Vet requesting payment in advance?!

periwinkle china said:
What happens when you have over paid? Will they refund the amount?
Click to expand...
We refund same day, however the scenario rarely comes up. The main reasons I can think of are 1)vaccination not carried out as it's say a 2nd or 3rd vacc which the client has booked in to be done too early - check passport, sorry that's too early, you need to make another appointment in a couple of weeks, money either refunded or (more often) kept on account for when the vaccine is actually done; 2) castration not carried out as when the vet turns up there is only one testicle down - payment would be refunded less the cost of visit and sedation (if it is required to check testicles); 3) 5 stage vetting which 'fails' in the first two stages - we would normally refund the difference between a 5 and 2 stage vetting in this scenario. All of those would be refunded same day.

As we are only taking payment in advance for routine visits we almost always know the exact amount, and if we weren't sure if for example sedation would be required we would take payment without then bill it after the appointment if it was required. So it's more usual for us that people have underpaid in advance, rather than overpaid.
 
I just wanted to come back to the thread and thank everyone for the responses.

What I’m taking from the responses is that actually payment up front is now becoming the norm. This is fine its just a shame in my case there wasn’t any communication about the change of policy, which caused both myself and the vet some embarrassment.

I had a little look last night and from what I can see the practice was quietly taken over by a big chain about two years ago ( absolutely nothing on their website about this I had to look on companies house!) so it makes more sense now.
 
I accidentally overpaid once, and I never managed to get it refunded but held on account for next visit which was some months later. It wasn't a large amount though.

Like someone above said my vets write up their visits when they get back (though they use laptop rather than notebooks) however some are better than others. They used to send out bills at the start of the month but that probably caused cashflow issues so now send them out anything from a few days after to a few weeks. Then there's 14 days to pay with the threat of interest if late.

The client I'm working with at the moment has 60 days payment terms not negotiable and sits on an invoice till almost 60 days before paying me so 14 days doesn't strike me as generous.
 
Bonnie Allie said:
Paying up front is fine with me. Called a plumber out lately? The first thing you are told is the call out fee and you have to pay over the phone just to get them there. Then all work delivered is paid onsite at completion of the job. Out comes the tap tap machine (or cash of course for plumbers!)

Despite being medivacced to my home country in a pretty serious state post a ski-ing accident both surgeon and anaesthetist needing paying upfront before we went into surgery. It was my job to sort it with health fund post surgery.

With vets however, if we are doing everything right as a client - paying upfront, showing respect and kindness, I expect you to turn up on time, everytime with the knowledge, skills, communication, appropriate support to do your best work.

If I’m waiting for you and have to call the practice and speak to your vile receptionist, then move all my work calls because the practice couldn’t let me know you were running late I’m not going to present as my best self.

Vets practices need to up their game in business professionalism and the angst they get from clients will reduce considerably. We respect the technical skill but the practice management and support crew is where it falls apart and the vet gets the stick for it.

As a client be as professional as you expect the vet to be with you.

I wouldn’t dare treat my plumber badly………..or consider that I didn’t have to pay upfront or be ready with an envelope of cash or my card. And I love my vet more than I love my plumber………….
Click to expand...
The small animal practices I use the receptionists are very professional, the large one seems to be populated by people that seem to think it's just a hobby, they do badly and unless you email the vet directly the message gets lost. The reason why I still use them is the vets are experienced and easy to talk to. Like doctors surgeries it all depends on the practice manager, and how good they are at requiring and training staff, the large animal practice they do not have a practice manager and I think that's most of the problem, there is no proper system of communication.
 
As a former equine vet, I can tell you that you would be horrified at the amount of bad debt a typical practice has. I’ve even had clients do direct claims from their insurers and then keep the money and never pay the bill! One of the many reasons I left practice.

I don’t understand why some horse owners think they are a special case. If you went for a private operation / consultation in human medicine you’d be paying upfront, or need pre-authorisation from your insurance.

However, the practice should have let you know you would need to pay on the day so that you were prepared with your purse etc. I know a lot of equine vets carry card readers now, but in some rural areas that doesn’t work because of poor signal, hence the need for a pre-visit phone call sometimes.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
That wouldn't be OOH here. So long as they are taking booked apps for small animals I the surgery, equine/farm charging is considered within normal hours, so up to 7.00 pm
Click to expand...
Equine vets hours are 8.30am to 5pm tho the last call might well be a tad later, OOH is charged outside those hours.
 
I've had a mix. I'm in an area with poor signal and the vets know that but I'm also a good payer so assume that makes it easier for them to bill me retrospectively

When I had the horses and cats with the same practice they'd often send me an invoice for the cats rather than paying there and then but the minute the horses moved the small animal practice took immediate payment - they'd also sold to a corporate so no doubt that helped change the process.

I'm a career finance bod so personally I'd be all for up front charging if it was my business! But it does need to be clearly communicated
 
  • Like
Reactions: tda
GaryTheDonkey said:
I don’t understand why some horse owners think they are a special case. If you went for a private operation / consultation in human medicine you’d be paying upfront, or need pre-authorisation from your insurance.
Click to expand...
See this shows the variability because every private consultation I have had has been invoiced after the appointment.
 
Landcruiser said:
Woah! That "vile" receptionist is on minimum wage. She may not KNOW the vet is running late. The vet may not be in a position to call in. You have absolutely no idea of the stresses and difficulties involved in keeping to schedule in any medical setting. Some things take much longer than expected, some animals are much sicker than the owner thought, some owners need more support/explanation/TIME than others. It's just the way it is and we (speaking as an extremely experienced, professional vet receptionist, and yes, I'm still on minimum wage after over a decade), WE do our very best but sometimes it's fire fighting and sometimes we've had a really bad day and dealt with distraught owners or people angry at having to pay or having to wait, or we just don't know what's going on because nobody has had time to tell us, or just maybe we have our own issues and difficulties to deal with.
You having to "move your work calls" because someone else's animal needs emergency care and then complaining about it is not a good look, The vet isn't late on purpose, there will be a very valid reason, and one day it might be your horse that's holding everyone up. Blaming the reception staff (or indeed the vets) for your vet not "turning up on time, every time." That vet might have just euthanised a child's best friend or told an owner that their beloved horse has a life limiting condition, or attended an RTA. You have no idea.

Edited to add...it's a well known phenomenon that some of the clients who love their favourite vet and are all sweetness and light to them, hanging off their every word, are the most vile to us receptionists. Be aware though - the vets and the receptionists share intel. Your vet will be aware.
Click to expand...

Gamebird said:
I largely agree with you, although I do think in a lot of cases communication could be improved. This is largely vets at fault, not office staff who probably only see the vets once a day or so, and are juggling the locations of several vets out on the road, many of whom are probably not where the office think they are! (I know you get this, but explaining for the benefit of others).

I do think vets could probably communicate better. Even if you're with a client, it's rarely impossible to ring or message the office and say 'this is taking a lot longer than expected - please could you contact my next couple of clients and let them know I'll be X minutes late, but that may change'.

The things that have made me late this week are rarely dramatic. I struggle to get out on the road on time in the mornings at the moment.
The reasons for this are:
  • If you've been on call, early morning calls (happen very frequently when people check their horses before they go to work), so for example the 6.30am colic which runs into the working day
  • If you've not been on call but another vet has had an early morning call which means that you need to take over their in-patient checks and meds before you go out
  • 'Could you just ring Mrs X before you leave'
  • Having to re-stock car kit/drugs after a late finish the previous day when you didn't get back to the clinic, or after emergencies
Then once on the road for the day the most common things which make me late are:
  • People who can't catch their horses, or haven't got them in ready so you wait whilst they trek to the furthest field for them. I have 2 or 3 of these every day. And every time the horse is supposedly good to catch and has 'never been a problem before'. I do generally believe this, but horses are horses and know fine well when you are trying to catch them out of their normal routine, or hen the vet is on the premises. Even the best horse can become uncatchable in these circumstances. This is definitely my biggest regular cause of lost time though
  • Horses which are difficult to handle or difficult with vets - these need time and patience, but it all adds unexpected time to appointments
  • 'Could you just....' - these are really difficult! As several people have said on this thread they expect great customer service, and saying 'no, you need to make another appointment for that' doesn't give a great impression, although it is what we are supposed to do in these scenarios. So I generally say yes, or have a quick look, but it all adds time onto the day
  • There are an almost unbelievable number of rural road closures for roadworks, most with no notice, and where we are these often necessitate really long detours to get to somewhere you can virtually see from where the closure is.
  • ANd sometimes things are a lot more complicated than expected and sometimes for example an appointment listed as 'quick check of melanoma' turns into a really long discussion about quality of life, and talking the client through euthanasia and timeframes and options, and you just can't say 'sorry, you've had your 10 minutes, I have to go to the next one'.
  • Calls that come in through the day that need to be seen same day. I can't remember the last time my diary of appointment stayed the same throughout the day. It almost always is flexible with extra people needing to be fitted in, calls moved between vets etc etc. I would regularly start the day with a 'full' schedule and end the day having fitted 4 more same-day appointments in.
I would also add to Landcruiser's post that recruitment is a MAJOR issue. I haven't worked in a practice that was fully staffed with vets for 9 or 10 years. We are currently trying to run a 5 vet practice with 3 vets, and when you take holidays etc into account that means most days there are only 2 vets in. We advertise and advertise, but experienced equine vets are like gold dust. And although we would love to have a new grad to train, as you can probably tell, we just don't have the time to train them. So although we start each day with appointment scheduled from 8.30-5, we rarely finish these appointments (for the reasons above) before 6 or 7, then get finished writing them up before 8. To be honest I can see why vets are leaving the profession, but every one that leaves just leaves more work for those of us who are left!

Apologies for the essay. I would dearly love to be bang on time for every client. I genuinely do my best. I thought it might help though if I explained where the lateness comes from! And I do think that vets could communicate better. But it is rarely, if ever, the fault of the office staff, so please try not to take your frustrations out on them!
Click to expand...
Couldn't agree more with the above.

I don't think people quite understood until you've worked in the industry.

It's sad that when I have a genuinely nice client I'm surprised as most aren't 🙃.

Also I've been shouted at by a client as apparently they hadn't heard from us with an ETA. They'd said mobile had died so to call landline which I had done several times, but they were out with the horse, it's not our fault if we aren't give correct numbers or because clients haven't charged their phones.

Also it's not as easy as a vet calling/messaging to say they'll be running late due to the country side not having great signal.
Receptionist are after all only human.

I've also called clients to say vet running late dueto a thrashing colic and been given mouthfuls of abuse and even sworn at because vet is going to be late.
I fully appreciate some people are on tight schedules due to work but surely all of us would want the vet asap in an emergency?

Some of our vets and I'm sure many more up and done the country have alsorts told to them about clients personal lives much like a therapist/ agony aunt.
And the vets listen (which makes them late) but would probably get complaints of being insensitive/ un caring if they just left mid convo.
It is such a juggling act and honestly treating the animals is probably the easiest bit.

Equine and Farm vets spend soooo much time alone due to the job, it's easy to see why mental health is a huge problem in the industry
 
my vet did once ask if I rang him from the beach to avoid the OOH fee on purpose, it was 12.45 on a saturday I assumed it was OOH already 🤣.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
That wouldn't be OOH here. So long as they are taking booked apps for small animals I the surgery, equine/farm charging is considered within normal hours, so up to 7.00 pm
Click to expand...

The issue with this is large animal vets don't necessarily work the same rotas as the small animal staff... They may have someone on early shift (e.g. 8-4pm) and then a different vet on late shift (e.g. 10am-7pm) and maybe more somewhere in the middle. They also may not be expected to be on call, whereas the vast majority of equine vets and farm vets will do on call, and be expected to work the day before and the day after their shift. Also, if we're travelling to the horses, we can only be in one place at once, so if you start offering routine appointments up till 7pm and 3 people want them but they're all 40 mins in opposite directions from the practice that won't work, unlike small animals where the pets come to you. I understand 5.10pm being out of hours is frustrating, but there has to be a line somewhere, and by the time the vet has driven to your horse, treated it, and driven back, in reality they are likely to be getting home nearer 7pm.



With regards to the original topic, we don't ask for payment up front, unless it's a new client (in which case they will be charged at the time), or a naughty client/someone who already owes us money. And for pre-purchase exams, because we've had a few incidents of the horse failing and them disappearing off the face of the earth without paying (passes tend to pay because they want the paperwork!)
 
ester said:
See this shows the variability because every private consultation I have had has been invoiced after the appointment.
Click to expand...
You might be charged retrospectively for a consultation (although even that’s fairly uncommon these days) because all that costs is a bit of the consultant’s time. But I’d be astounded if anyone was willing to offer surgery or even prescribe expensive drugs without some kind of security.
 
I have to admit, I thought the £90 OOH fees for the recent colic actually wasn't too bad, especially considering it was 10pm on a Sunday night.

I do agree with a poster upthread though about timings with the horse appointments.
I totally understand them wanting to minimise travel for efficiency purposes and therefore needing to book as many people into the day as possible before route planning, but we don't get given the time of the appointment until the morning of said appointment.
Luckily my current job is exceptionally flexible and the one time I've had something I couldn't move, the vets could accommodate my request for avoiding that time of day.
But there are a lot of jobs where this simply isn't possible and would be a real pain.
My vets are often late (it happens), but the practice always gets a message to me to let me know, which makes the world of difference!
 
Pearlsasinger said:
Being a late payer isn't a protected characteristic, so discrimination against them isn't a thing!

I am pleased to say that my independent vet hasn't started asking for payment upfront. I remember the days when they sent out an invoice for small animal treatment but they ask for payment as you leave the surgery now. Although they are happy to send out an invoice for pts though.
Click to expand...
Yes. I remember when i was a dental assistant we would send accounts out each month. The receptionist disliked that time of the month, but I rather enjoyed helping out with it. (Especially folding up the photocopied accounts and putting them into the envelopes 🤔. It was quite Zen.) Of course these days, I cough up immediately afterwards for the treatment I receive at the dental practice that I go to now.

Idk, it would horrify me to be asked to pay for any treatment before receiving it. It goes against the grain. I can see why many vets want it done that way but...
 
I do remember 20 odd years ago that vets always invoiced after treatment which was particularly helpful when mine got colic and had to go to the RVC in London, I simply would not have had the funds to pay that bill! My insurance did pay it directly, it did take a lot of the stress out of it!

I think nowadays people buying horses need to be aware of the fact it’s payment on the day (or up front) and I do wonder if it would deter those who cannot afford horses from buying them? It’s like any service really, paying on the day or ahead of time…I think even small pet owners are unaware- recently I took our dog to the vets for something and there was a guy at the desk with an injured pet who was asking the receptionist how much the surgery would be as he needed to sell his car first to pay for it 🥺 Really sad state of of affairs
 
Lois Lame said:
Yes. I remember when i was a dental assistant we would send accounts out each month. The receptionist disliked that time of the month, but I rather enjoyed helping out with it. (Especially folding up the photocopied accounts and putting them into the envelopes 🤔. It was quite Zen.) Of course these days, I cough up immediately afterwards for the treatment I receive at the dental practice that I go to now.

Idk, it would horrify me to be asked to pay for any treatment before receiving it. It goes against the grain. I can see why many vets want it done that way but...
Click to expand...
At the dentists I have to pay for my next check up on booking it. Nine months in advance.
 
My horse vet does zone days for routine stuff which means its pre booked on a certain day of the week. You are required to pay on the day and they carry a card machine. If done on a zone day and you pay on the day you do not pay a call out fee. The visits are all arranged in a certain area so saves vets travelling time. Clients gain as no call out so a saving of around £60. It works well.
 
chaps89 said:
I have to admit, I thought the £90 OOH fees for the recent colic actually wasn't too bad, especially considering it was 10pm on a Sunday night.

I do agree with a poster upthread though about timings with the horse appointments.
I totally understand them wanting to minimise travel for efficiency purposes and therefore needing to book as many people into the day as possible before route planning, but we don't get given the time of the appointment until the morning of said appointment.
Luckily my current job is exceptionally flexible and the one time I've had something I couldn't move, the vets could accommodate my request for avoiding that time of day.
But there are a lot of jobs where this simply isn't possible and would be a real pain.
My vets are often late (it happens), but the practice always gets a message to me to let me know, which makes the world of difference!
Click to expand...
£90 us very reasonable, ours are now about £150 before 10pm and after 10pm it goes up to about £250. That's vetpartners for you!
 
Perhaps IVC? They took over my vet and subsequently closed it down but failed to let the clients know. Found out when you needed an emergency call out and discovered you did not have a vet!! RCVS thought that was OK! I now research everything and who owns it quite carefully.
 
LadyGascoyne said:
£90 is very reasonable!

The cat was £300 just for the OoO fee, not for the consultation itself, and we brought her to them so that doesn't even include travel.
Click to expand...
People often complain about OH fees for small animals. What they don't think about though is that the OH premises has to be staffed whether they get emergencies in or not. On a quiet night they may get nothing or virtually nothing, so they are paying wages, heating, electricity etc with no income. It's not like they can plan and book appointments in. So the fees have to reflect this, as well as the fact that staff wages are obviously a lot higher when working OOH.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top