the yard with an increased bill to match. I do not rate that practice at all as they were dishonest so haven't looked at anything they do but that aside everyone that I know that was with them has left and most went to the practice that MOC mentioned.
 
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MotherOfChickens

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There have been a couple of mergers to form bigger equine practices in my area and that seems to be the way things are going. Going on hearsay one practice in particular seems to have increased their prices consoderably when they built their clinic. A lot of people also said they were being referred for a stay/into the clinic for things that would normally have been done on the yard with an increased bill to match.

Clyde are now part of VetPartners.

as for referrals for stuff that can be done on a yard-the vet hospitals (uni ones) have been guilty of that up here. The trouble with that is they aren't then teaching their students how to do such thing in the field and you end up with years of vets that can't seemingly cope outside of the hospital. And it means that even though a teaching practice, they are only teaching jags and teeth. I know that some students complained about this so I am not sure if its improved in the last 6/7 years since I was in contact with vets or vet lecturers at the vet school.

Dick Vet wanted my Exmoor for a 3 day hospital stay for a knock down castration. I am an ex VN, I have nursed more standing castrations than they all had put together (and so know the risks) had an all mod cons yard at that point and was quite happy to take my chances-which I made clear to them. Eventually (a vet we both know well) agreed to do it and said at one point, he'd done 15 of these in the field in one weekend.

It shouldn't be a problem for x-rays, scans and the like to be done at owners yard (provided they have a suitable area in which to do it). Too often ime equine vets just can't crack on-which is why I like my mixed practice so much these days. The Exmoor had a minor eyelid injury a few years back, it eventually cost me £500 with another practice only for it to heal completely fine by itself as their stitching broke down (I hadnt wanted the stitching, it was literally something a steristrip would have sorted- he did need a'biotics and pain relief)
 
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TPO

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Clyde are now part of VetPartners

Ooo I didnt know that. I went to their clinic when I was with the "bad practice" for a scoping and they were all lovely and very professional. They expanded and have a mobile branch based out of Stirling market the past few years and someone I know switched to them from the "bad practice" and seems happy with the service. I thought being one of the bigger practices they might have been safe from.the corporate machine, so to speak
 

Kaylum

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Vets dont get me started. They arent regulated over pricing. This is why the animal welfare situation is in such a state. They should have a displayed price list on their website for routine visits and the cost of a consultation.

People dare not take their animals into the vets as they are scared of the costs. Those on lower incomes that dont qualify for benefits and many dont have insurance just dare not go to one and their animals suffer.

Some to give them credit have tried to make treatment more affordable offering life time vaccinations for a one off price etc.

Even if you get the prescription online the cost of seeing the vet is still a lot.
 

MotherOfChickens

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Ooo I didnt know that. I went to their clinic when I was with the "bad practice" for a scoping and they were all lovely and very professional. They expanded and have a mobile branch based out of Stirling market the past few years and someone I know switched to them from the "bad practice" and seems happy with the service. I thought being one of the bigger practices they might have been safe from.the corporate machine, so to speak

Its very recent, the horse lot are all lovely. I've not taken any of the smalls there after it cost nearly £200 to get kitten jags and ear ice treatment. My other vets are much cheaper but don't have all the toys.
 
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MotherOfChickens

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People dare not take their animals into the vets as they are scared of the costs. Those on lower incomes that dont qualify for benefits and many dont have insurance just dare not go to one and their animals suffer.
.

tbf that isn't the vets' problem. If you can't afford treatment then get insurance, if you can't afford insurance then don't have the animal. I agree some vets are more expensive and before the advent of corporate practices the customer could shop about somewhat. The animal welfare situation is not the fault of vets, its the fault of people who think having animals is some kind of right.
 

cobgoblin

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What are the vets going to do when they get to the point where they've outpriced a critical proportion of their customers?
Insurance is only available up to a certain age for animals of all sorts.

As I said above, around here it is noticeable that people are not replacing their pets... and my own vet confirmed this.

When profits drop the big companies will dump the market.
 

Kaylum

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Vets have a very important role to play in animal welfare but therefore so do the insurance companies. As said insurance wont cover some animals. They need regulating properly. I agree you should have an animal if you cant afford the fees but the insurance and vets fees are getting out of control.

When my friend took her Guinea pig to the vets for eye drops £56 for 5 minutes and you need the medication there and then.

How many people have insurance for a Guinea pig who is a much loved pet.
 

MotherOfChickens

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What are the vets going to do when they get to the point where they've outpriced a critical proportion of their customers?
Insurance is only available up to a certain age for animals of all sorts.

As I said above, around here it is noticeable that people are not replacing their pets... and my own vet confirmed this.

When profits drop the big companies will dump the market.


I expect there will be a levelling out eventually, the same with universities who see the vet degree as a cash cow-at some point the course won't be worth the fees if vets can't earn more than £35k pa.

People are still buying dogs in droves and have the money to spend + £1k on a dog guaranteed to be in the vets for the first 2 years (e.g. French Bulldogs) and I don't see why vets should do it for nothing. Again, its not the vets fault but they will be looking to maximise profits. As will healthcare when the UK goes down that route. I am not saying the industry is right or perfect, I am saying people should take personal responsibility and if they can't afford it, don't have it.

For my part I find my dogs relatively expensive -their insurance alone is twice as much as that of my ponies. I wouldn't choose to have a third dog due to cost but I am not about to blame vets for it.
 

cobgoblin

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I expect there will be a levelling out eventually, the same with universities who see the vet degree as a cash cow-at some point the course won't be worth the fees if vets can't earn more than £35k pa.

People are still buying dogs in droves and have the money to spend + £1k on a dog guaranteed to be in the vets for the first 2 years (e.g. French Bulldogs) and I don't see why vets should do it for nothing. Again, its not the vets fault but they will be looking to maximise profits. As will healthcare when the UK goes down that route. I am not saying the industry is right or perfect, I am saying people should take personal responsibility and if they can't afford it, don't have it.

For my part I find my dogs relatively expensive -their insurance alone is twice as much as that of my ponies. I wouldn't choose to have a third dog due to cost but I am not about to blame vets for it.


I think you've missed my point.
Big business has made it easy for vets by taking over.. Far easier to be a salaried vet in a well equipped practice than to work your way up. At the moment the ones making money are those that sell out and the business that buys them out... But eventually all the practices (or as near as dammit) will be bought up. At that point they have a monopoly and can push prices up even more. When the bubble pops... How many salaried vets will be able to afford to start up a practice?

It is not a question of blaming the vets themselves.... They will probably be the ones that suffer the most when the company decides to realise its assets and push off.
 

MotherOfChickens

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I think you've missed my point.
Big business has made it easy for vets by taking over.. Far easier to be a salaried vet in a well equipped practice than to work your way up. At the moment the ones making money are those that sell out and the business that buys them out... But eventually all the practices (or as near as dammit) will be bought up. At that point they have a monopoly and can push prices up even more. When the bubble pops... How many salaried vets will be able to afford to start up a practice?

It is not a question of blaming the vets themselves.... They will probably be the ones that suffer the most when the company decides to realise its assets and push off.

I think we are at cross purposes? I agree re the corporate practices, I am not pro them and think its a shame the law changed-vets that work in them have told me of certain advantages so I am relaying that POV.

I was referring to not blaming vets for an animal that someone can't afford to treat-in a way it doesn't matter what is causing it to be too expensive just that it is too expensive. And if vet practices then take a hit things will change because they have to.
 
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Bayracer

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I work and the only truly independent practice for 30 miles, we find that lots of people of drawn into the fancy offers, promotions and gadgets that cooperates practices are promoting but soon come back or move when they get down to prices and experience. From experience corporate practices are very good at offering discounted prices for routine stuff like vaccines, dentals (neutering for small animals) but sting people big time for the things people don’t shop around for such as tumour removals, complex short term medications and emergencies.
I would strongly encourage anyone to use a independent as they will have a better values and a personal feel. (Obviously there are exceptions) also the money goes into the company and benefits local wages rather than some fancy ceo in a big office.
 

Stiff Knees

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Our local vet practice (of TV fame) has quite recently been taken over by Medivet, a shock to everyone I think, but 2 of the 3 partners have stayed on, the other left, many of the original vets gave stayed on, the service continues to be of an excellent standard and in many ways has improved, the facilities are improving, staffing levels have improved, the opening hours are more user friendly and they are genuinely open 24 hours a day. A month ago When Jake needed emergency surgery at 4am for a ruptured splenic tumour, he was treated by a dedicated night Vet who was fresh on shift with the support of a Vet Nurse also rota'd to work the night shift. Within 10 minutes of me getting him there he'd had blood tests and an ultrasound and was in surgery within 25 minutes. Under the old regime, Jake would likely have been treated by a Vet who had been out lambing all night, with a Vet Nurse dragged from her bed to assist, I have no doubt that had there been any delay he would have died but he didn't and I can only praise them for the care he received. He was surrounded by Vet Nurses and was treated like royalty, I made an impromptu visit the evening after his surgery and improved staffing levels meant he had a nurse sat in his cage with him, just holding his paw and fondling his ears, I was not concerned to leave him overnight because the practice is staffed 24 hours a day so patients are very well attended to overnight. I've only had positive experiences but perhaps have just been lucky with the ethics of the remaining partners still very much in evidence at this practice.
 
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