Vet wanting to ear twitch tiny newborn foal.......

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has anybody come across this before? Our mare delivered a foal several weeks early today, her udder has not developed and foal was getting a little milk but was trying to feed constantly so I called vet out to check mare and foal over and get a supply of milk replacer and colostrum. The mare doesn't like strangers and is extra stressy because of the foal anyway, within a few minutes of entering the stable and without even speaking to mare before trying to listen to her heart the vet decided she needed twitching (made a fast grab for her lip and told my daughter to twist the stick, mare made it clear it wasn't going to happen, I have never seen a twitch applied like that before and I have applied a few in the past without a problem) and then, because that didn't work, sedating. I even had to trim the mare's neck for the needle and she stood like a rock whilst I did it but would allow the vet. I told vet to give her a handful of nuts before she approached her again and she then allowed the sedative injection without a problem. I got the impression she was frightened, mare is 13hh, doesn't bite or kick, was just a bit bargy but I figured it would be better to have her calm so allowed the sedation. Had the vet bothered to talk to and stroke her before starting she would have been fine.

Then came the foals turn, I messed up the colostrum mix and it was a bit lumpy, then foal wouldn't suck from the bottle so vet decided she had to tube feed her and said to ear twitch her. I immediately said that I would hold her, she is tiny and I wouldn't allow the ear twitch, vet said 'it is only an ear twitch' so I told her that IMO they are worse than on the nose and that we have one who won't allow his head to be touched because someone had done that to him in the past. The vet produced the 'smallest I have ' tube and I should have stopped it there! I am so upset that I allowed her to insert this 'huge' tube into the poor foal's nose, the foal was upset and fought the whole thing and the tube came out. When the vet said she would re insert it I told her we would get the bottle down her ourselves if it took us all night. Apparently the foal reacted that way because she was unhandled (she is about 16 hours old!!!!) The foal took the colostrum from my hand bless her, I can't believe she allowed us anywhere near her after all that! After the vet had gone my daughter told me that whilst I was holding the foal when she was fighting the vet had grabbed her ear anyway, I am so angry when I specifically told her I wouldn't allow that!

They are supposed to be coming back tomorrow to take bloods but I am going to tell them not to bother and will never use them again. It is our 2nd practice that we don't use very often but are supposed to be equine specialists.
 
Wow I am shocked. What a crap vet!

The problem with many vets these days is they have no skill with horses in terms of handling them, sedation is always their answer! They have no patience and are always in a mad rush, which makes me mad as hell because when I consider call out fees and examination fee tops 80 quid around my way before any treatment, I expect a better service.

How ridicoulous to expect a 16 hour old foal to be handled.
And to suggest ear twitching a foal so young is shocking, as is having no patience to see if foal would take its food a more natural way.

My filly is not yet 2 and after getting caught up in a fence and injuring herself needed pain relief injection, an anti inflammatory and a tetanus.
The vet was fantastic, understood her age and had patience. He's about 50 this vet and knows his stuff. He never once tried to pressurise her, when she got scared and she did and reared up and all sorts, he backed off instantly, calmed her down by petting her etc. and then snook the injection in when she least expected it.

An awful situation like that can stay with them for life unfortunately, like one you mention that wont have his head touched.

Get another vet, a more experienced one with better horse skills that can read their language and not have to resort to force and sedation in the blink of an eye.

Hope you're wee foalie suffers no lasting effects x
 
Our normal vets are fantastic but I couldn't get through as the line was constantly engaged and I was panicking so thought that as these are 'equine specialists' they would be ok, lesson learned! I am tempted to ring them tomorrow and speak to the senior partner about my concerns. The reason the mare is like she is can be put down to her first vet treatment as a half wild pony, a vets we never used again, but that first experience can be enough to sour them for life, she can smell a vet at half a mile away and goes running if she gets the chance. My OH hates women vets for horses and I have to be honest and say that all the bad experiences have been down to women vets, although our usual practice has one that is brilliant because she has horses of her own and really knows how to handle them.
 
hch4971 said:
Our normal vets are fantastic but I couldn't get through as the line was constantly engaged and I was panicking so thought that as these are 'equine specialists' they would be ok, lesson learned! I am tempted to ring them tomorrow and speak to the senior partner about my concerns. The reason the mare is like she is can be put down to her first vet treatment as a half wild pony, a vets we never used again, but that first experience can be enough to sour them for life, she can smell a vet at half a mile away and goes running if she gets the chance. My OH hates women vets for horses and I have to be honest and say that all the bad experiences have been down to women vets, although our usual practice has one that is brilliant because she has horses of her own and really knows how to handle them.
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I would definitely ring them and explain the situation. That is highly unprofessional and even more shocking coming from so called 'equine specialists'.
 
If we have to supplement our foals by tubing we ear twitch all our foals!!! It just helps to restrain them that bit better and keep their head still! I know it doesn't look nice... but 1 wrong move and your foal could be having a lovely big nose bleed.

It's also not very nice for them to be tubed.. so ear twitching does help to relax them a little bit (just takes edge off!) - i'd rather restrain the foal and get the job done quicker than have a fight with the foal and something go wrong!!!
 
Your foal will need that blood test and if it's not had enough colostrum, it will need a plasma transfusion which will be worse than just taking the blood.

Get another vet now. Ring that vet and tell then not to come. They failed on so many counts. They've displayed an awful bedside manner with your mare & foal, not gone along with your wishes and IMHO, are risking causing that foal lifelong hang ups.

Any vet would be better than her. This thread has angered me
 
That's just appalling.

I think you have come to the right decision but a full letter of complaint would not go amiss!! It seems to me that some of the vets coming out to practice are all too ready to reach for restraint before they even consider anything else. I would get your normal vet out ASAP and sort out the immunity and have a little chat about not being able to contact them.

In the mean time I'd spend a few minutes now and again handling the foal. When you handle the foal, cradle it between your arms, one on the chest end and the other on the buttocks, as soon as the foal stops struggling release the grip but keep your arms there not touching the foal. The foal will really quickly learn that if it stands still there is no pressure and it makes handling for medical reasons much less stressful. I do this when they first stand and it is really helpful if you have to do anything with them in their first few days. Then I introduce a little leather foal slip and they understand pressure and release so lead at a couple of days old with a helping hand on the buttock.

I have stopped using vets for my horses teeth as at the mildest resistance they would want to sedate and I'm sorry but with pregnant and lactating mares that is just not going to happen. My dentist is brilliant with even the most belligerent, he does them out in the field where they are not constrained and spends a lot of time with them, plus he uses different rasps for different teeth which some vets don't bother with, he will also spend the time to handle the youngsters and get them ready for when they need dentistry.
 
**** i have re-read your post******

at 16hrs old.. in my opinion your vet should have run an IgG test then... (that's what I would ask for my foal!) that way you would know whether or not A- it needed supplementing... or B - whether it was worth just giving it plasma. (16hrs is fairly close to the time when foals can no longer absorb the antibodies from colostrum)

I would have no prob with ear twitching... its not an everyday occurance and you can ensure your foal is ok afterwards with desensitising it to having its ears touched etc...

with regards to your vet... If she didn't have a foal sized stomach tube.. she shouldn't of tried to tube your foal!!! Also,,, if you asked her not to ear twitch she shouldn't have!

How is your mares milk supply now? if its still poor ask your vets for some oxytocin. It will help her to let down....also up her feed (maybe add an extra feed into her routine????)

When I was younger a friend had a bad experience with a vet that wasn't an equine vet... with a foal.. it was clearly a dummy foal (looking back on it i know this now but at the time i had no clue) and the vets said it was fine.. even though it couldn't stand to nurse!!>>> they left it for 8 hrs without colostrum and said to my friend it was fine!

I hope your mare and foal are ok!! pictures when you have a chance!!! :)

Get the vet out to run an IgG asap.. so you know your little one has antibody coverage it needs!!! And i would be making a phonecall re your treatment yesterday too!!!! especially stating about the size of the stomach tube the vet tried to pass!!!
 
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Phone vets, ask to speak to senior partner and complain! That really isn't acceptable behaviour, and must have been really upsetting for you too! They may well be glad to have the feedback, I've complained about a vet before and they were really grateful!

J&C
 
What a terrible vet, get another one with some common sense about them!

That ear twitch could permanently damage the foal, & if she is tiny then you should be able to hold her.

My mare wouldn't let her (first) foal feed, but she had to be sedated for the vet to cleanse her (failed to pass al the afterbirth), & whilst dopey foal latched on, then mare twigged it felt good to get rid of some milk & no probs after that. Think it was because her bag was so full she was uncomfortable with it being touched initially.

Another vet came to do the foals markings (she has loads) for her registration/passport. Went into the small paddock & approached the foal without introducing himself to my mare first (was showing off to a student vet apparently). My girl was having none of it & chased him over the gate with knashing teeth. Did markings from outside the paddock. The vet should know to introduce himself to the mare first if he has any experience.

Get a vet who can show some level of understanding & compassion towards your horses, rather than brute force & ignorance.
 
if the foal was to be tubed it is safer to twitch it in some way, twitching the foal calms it down and stops struggling, it is kinder to twitch it and get the tube down quickly and safely rather than have the poor thing struggling and the tube taking ages/going the wrong way ect
it is unpleasent for the foal to be tubed, twitching the foal would have made it slightly less unpleasent
 
My mum has a small stud, and despite having the odd problems with feeding, an sometimes having to tube the foals, she has NEVER had to ear twitch.

To do so on a foal that size is completely unnecessary, and I tr vet was as cak handed as she sounds it is likely to damage the little thing!!!

What trollop!!!

OP, this is completely unacceptable, I would have tossed her on on her ear and told her to get the hell away from my horses!!

I would ring them and give them absolute hell as an equine 'specialist' he should know her behaviour is completely out of order.

I would also be using my usual vets pronto!!

Agree with the poster who said about the bloods- at least then you know if foalie got enough, but again, I would use the other vets!!!

Am I right in thinking you haven't had many foals? (it doesn't matter, just if you are inexperienced then the cow of a vet sounds like she's just completely ignored you and assumed you wouldn't know any better)

I would also get your normal vet to check the mare over, as this one sounds completely incompetant and I wouldn't trust her opinion in the slightest!!
 
OMG what a horrid experience for you, i would also be ringing the vets this morning and cancelling your appointment and also stating the reasons why and telling them that you will be only paying for the colostrum and the sedation but not for call out or vets time as you found the vet to be completely incompetant and you will not be paying for someone who in your opinion need to be re-training in how to handle mares and foals.
pleas stand your ground on this matter and do not let them bully you into paying a large bill for something that has left you very upset and not helped in anyway to getting the treatment for your foal.
Hope mare and foal are doing well this morning
 
It is our 2nd practice that we don't use very often but are supposed to be equine specialists.
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Then they need to think very carefully about the vets they are employing, and the experience they have prior to employment.

I would also be writing a very strongly worded letter to the practice.

It is appalling behaviour on the part of this so called 'expert'.
 
OK, I have just spoken to the senior partner who explained to me that the 'ear twitch' she was talking about is not a twitch as I thought of it (rope on a stick) but a grip done by hand, he said he would never call it a twitch! I also got in all my thoughts about the way she was generally with both mare and foal and he says he will speak to the vet with my comments. He is also going to check the size of the tube that was used as he says they all carry foal tubes but there is only one size of them and 3 for adult horses.

We have just had another vet from the same practice to take bloods, what a difference, went in and fed mare carrots and made a fuss of her, examined her udder with little difficulty and no sedation. She then went on to take blood from the foal for ICG test, check her palate, nostrils and rectum and sprayed her umbilical, I was holding the foal the same as last night, foal fought a little but the whole thing was so much calmer and faster. Neither mare nor foal were stressed out by the end of it and the good news is that foal is feeding ok, mare's milk has dropped and she seems to be getting enough. She looks bright and happy this morning although it took some persuading her that we weren't going to eat her!!
 
OK, I have just spoken to the senior partner who explained to me that the 'ear twitch' she was talking about is not a twitch as I thought of it (rope on a stick) but a grip done by hand,
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Yes, an ear twitch would normally be done by hand. It's not something I would ever do on an adult horse - let alone a foal.

Glad you had a conversation with them.

Now - pictures of the little one please :D:D
 
amymay said:
Yes, an ear twitch would normally be done by hand. It's not something I would ever do on an adult horse - let alone a foal.

Glad you had a conversation with them.

Now - pictures of the little one please :D:D
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I must admit it is not anything I would ever think of doing to a horse of any age but apparently is widely acceptable (but not on mine!!) I do feel better though that it is not done with a rope (he agreed with me that is totally unacceptable)

We forgot camera this morning but will get some more pics tonight, there is one on NL from yesterday

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=440520
 
That is discusting, no way i'd have let her anywhere near either of mine with an attitude like that, Please please put in a complaint to the practice immediately ad change your vet!! poor little might and her mum do not need that sort of handling ever, let alone the day after baby is born!!
 
I used to ride a horse who had been ear twitched once and he was still sensitive about having one ear (the one they'd twitched) touched 3 years later. IMO an ear twitch is an ABSOLUTE LAST resort (loose 18hh stallion on motorway otherwise going to cause accident/have to be shot type occasion). Certainly no excuse for doing it to a weak foal as it is totally unnecessary and can cause years of head-shyness/bridling issues. Change of veterinary practice/vet def the way forward.
 
Clippy said:
Your foal will need that blood test and if it's not had enough colostrum, it will need a plasma transfusion which will be worse than just taking the blood.
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QR - not got time to read all thread but thought I would give you some encouragement.

I had a foal who would not feed and for the first three days was fed directly into her stomach via a tube down her nose every four hours. There was no requirement for the foal to be twitched and a competent vet should be able to insert the tube very quickly.

The mare was more upset than the foal as she was aware it was not feeding and once it had been fed the foal would immediately fall into a deep sleep which the mare took for it going to the great stable in the sky so I had to be careful she was not to rough in her attempt to make it get up in feed.

Said foal also required a transfusion. Again more upsetting for the mare than the foal just had a lovely time bouncing about the stable dragging me with it and the vet following in hot pursute with the plasma bag whilst avoiding the feet of a seriously irritated mare!

Again a competent vet should be able to do this with a lively enough foal without resulting to twitching.

So I would agree with the advice to get a competent vet. Take a deep breath (or a large drink :D) yourself this part will soon all be over. Yes its not the way you really want to start off but sometimes these things happen.

One day your foal will be fully grown and 14 years old munching happily in the field with no ill effects just as mine is now:D

Good luck
 
That's absolutely disgusting, good for you for standing up for your foal and not allowing that to happen. Some vets are wonderful but others really do leave you wondering. I'd be complaining to the partners of the practise too because if clients don't tell them about stuff like this then they will never know. We made a point of telling our previous vets why we were leaving and whilst nothing would persuade us to stay with them they were grateful for the feedback.

When all is said and done they are a business like any other and really should take the time and trouble to get to know their subjects, learn horse handling skills etc.
 
There is a specialist equine veterinary practice near us, that we will never have again - they managed to lose us a Shire, through not diagnosing laminitis until she had foundered. Admittedly, I think it was caused by an underlying condition and probably the outcome would have been the same whatever but the underlying condition was never diagnosed properly either!
And there's another practice that has a so called 'equine specialist' that we won't have on the yard either.

We used to have a vet who was a cow specialist and terrified of horses but he was an excellent vet and always asked us to calm the horses and whenever necessary we administered the injections. So it certainly is possible for a wary vet to deal with a fractious horse.
I would speak to the senior partner at 'your' practice at explain why you won't be having them again.

ETA - just read your update
If you are happy to have the 2nd vet or his colleagues again, I would certainly tell the senior partner that the first vet must never darken your door again.
 
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I hate ear twitching, I knew a girl who would ear twitch everything just to give them a bit of sedalin etc. Resulted in one filly being very wary about her ears being touched. The vet I use is also the one we use at work, I've never had a problem with the way he's handled my horse or any others. A really fresh colt at work needed some sedation as vet needed to look at a hind hoof but everytime he went near it the colt went mental. The colt then started rearing up a tried to squash me and vet against wall, so he got hold of him and sent me out fir my own safety and tried to give sedation again. They had a short arguement and vet quickly calmed colt down, gave him his sedation and made a big fuss of him, gave him a cuddle and told him how good he was. Said colt is now very good for this vet and isn't anywhere near as hard for him to inject as he was previously.
 
I can't believe that in this day and age an ear twitch (just hand or otherwise) is considered acceptable practice. :( So many nerve endings, so much tissue which is so easily damaged...

Glad things seem to be working out for your foal, and hope the vets review their practices as a result of your call. :)
 
Naturally said:
I can't believe that in this day and age an ear twitch (just hand or otherwise) is considered acceptable practice. :( So many nerve endings, so much tissue which is so easily damaged...

Glad things seem to be working out for your foal, and hope the vets review their practices as a result of your call. :)
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I told him that I didn't think it could be condoned by anyone and that a vet condoning such a method caused me great concern. I must admit I accepted the explanation that it didn't use a rope and that it is taught in college and widely used, it is still not something that sits easily with me. I can cope with nose or neck twitch if the circumstances really warrant it.
 
HI

I used to work in a large vet hospital also a couple of studs and have frequently had to do ear twitch. It can be useful to keep the foal still and get things done quicker without causing stress, or causing anyone getting injured.

gwenllian said:
if the foal was to be tubed it is safer to twitch it in some way, twitching the foal calms it down and stops struggling, it is kinder to twitch it and get the tube down quickly and safely rather than have the poor thing struggling and the tube taking ages/going the wrong way ect
it is unpleasent for the foal to be tubed, twitching the foal would have made it slightly less unpleasent
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Totally agree with this ^^^

Many foals you can do a ear twitch on and it would not need sedation. I know it was your mare sedated just shows how effective ear twitching can be.
 
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