Vet requesting payment in advance?!

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Had a vet appt for my horse today, been with same vets for 6 years including several uninsured hospital admissions costing thousands- never been late to settle account ( few days to a week max).

The last few years vets have been calling a few days in advance to request payment. I don’t mind that in principle although on occasion they have then gone onto rearrange the appt meaning I am paying week + in advance.

Anyhow in way to yard this morning battling ice and school run the phone goes, couldn’t answer as was driving. Got to yard, vet arrived and said office have been trying to get hold of you for payment!!! She got a card reader out to take payment ( all in front of yard owner!) however I did not have my purse so could not pay. Have called into office and paid now.

Is this now a usual and normal thing? I am feeling a bit upset, it was embarrassing this morning to be honest and I felt like I have been labelled as a ‘bad payer’ ( I am categorically not!!!)
 
I think this is one of the more horrible changes that happen when smaller / independent practices are taken over but the larger PE backed groups.

It happened to me last year - really horrible experience

Been a client for 10 years, never quibbled a bill, always paid in days, spend god knows how much on multiple horses, dogs, they visit all the time so know where I live etc. etc.

I had an uninsured youngster booked in for lameness work up - they wanted consent (over the phone) to spend at will " it could be £5k plus". I said absolutely not. I told them to spend £1k then get the vet to phone me and tell me what next steps should be - before I agree to spend any more.

When we arrived they wouldn't open the gate and came running out into the car park shouting that "I'd refused to pay" so I couldn't enter the premises !

I had to go in and pay £1k before they opened the gate to let him in !!
 
asmp said:
Not something I’ve ever had to do. Was it a routine appointment for an injection,etc? Otherwise how would they know exactly what to charge?
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Exactly, last few times i sometimes but not always get a ‘quote’ ( we are talking routine stuff here, like yearly vaccs or minor treatments) but invariably its not exactly correct so I end up paying one invoice in advance and another ‘adjustment’ after!
 
TheMule said:
If you saw their accounts you would understand why. Sadly, the small minority ruin things for the majority and when you are owed tens of thousands in unpaid invoices, you have to start changing how you operate
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I do have sympathy as I have been a business owner in the past and have lost a lot of money when customers fail to pay or on occasion gone into liquidation, but I don’t think its the bestcappruto ‘target’ the good customers!!
 
I'd be annoyed if either of the 2 incidents above happened to me but I can see why this is happening now. My vets give a discount if you pay within 24 hours so the onus is on you to call in time with your card details or wait for the bill in full. I've saved £1000's by being a prompt payer in the many years I've been with the practice.

The problem is, there are now so many people who feel entitled and don't want to pay for things. They get a horse, don't want to pay for insurance then, when a large vet bill is incoming they start a beg-on-line. If this doesn't raise enough they resort to slagging off the vets for not providing them with free treatment. Vet practices like all other businesses can't survive too many none payers and one way or another it is the good clients who finish up with at least part of the cost.

I had more than I could stomach of none payers when I was a landlord.
 
I registered at a new practice yesterday as we've moved areas, I had to pay a £100 deposit to be held on account...I had to pay it before they would come out and do vaccinations...

I can see it from their end too but it is frustrating. All fees have to be paid by the owner too, they do not accept direct payments from insurance companies which is a shame as for some people, they simply don't have thousands in the bank in the case of colic etc..

Sign of the times I suppose!
 
I think vets put up with all sorts of things. My vet practice is excellent and they sent an email out to all clients asking us to not abuse the staff. I am shocked they had to send such an email. I think for them to do this it shows that abuse is not a one off. Ideally people would pay for services and not abuse staff. But this is obviously not always the case.
 
I still get an invoice from my vets (but first ever visit I had to pay a 1.5k deposit- lameness workup) but I pay all the other ‘services’ on the day so not sure it’s outrageous, just a change. Maybe I could ask the farrier, saddler, dentist, back lady to just send an invoice but I prefer to have it wrapped up there and then and I’m sure their admin time does too.
 
I don't mind paying in advance at all

I mind being shouted at across a busy car park and again in a filled reception area and generally treated like a criminal because I refused to sign a blank cheque for an investigation.

There are 25 ways in which it could have been handled better by the staff - I am sure there are a painful minority who ruin things for the rest. But a 30 second glance at my account on screen would have shown that I'm not in the minority and a subtle request for payment after he'd been unloaded (before they did anything) would have been fine for everyone.

When I came to collect him the practice manager came out and apologized
 
Mine tried this during Covid, I've been a customer for years and never a bad payer. I refused unless for routine vaccinations which are easily costed. Leaving me to chase them for an outstanding amount since they will undoubtedly overprice the visit "to be on the safe side" is deeply unethical in my opinion. They are a small business and it's a risk all small businesses run, I don't expect a plumber to send me a bill before any work is done though I would pay for costed materials up front.
 
I have worked for corporate and independent practices. Both have done this. This is not a purely corporate thing (to be honest cash flow matters much more for the little guys!).

We have been taking payment in advance for vaccines for roughly 10 years now. We charge the same for both flu and flu/tet, so it doesn't matter which you have. After an audit of our bills which took longest for payment surprisingly the longest payment intervals were for routine work (vaccs, dentals, castrations, vettings) so we get all of these paid up front. It actually surprised me as I was expecting the colics, wounds and lamenesses to be worst. New clients would be asked to pay up front for everything for the first visit. This has been the same for 3 different practices I have worked for and several others I have knowledge of.
We were regularly waiting 6 weeks for payment for vaccs, and there are huge associated admin and time costs. The idea of having a naughty/nice list for people who do/don't need to pay in advance is very impractical. And there are a fair proportion who cry 'but I always pay immediately' who really don't!

The only exceptions would be commercial clients eg racing yards or studs as often the people you are dealing with day to day have no access to the financials. Plus they tend to operate on a monthly invojce basis for everything.
 
Gamebird said:
The only exceptions would be commercial clients eg racing yards or studs as often the people you are dealing with day to day have no access to the financials. Plus they tend to operate on a monthly invojce basis for everything.
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That's something that could also apply on a livery yard where the ym often attends vet visits especially emergencies where the owner isn't always contactable.

The only thing I can think of with the practice I use that has consistent cost is a pre purchase vetting.

They have a very complicated price structure and eye watering costs for consumables. Those of us in the know have our own stock of things like vet wrap. Sedation is charged by ml used so will also change.

Even the call out depends on how many horses, so if 2 of you share a visit then the call out is split 50/50. If another person gets added last minute then you pay a third.

They have taken credit card details before when there's an expensive hospital visit or workup and given an estimate. But it's more a just in case as I've never had them take anything off it but give me an invoice at the end.
 
I was surprised when my vet practice did this, I can understand for vaccs etc. However, on the last call out, as the cost was unknown, I had to pay £450 in advance and wait up to two weeks for the refund. I feel this is a huge expectation for someone to suddenly have available, plus wait to get the money back!
 
We've been charging procedures in advance for some time. (Small animal practice). Some clients have kicked off (been with us for years, always paid on time, yada yada) and give us a really hard time on reception, which still happens now and again. We have reduced our debt levels by tens of thousands by doing it though, and we really can't make exceptions for some people, because that opens us up to accusations of favouritism. Vet teams are cut to the bone and that includes admin staff. It takes a lot of time and money to chase debt, never mind when it's regularly not paid. Refusing to pay or being difficult about it is really not helpful to anyone. We get enough hate chucked at us as it is.
 
criso said:
That's something that could also apply on a livery yard where the ym often attends vet visits especially emergencies where the owner isn't always contactable.

The only thing I can think of with the practice I use that has consistent cost is a pre purchase vetting.

They have a very complicated price structure and eye watering costs for consumables. Those of us in the know have our own stock of things like vet wrap. Sedation is charged by ml used so will also change.

Even the call out depends on how many horses, so if 2 of you share a visit then the call out is split 50/50. If another person gets added last minute then you pay a third.

They have taken credit card details before when there's an expensive hospital visit or workup and given an estimate. But it's more a just in case as I've never had them take anything off it but give me an invoice at the end.
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The livery yard point isn't an issue for us as a) we don't require payment up front for emergencies for already registered clients and b) we definitely wouldn't be running up big bills without discussion with an owner. For routine livery yard visits where the owner isn't present they pay in advance, same as if they were present.

I think simplifying your pricing structure definitely helps in this respect. So for example we would charge a set fee for dentistry with sedation, regardless of how many mls of the actual drug are used. And to be honest people much prefer, when they ring up for a price, to know the exact price rather than 'it'll be x plus sedation, but we don't know how much the sedation will be until the vet has been'.
 
The vets I use are a family run practice, they have a sign in their receptions saying all small animal treatments have to be paid on the day. I have what they class as a 'farm' account and get invoiced monthly due to having 13 horses, 2 dogs and several cats, so next week I have one horse for vaccination, 6 horses for teeth, both dogs for vaccination and a couple of cats if I can catch them!
 
Gamebird said:
The livery yard point isn't an issue for us as a) we don't require payment up front for emergencies for already registered clients and b) we definitely wouldn't be running up big bills without discussion with an owner. For routine livery yard visits where the owner isn't present they pay in advance, same as if they were present.

I think simplifying your pricing structure definitely helps in this respect. So for example we would charge a set fee for dentistry with sedation, regardless of how many mls of the actual drug are used. And to be honest people much prefer, when they ring up for a price, to know the exact price rather than 'it'll be x plus sedation, but we don't know how much the sedation will be until the vet has been'.
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Yes - big teaching hospital and associated ambulatory practice - very complicated structure. We have exam, reexam and brief exam all with different prices.

They have made a decision at some point to completely separate things they do into a detailed list and add everything consumable and drug separately.

For an operation under GA, every single item was listed.

Those in the know have a stock of consumables because we don't want to pay their prices so wouldn't want an all in price.

Someone asked on here about costs for a colic call out, theirs wasn't itemised. I had similar but broken down into call out, exam, rectal exam and drugs. It was still half the price of the other person's bill so I'm not complaining and actually it's good to see exactly where the costs were incurred.
 
criso said:
Yes - big teaching hospital and associated ambulatory practice - very complicated structure. We have exam, reexam and brief exam all with different prices.

They have made a decision at some point to completely separate things they do into a detailed list and add everything consumable and drug separately.

For an operation under GA, every single item was listed.

Those in the know have a stock of consumables because we don't want to pay their prices so wouldn't want an all in price.

Someone asked on here about costs for a colic call out, theirs wasn't itemised. I had similar but broken down into call out, exam, rectal exam and drugs. It was still half the price of the other person's bill so I'm not complaining and actually it's good to see exactly where the costs were incurred.
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Completely itemised bills are an RCVS recommendation for complete transparency of pricing, and part of the PSS scheme, so realistically all practices should be doing this.

I think you misunderstand me re the 'in advance' pricing structure. It is for routine procedures so not things where you might be able to provide your own consumables. Vaccines, dentistry, routine bloods (eg PPID/EMS monitoring), castration, vettings. Every other sort of visit would be billed.

On a busy day of routines I might see 20 or 30 horses for 15 or so owners. So if you imagine that every one of those owners gets an invoice which they might take between 24hrs and 6 months to pay, times 4 vets in the practice - that is a massive amount of invoices, reminders, further reminders, phone calls and (a small amount of) eventually written off revenue. All of which is completely removed if payment is made at the time of booking. And given that these are all routine totally predictable yearly (vaccs/dentals) or one off (vettings/castrations) costs I don't think it is completely unreasonable that people don't ask us to do them if they don't have the money right now. And yet if you invoice the work they will find every excuse to not pay this month/next month/the month after.
 
Gamebird said:
I think you misunderstand me re the 'in advance' pricing structure. It is for routine procedures so not things where you might be able to provide your own consumables. Vaccines, dentistry, routine bloods (eg PPID/EMS monitoring), castration, vettings. Every other sort of visit would be billed
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I was thinking about those as well.

The callout fee will vary depending on how many so someone wanting bloods will liaise with someone having a lameness work to save money. Then someone else does the while you're here ...

I suppose because our vets has a reasonably expensive flat rate call out, it changes behaviour of how people use the service. For a vaccination ir could be almost twice the cost of the jab.

The only time that doesn't really happen is vettings as realistically as usually it's a different yard though I did once have a seller ask a vet doing a vetting for me to vaccinate another horse while they were there. Even then you have 2:and 5 stage and I know of vets booked for 5 but then not charged the full amount if they've failed a horse when it was lame at first trot up.
 
One of my local practices (who I don't use anymore) operate a pre-payment before arrivals until you've held the amount for a certain period of time, after which they ring you to offer a 30 day credit account.
Another practice (that I use for the hospital god forbid it's required) usually require payment within 7 days, unless you're going through insurance then it's 30 I believe.
I now use an incredible independent vet, that automatically gives you 30 days and is happy to exceed that if you ask (for example if you're going back and forth with insurance). Weirdly enough I've been told they have less 'credit control' to do because they're flexible and have a relationship with their customers.


I haven't read all the responses yet, but I would be happy to provide my card details on a limited pre-authorization basis for routine treatments + booked appointments. This could potentially be difficult for emergencies, especially if I don't have my card with me or I'm also injured, unless the practice held the card details (not sure what GDPR complications there would be for this) and a waiver/pre-auth form could be signed at the emergency visit.

Equally, I also wouldn't appreciate anyone taking their frustrations out on me, from vet nurses to receptionists, to any other professional really.
 
I had a visit recently for sedation for clipping. The invoice was in my inbox within 3 hours of the visit. This is a non-chain equine vet practice.

As it was on the last day of the month and a friday I waited until it was the next calendar month and I knew that my income was in my account. I paid the following monday morning by debit card - which was as soon as I was certain I had the funds. The administrator was very pleased that I'd paid so promptly due to debt from other customers as reported in many posts above.

My old practice that closed down a couple of years ago had a 30 day payment term for equine invoices but you had to pay on the day for cat/dog/small animal work. The only time I didn't pay for my dog treatment immediately was the day I had to have my dog PTS. I just couldn't face going back into the waiting room clutching his lead in tears. I did say to the vet that I'd come back in a couple of days to pay when I felt up to it.

This new equine practice has 10 day payment terms from receipt of invoice but I won't be surprised if it soon joins the many that now demand payment in advance.

I did have a credit card which would cover emergency stuff (and still do) but due to other unforeseen expenses it is getting towards it's limit so I try not to use it. Pony only insured for accidental injury due to her age (19) and the fact that she's a WHW loan pony so not mine.
 
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