Vet visit today - not what I expected

zandp

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So had the vet out today. Just noting this down so I remember what's happened and can keep track of what I'm now worried might be a drawn out process.

I own 2 mares, 26 year old ID/conn with PPID/EMS and arthritis and a 15 year old QH/TB who's had SI issues in the past, she's always been sharp - I've had her 12 years this year. The QH has been running backwards at speed and rearing when ridden so I'm starting to try and work out if there's pain before I just get on with the riding her through this (well someone more experienced will be riding her through the rearing if/when necessary as I've already fractured my cocyx coming off this one).

I strongly suspected ulcers and / or hormonal issues with her and had been thinking that would have been the best result (well best after the no pain, she's just saying no verdict) with spinal arthritis as the worst with PSSM dodging about in my brain as a possible. So not catastrophising at all !!

The older lady is needle phobic and we'd lined up vaccinations and her PPID retest today so it's been a fun morning although she was actually really good for her, helped by the vet being great, calm and quick. Vet examined a site where I'd found maggots on her rump last week and thought there was probably a scratch that had healed and they'd been attracted to that but has said she's fine in all and has recommended Exyflex mobility to help with her arthritis.

The lovely but slightly problematic QH was then brought out for a physical check over and a trot up. She was started years ago, but for reasons mostly out of my and her control has had a very fractured education so is very low milage so I was hoping I'd get told at the end of all this that she is sound and I just need to crack on as she's just being nappy - or as above - said expert cracks on with the riding as evasion and then works with me with her. Turns out she isn't sound and I've not been imagining that I have a lame horse.

Vet is starting the investigation process with ruling out (or in) arthritis in her hocks, the trot up revealed a rather lame horse on both hinds - I had thought that over the last few days she's been a bit shuffly behind on hard surfaces although is still managing to gallop around the track fine. Vet is thinking could be arthritic hocks which was a bit of a shock as that hadn't even entered my head as a possible issue but anyway we're on a danilon trial now for 2 weeks and then she'll be back out to reassess and work out the next steps.

On the plus side she came in from the field by herself, with no rearing, no spooking at the horse eating haylage bales she has to walk past every day but which are terrifying her currently. She also went into her stable by herself, with only 5 minutes of persuasion at the barn door and no rearing and didn't scream herself hoarse or try to kick her way out of the stable before I went to get the elder horse out of the field. She then showed she was back to normal (her calmness had been a bit disconcerting:D) by biting my elder one's bum as she came in.
 

Tiddlypom

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If the vet suspected arthritic hocks, why didn’t she do nerve blocks to rule that in or out? Bit puzzled about that.

But then I’ve two horses who have had both their SI joints and their hocks medicated this week - two very different horses and very different causes for both.
 

zandp

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Apparently they want them on their premises to nerve block so we're starting with the Danilon trial to see if it helps at all or if the pain is something else.

I would have preferred nerve blocking straight away but I do trust this vet practice as they worked out what was causing my other mare to be lame years ago after a misdiagnosis from another practice.
 

zandp

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I've been bringing them in during the worst of the heat as the flies are horrendous and there's not much shelter in the field / stables are cooler.

It's cooler today and although still plagued by flies the Danilon may be having an effect if the speed she galloped away from me when she saw me coming is any indication. Or in fact the springy way she trotted to me when she saw I had no headcollars but just breakfast. Of course she decided yesterday she didn't want to eat the Danilon so today she's had it with apple juice.

Vet's booked for next Thursday for the follow up.
 

Pearlsasinger

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I am sorry you are having problems but it was lovely to see how well you know your horses. I hope you get to the bottom of QH's problems without too much trouble.
 

zandp

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Vet came out, horse is using her quarters properly in canter so SI issues have been tentatively ruled out. Monday she's coming out with an x ray machine as the horse is definitely lame on her off hind, although the near side looks rather surprisingly great. Vet is still suspecting arthritis / hock issues but I've had one been misdiagnosed with this in the past so we're not rushing to conclusions and are going to start on the long process of ruling stuff out. She did mention bone scan and we'll discuss this further after the x rays.
 

zandp

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Last visit was under the last of the Danilon, visit yesterday was 3 days after the Danilon finished.

Horse is now noticeably lame in walk on off hind, in trot up - lame on off hind, not great movement from quarters and on the lunge - in both trot and canter - not moving properly, lame on off hind, very shuffly behind and significantly worse in canter on the left rein. Vet said their portable x ray would struggle to do more than x ray hocks and is referring us to B&W for scintigraphy. No x rays or nerve blocks done yesterday as no point.
 

Pearlsasinger

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Last visit was under the last of the Danilon, visit yesterday was 3 days after the Danilon finished.

Horse is now noticeably lame in walk on off hind, in trot up - lame on off hind, not great movement from quarters and on the lunge - in both trot and canter - not moving properly, lame on off hind, very shuffly behind and significantly worse in canter on the left rein. Vet said their portable x ray would struggle to do more than x ray hocks and is referring us to B&W for scintigraphy. No x rays or nerve blocks done yesterday as no point.

I hope you get some answers soon. I find it's the not knowing what's wrong that is the most stressful. At least when you have a diagnosis, you can make a plan.
 

zandp

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They think it's high up / and there may be more than one issue so a) I don't want to do a long drawn out investigation or stop at the first thing that looks like it's the problem and b) scintigraphy will reveal everything in one go. This will get to the heart of the issues in one go.

Now just the stress of trying to find transport as I have none and my friend who'd offered me a lift can't do the days they need her in.
 

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^^^^ Agree with GS. I can see why you are going for scintigraphy, but I was only discussing the procedure earlier this week with my chiro vet re my own horses.

She worked at a major university equine centre for many years. She said that 10 years ago, when it was new and sparkly, it was thought to be the wonder diagnostic tool. It has proved to show up a lot of red herrings and while it is still very useful, it works best when used in conjunction with other diagnostic techniques.
 

zandp

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Scintigraphy may not show all your issues .
horses like you describe often have multi causal issues and scintigraphy won’t show soft tissue damage .
However if scintigraphy shows a huge amount of issues it may help you to make a quick decision to go no further .

Totally agree and if I get that it’s more than I have now which is a long list of possible causes
 

zandp

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Long story short - she didn't load, despite sedalin and a lot of time spent practising, once I started ignoring all the well meaning suggestions and did things my way the practices improved daily and I was really happy with her progress but decided after an incident on the yard Sunday while we were practising which ruined the practise as she jumped backwards off the trailer / that if she didn't get on and load it wasn't going to be the end of the world. I had to repeat that a few times to my lovely friend who was helping and was driving us up there as she was getting a bit stressed about it - although she'll deny it :)

The supposed hospital visit day was the best trailer practice she'd done, she was calm and not panicking and trying to get off but couldn't stay on past 3/4 of the way in although was happy standing in the trailer and much happier than she'd been in a while.

She had a bad experience with a 3.5t conversion lorry I'd hired a few years ago so I know where the issue is / what caused the difficulty with loading and was actually really happy with how she was. I'm just frustrated that we didn't actually get on the trailer and get to hospital. Since doing the trailer practise she's now even more worried about being separated from the other horse so I'm not sure we'd have had a safe / non traumatic 2 hour journey to B&W anyway and have gone back to the drawing board.

Have discussed with the 1st vet - she suggested IV sedation to travel but that makes me uneasy so I asked if we could look at other ways of finding what's wrong. 1st vet is about to go on a 3 month study secondment so has moved me to another vet who's specialism is orthopaedics - so a win really.

Another vet from the practice is now coming out in a couple of weeks to see where we go / do nerve blocks etc. This is the actual vet that worked out what was wrong with the other horse so I'm happy to wait until she's free and am spending time walking around the farm in hand in the meantime.

So no steps forward, a few sideways and onwards and upwards after 7 October when the next appointment is (2nd vet is on holiday until that Monday).
 

zandp

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Orthopaedic vet finally came today. Rain stopped play the other 2 scheduled visits - she knows my mare and wanted to make sure she wasn't having a fit because of the rain - i.e. would actually move forward if she physically could.

Anyway, it was raining hard this morning but I was going to go ahead anyway as am fed up with waiting. It stopped raining and the sun came out half an hour before the vet arrived.

Long story short, horse was very calm and biddable despite being in overnight and staying in until vet arrived at 11am. She trotted up sound before and after flexion tests. She lunged sound in walk and trot in the school, vet wasn't impressed with our school so didn't want to ask for canter - it's been a bit flooded recently and is very deep on one side. We don't have anywhere hard and suitable to check how she was lunging on that type of surface.

Took her back into the stable and prodded her some more, horse stayed totally relaxed with everything. We discussed things for a long time and both are a bit puzzled. But basically I'm to start working her in hand - she's had time off since the last rearing incident, although we've been working gently every day since she failed to get to the vet hospital. She basically said get her fitter - lunging and hill walks and if she doesn't break get her ridden and if she hurts at any stage we get her examined more.
 

zandp

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We've been walking around the farm and she's not been lame.

She's got braver too which is good - she never used to be scared of things and the last year / when in pain she's not been herself, she's getting back to being the bold, brave mare she was.

I've been riding my old lady in her lovely new Scoot boots - and a friend's been leading the other one and we've been marching around the farm we livery on - all getting a bit fitter in the process. When weather allows anyway as we're in Somerset, the farm is on clay and it has felt like it's been raining for the last few weeks.

I've contacted someone relatively local recommended to me by someone I trust absolutely/. Bonus is she's audited Philippe Karl clinics as has 1 RI, my other RI trained with him - so the way of working will be familiar to the QH - and she's said she's happy to have her for a week to see if she can work with her and then she said before that I should ask the vet about PSSM . I have asked the vet about this constantly but am going to ask again as now both horses need a vet to look at teeth after the EDT visit last week.

I'm a bit worried that a week won't be long enough, she's very sharp and stressy and won't be with me or my other mare for the first time since I bought her, when she's tense she can be awful - rearing, kicking out, planting, rushing everywhere and always with a tense body. I've pointed out this behaviour may happen to the lady I'm talking to. I'm not doubting her ability at all but I'm worried anyway.

If it all works out I'm booking a transporter a friend's told me about who's patient with bad loaders / travellers. This yard is only about 3/4 hour away as well which is good and near the city I work near so easy to go and visit when allowed after work.
 
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