Vet visit - WWYD

[Fluffypiglet]

Sorry if this is long. I would appreciate thought as to whether I’m approaching this in a reasonable way. I’m completely overthinking and second guessing myself.

Horse isn’t right. Seems to have lost his bounce and not coming through from behind. Usual thing where it’s not so obvious that others can see but I know my horse and there is definitely something not right. I’m not willing to push him through as suggested as something is uncomfortable somewhere.

Teeth done, vet chiro done late July/ August. Slipped on hack but seemed sound after and carried on as normal. Saddle done a week ago (was a touch tight due to muscling up) Vet chiro and saddler pleased with how he’s looking and I’ve to ‘crack on’. Had him massaged last week after a small jumping clinic (very spooky and not his usual pingy self) and she found him sore on right shoulder, left hind quarters. Painful enough to gently wave a leg which he never does. He’s incredibly sweet natured and just wants to be a good boy.Possible compensation for loosing right hind on his hack?

He’s generally quite laid back, cba about some things but I can usually get him pinging if something more interesting is going on such as the clinic but this last week he was just not right. Gave him a. Couple of days off and just hacked this weekend. Still not feeling like he’s working through and feels like he’s worse on R hind (was bent slightly to left on the road as we went up a hill and felt like he was trying to avoid using R hind slightly? This is only a minor feeling because I’m watching/feeling carefully to try and work out what’s happening)

Anyway, have tried to call vet out and earliest he can be seen is end of the month. Options are:
Get another vet who I have no knowledge of (or necessarily trust in)?
Give horse this week as R&R then start working again week after to see what’s what and vet visit will be the following week?
Something else?

Thoughts,opinions, WWYD?

(Not sure I’ve done a great job of explaining, forum doesn’t work well on my tablet so typing is hard work!)

Thanks!

 

[Michen]

I’d keep him in normal work bar jumping and wait for trusted vet visit. Wouldn’t give time off if it’s subtle as you need it to show on a work up.

 

[Fluffypiglet]

I’d keep him in normal work bar jumping and wait for trusted vet visit. Wouldn’t give time off if it’s subtle as you need it to show on a work up.

THAnks Michen, I know you’ve unfortunately got a fair bit of experience in this so I appreciate your comments. I feel bad for having to push. If I take my leg off he grinds to a halt. I feel like a right meany carrying on. He doesn’t ‘look’ lame (instructor suggested a lesson) So I’m probably being too soft? I guess I just don’t know how much pushing is being unfair and how much he has to shout to tell me he hurts (never bucks or anything at all) ?

 

[Michen]

THAnks Michen, I know you’ve unfortunately got a fair bit of experience in this so I appreciate your comments. I feel bad for having to push. If I take my leg off he grinds to a halt. I feel like a right meany carrying on. He doesn’t ‘look’ lame (instructor suggested a lesson) So I’m probably being too soft? I guess I just don’t know how much pushing is being unfair and how much he has to shout to tell me he hurts (never bucks or anything at all) ?

Well you could maybe spend a week or so just hacking in walk on a long rein, and then up it a little in the few days before the vet visit? Though grinding to a halt the minute you remove leg pressure does seem like something not so subtle, if that makes sense... I think I’d struggle to work through that too. Could you phone your vet and see what they advise in mean time? Does he do it on the lunge too or long reins?

It would just be very frustrating if the drop off of work meant the vet had nothing to see.

I would definitely stick with the vet you trust. I have also learned how important it is to have that relationship with your vet, It’s been absolutely essential for me to have a vet who I can have an open, frank conversation with and who knows both me and my horse.

 

[Roxylola]

Supercob has had a minor niggle for a few weeks, no lameness or anything but hes been funny about picking his feet up and just a bit tight occasionally, work has changed nothing, so we've tried a fortnight off and just about to bring him back to work now, hoping that the break did the trick

 

[Fluffypiglet]

Thanks again. I do struggle between being a bit soft or pushing on. My instructor generally thinks I’m very soft and have taught the horse to take the pee! I know it’s never that straightforward and horses aren’t generally that devious but I do have insight into how soft I can be with him! I will give him tonight off and gentle ride tomorrow to reassess how mean I think I’m being. Unfortunately our turnout isn’t great either so he doesn’t really get much exercise out in the field (unless he decides to do a wall of death around his paddock).

 

[dixie]

I’d keep him in normal work bar jumping and wait for trusted vet visit. Wouldn’t give time off if it’s subtle as you need it to show on a work up.

This is what I’d do too but keeping the work to hacking only especially as he doesn’t have much turnout. My last Horse was like this. He was so generous and once he stopped marching off as soon as I got on and I had to start pushing him along I knew he wasn’t right. Unfortunately it took him having to start stopping at jumps before I listened ?

 

[Fluffypiglet]

I forgot to answer re lunging etc. I don’t lunge cos he’s a knob and learnt that he can charge off (my fault a few years ago!) and I’ve never tried long reining. Also he doesn’t always grind to a halt, he does mooch along reasonably well, most of the time. Out on our hack at the weekend I was trying to work out if it was a nap because he’s sore or is he just being nosy? He gets away with relaxing on hacks and is allowed to stop and look so my lack of good training is coming to bite me! I guess gentle walks out under saddle will be best for the next week or so unless he starts protesting.

Dixie - mine does stop at jumps at the beginning of every jumping lesson (always very spooky) but I think it has been getting worse and continues to look rather only the first jump or so. Unfortunately he has also been taught that stopping means you go from a standstill so he’s still going over the jump even though it is probably very uncomfortable. But I was also told it was a very spooky course... so then I doubt myself and whether it’s my riding, not being assertive enough etc.

I keep telling him he needs to let me know more clearly what the matter is! Hence now starting to investigate with the vet. Poor sausage. I’m glad he’s well behaved but sometimes it does him no favours.

 

[ForeverBroke_]

From what you're describing it sounds a bit suspensory-ish. I'd be a bit cautious I have to say. Mine wasn't lame, but just felt like the engine was out.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Spooky and grinding to a halt? Non specific not-quite-rightness? It could be PSSM, those are signs.

There’s a number of PSSM threads on here. IMHO worth trialling an elevated level of natural vit E to see if it makes a difference. I did this without any great expectations, and the improvement was rapid.

It’s something to rule in or out.

 

[Red-1]

I would not use the saddle until that is checked again.

From what I read he was OK until the saddle was adjusted.

 

[Fluffypiglet]

Thanks all - some interesting points, most of which have gone through my mind at some point on my paranoid journey of horse ownership!. I realise I’ve not been clear on some points and missed some context.

Re saddle: new saddle February this year, wow saddle. First time that horse has been working through the shoulder and from behind. Before this used to go in ‘an outline’ but never really used his back legs. Much improved since newsaddle, changed fitting a couple of times since February due to him filling out and changing shape. Has learnt to use his back legs which is why I think he may now have trouble with them. Saddle had narrow (ish) headplate which was catching either side. Latest change was into wider headplate as he has muscled up but nothing else has really changed. I was trying (and failing) to explain that saddle is adjusted and ok. Also something that leads me to think it’s hind legs is that we have been having SJ lessons every week (not big but learning to jump properly) for about 8 months. Prior to that just flat work, hacking and the odd fun jump.

Re grinding to a halt. This is in the school. Soft surface but also not his favourite place? On a hack he just doesn’t go forward as keenly. So where we normally have a canter I usually just give him a click and off we ping. And he hasn’t been. THinks about it but stays in trot unless I use legs to properly ask for canter. Ears up but not keen to zoom off like usual. This is quite new behaviour. Previously more good days although still times in the school when behind the leg and recent change to hacking only since he slipped and the lack of power started, albeit quite insidiously.

Took him for a walk in hand tonight for about 20mins and then grazed in hand on the lush grass before back in his stable for his hay. Very happy with his lot tonight. Just hope we can find out what it is causing him to lose his ping.

 

[Goldenstar]

Keep him in light work and get the vet you trust in ASAP .
Its sounds Like a soft tissue issue .

 

[jenniehodges2001]

Still not feeling like he’s working through and feels like he’s worse on R hind (was bent slightly to left on the road as we went up a hill and felt like he was trying to avoid using R hind slightly? This is only a minor feeling because I’m watching/feeling carefully to try and work out what’s happening)

Thoughts,opinions, WWYD?


Thanks!

If he is placing his right hind under him then the correct term is placing the limb mid line. Horses that do this sometimes do so to avoid pain somewhere in the leg, and quite often the hock.

If you lunge him on a surface do you notice he is dragging his hind feet or 'leaving a leg behind' or does he just look stiff? Does he often change his hind legs in canter on a circle? A flexion test on the hind limbs would make this condition worse but obviously if you are carrying out a flexion test yourself you need to know how to do it properly and how to interpret the results. Sometimes with spavin the foot is worn out quite quickly at the toe so that can be a reliable indicator. Also, you say he stops at the beginning of every jumping session. Having arthritis myself and being 'sound' when I get in the car and practically hobbling when I get out 20 mins later, but then by the time I've walked from the car park to the house I am 'sound' again, I can understand why the start of jumping might cause him to struggle.

I'd ask the vet for a lameness investigation asap. To be honest, from what you describe it could be a 101 other things.

 

[Fluffypiglet]

Tomorrow is the day the vet finally comes .. I'm dreading it. I have never been more hopeful that I'm wrong and he's fine! Horse has cheered up immensely since I first posted and is currently feeling 'a bit fresh' i.e. behaved like a knob yesterday and charged off with me in a field, so much for the gentle hack we were aiming for! If it is a suspensory type thing then it definitely won't have helped but since when did horses make sense. He hasn't done anything like that with me for ages. Safe to say, he's got his ping back and unimpressed with the couple of weeks of slow and steady and no jumping or other fun things. We've carried on working quite lightly but he's definitely improved and is feeling much more even and full of himself so I'm swinging between being optimistic that whatever it was has got better and being very aware that horses can still be quite broken but get on with it regardless. Fingers crossed nothing too dire is found tomorrow... Another sleepless night for me (which is always helpful) . Pointless post but will update again tomorrow in case it's of any help to anyone else.

 

[ForeverBroke_]

Fingers and toes crossed for today! xx

 

[Fluffypiglet]

Very pleased with the vet visit, a good work up and the vet was excellent at discussing what he was seeing (or not!) versus symptoms reported. I think the long delay in getting the right vet out did us a favour as horse has been kept in light work but has improved significantly since I first posted. Hence the more recent hi-jinks. Luckily fab YM was on hand to do lunging on soft surface as horse threw many shapes and I would have been pulled over. Anyway, it appears some early symptoms were likely due to him slipping on hack etc and now only left with very very minor rear leg swing (rather than stepping up and through) bilaterally when in a slow trot. So could be minor discomfort or may not be. I have had his hocks injected just to be sure. Three days turnout/ slacking off then I can bring him back into work over the following week to ‘normal ‘ including jumping. I’ve to update the vet in a couple of weeks and any concerns or feelings of NQR can be discussed further. Essentially he is well enough that there would be no where indicated to do any nerve blocks. Vet also gave me some ideas for strengthening back end involving poles. So much happier and much relief. I knew he had improved since my first post and as others noted, sometimes just a bit of time is enough to improve things.

Thanks to everyone for your thoughts/ ideas (many of which were mentioned to vet!) and fingers crossed things continue to improve.

 

[Fluffypiglet]

Supercob has had a minor niggle for a few weeks, no lameness or anything but hes been funny about picking his feet up and just a bit tight occasionally, work has changed nothing, so we've tried a fortnight off and just about to bring him back to work now, hoping that the break did the trick

How is supercob after his break? I hope you’ve had an improvement following time off.

 

[Roxylola]

How is supercob after his break? I hope you’ve had an improvement following time off.

Somewhat better, not perfect but still not actually an off step. And being cob legs trying to scan or anything is hard/useless as there is so much substance. So we're still monitoring basically ?‍

 

[Fluffypiglet]

Somewhat better, not perfect but still not actually an off step. And being cob legs trying to scan or anything is hard/useless as there is so much substance. So we're still monitoring basically ?‍

Oh no, that's no fun. Non specific is so difficult. I hope he feels better soon.

 

[Roxylola]

Mmm, he stormed round kelsall 80 at the weekend so its clearly not hurting as such. My worry is by the time it does hurt could be too late

 

[Fluffypiglet]

I had a stern word with mine and told him he's got to let me know if something is hurting, no use being brave and getting on with it! If only it were that easy ?