silvershadow81
Well-Known Member
I think that is about right. It was the Bakewell scores I was after (which was the start of August) xx
Veterans- Am I alone?
- Thread starter silvershadow81
- Start date
IdoShowing
Well-Known Member
This question of equalling the ages has been asked over & over again, really don't think it will change. SSADL have changed the age groups from the VHS so that more horses compete in the older sections, but i don't think that just because a horse is in old then it should to qualify over something thats young.
Its a shame that more don't qualify, but from the qualifiers i've seen, there are much much fewer oldies in the 2nd rounds, i think there weren't even any forwards in one quaifier! There are so many lovely ones competing in the pre-senior classes, but the numbers and quality get less as you go up in age groups. Evening up the amount qualified would mean that virtually by turning up, a horse in the older catagory would qualify because there aren't that many about! BS run a veteran show jumping competition, but they don't dictate how many from each age group should qualify for the finals & i doubt that BD will do so in their new dressage comps.
Its so hard when you're judging something thats 15 against something thats 25, but thats the way it is. The standard at the 2nd rounds is so incredibly high nowadays, although its a series for amateurs, there are some very polished combinations that compete (i'm not saying you're not one of them!). In the championship, the judges have to make a decision of which one they like them best.
They only way of getting round it would be if the winner from each age catagory at the 2nd rounds would qualify for Olympia & have 3 classes and a championship there, but i don't think there is enough time in the schedule at Olympia to allow for this. But it would be great if this could happen as that really would allow for more people to qualify from all age catagories!
Maybe this could be suggested as it would be fair for all - more golden oldies qualiy, but not at the expense of the other age catagories???
Its a shame that more don't qualify, but from the qualifiers i've seen, there are much much fewer oldies in the 2nd rounds, i think there weren't even any forwards in one quaifier! There are so many lovely ones competing in the pre-senior classes, but the numbers and quality get less as you go up in age groups. Evening up the amount qualified would mean that virtually by turning up, a horse in the older catagory would qualify because there aren't that many about! BS run a veteran show jumping competition, but they don't dictate how many from each age group should qualify for the finals & i doubt that BD will do so in their new dressage comps.
Its so hard when you're judging something thats 15 against something thats 25, but thats the way it is. The standard at the 2nd rounds is so incredibly high nowadays, although its a series for amateurs, there are some very polished combinations that compete (i'm not saying you're not one of them!). In the championship, the judges have to make a decision of which one they like them best.
They only way of getting round it would be if the winner from each age catagory at the 2nd rounds would qualify for Olympia & have 3 classes and a championship there, but i don't think there is enough time in the schedule at Olympia to allow for this. But it would be great if this could happen as that really would allow for more people to qualify from all age catagories!
Maybe this could be suggested as it would be fair for all - more golden oldies qualiy, but not at the expense of the other age catagories???
silvershadow81
Well-Known Member
Thanks for your comments Idoshowing.
I agree that there are less of the older veterans, in the 4 2nd rounds I have done this year, there have always been at least 6 in each class (in hand and ridden), once the winners have gone through to the Championships, I haven't seen one go through. (this is my observation) but if you attended one of the shows which the 3 veteran plus horses qualified then you would have been lucky to witness it!
I think you are right about the time allocation at the final, would be lovely for that to happen, but they would have to book at least double more time (unlikely)
I wouldn't expect an equal % from each age category, as agree, there will always be more younger ones than older ones. Maybe just something a little more in line.
Maybe out of the 29 horses going through:
Pre veterans- 12 (so 41%)
Veterans- 10 (so 34%)
Veteran Plus- 8 (so 27%)
or even some appreciation to ensure/ monitor percentages so not favoured towards younger ones? (which I think has happened this year, I am unsure of previous years)
I agree that there are less of the older veterans, in the 4 2nd rounds I have done this year, there have always been at least 6 in each class (in hand and ridden), once the winners have gone through to the Championships, I haven't seen one go through. (this is my observation) but if you attended one of the shows which the 3 veteran plus horses qualified then you would have been lucky to witness it!
I think you are right about the time allocation at the final, would be lovely for that to happen, but they would have to book at least double more time (unlikely)
I wouldn't expect an equal % from each age category, as agree, there will always be more younger ones than older ones. Maybe just something a little more in line.
Maybe out of the 29 horses going through:
Pre veterans- 12 (so 41%)
Veterans- 10 (so 34%)
Veteran Plus- 8 (so 27%)
or even some appreciation to ensure/ monitor percentages so not favoured towards younger ones? (which I think has happened this year, I am unsure of previous years)
bakewell
Well-Known Member
Mhmm it's a shame the judging isn't done on points as it would be at a morphology contest as then you could weight the scores or apply a penalty which related to age.
With the calculator person and the judge being different people.
I accept this is way too much for most classes with volunteers at local shows but I'd be interested in attending a veteran show where it was the case. I think it would show the exceptional older horses more fairly.
With the calculator person and the judge being different people.
I accept this is way too much for most classes with volunteers at local shows but I'd be interested in attending a veteran show where it was the case. I think it would show the exceptional older horses more fairly.
silvershadow81
Well-Known Member
Agree, their scoring system in the classes are based on marks out of 50 (for presentation/ manners) 30 (for Condition type breed) and 20 for 'Mark for Equine age suppleness'
This seems to work in the classes. (although I did see an amazing 28 year old get 10/20 and a 15 year old get 19/20 for 'Mark for Equine age suppleness' so not too sure the judge had grasped the point of that section!
silvershadow81
Well-Known Member
For those following this, I did get a response:
''Senior Showing & Dressage Ltd SSADL are monitoring the classes .
Our marks sheets have proved a big success as it credits the animals age and suppleness for age within the marks .
Olympia this year will not have many 15 year old going through. Yes in an ideal world if we could let each age group through at all 2nd rounds that would be great BUT you must look at the bigger picture we can only have 29 animals at Olympia , we have in hand and ridden sections, to let each age group through then we would have far fewer 2nd round qualifiers which would then mean more travel occurring for your seniors.
What the future holds I can not say but I will again state we are looking into the matter.''
Hopeful that the older ones may get a better chance next year....... maybe..... fingers crossed!
''Senior Showing & Dressage Ltd SSADL are monitoring the classes .
Our marks sheets have proved a big success as it credits the animals age and suppleness for age within the marks .
Olympia this year will not have many 15 year old going through. Yes in an ideal world if we could let each age group through at all 2nd rounds that would be great BUT you must look at the bigger picture we can only have 29 animals at Olympia , we have in hand and ridden sections, to let each age group through then we would have far fewer 2nd round qualifiers which would then mean more travel occurring for your seniors.
What the future holds I can not say but I will again state we are looking into the matter.''
Hopeful that the older ones may get a better chance next year....... maybe..... fingers crossed!