Veterans Vitality for young horse?

[Double JD]

Hi all ?
So have recently had A&P out to do a health check on my 7 year old ex racehorse and he was originally on FF but they advised to switch him to VV.
He’s been on this now for a couple of months and I have noticed that he’s not looking as good, rather quite ribby!
FF wasn’t giving him everything he needed but don’t think VV is either.
He is fed this with spillers conditioning fibre, half scoop of Baileys Conditioning cubes, linseed meal.
Now I have to be really careful as he gets very fizzy & hot if fed any molasses or high sugar/starch.
I am just interested if anyone else has fed their youngster VV and if you have found it successful to their weight & condition?
Or if anyone has any suggestions as to wha to I can try that would be amazing! It’s a minefield out there with feed!!
He’s currently in at night with two haynets as grass isn’t great at the yard.
Thank you

 

[Spotherisk]

Are you feeding the recommended amount? Why are you feeding the Spillers, Baileys and A&P?

 

[windand rain]

Sounds like you are feeding too many feeds and unbalancing all of them. I would feed the full amount of vv and a cup of linseed. My go to diet for everything is grass nuts soaked and mixed with grass chaff as a base then add linseed for those that need more weight. I do use a good powder vit/mineral supplement too.

 

[Double JD]

Are you feeding the recommended amount? Why are you feeding the Spillers, Baileys and A&P?

When I spoke with the A&P agent originally they said to stick with the spillers conditioning fibre & VV, then when I called them again to say he’d lost condition on VV, and he’d actually lost energy too which they couldn’t understand they actually recommended I add either a scoop of soothe & gain (but this blew his brains previously) or for me to add half a scoop of conditioning cubes.
Seemed a little too chaotic for me but thought I’d give it a go as they advised, but hasn’t made any improvement.

 

[Double JD]

Sounds like you are feeding too many feeds and unbalancing all of them. I would feed the full amount of vv and a cup of linseed. My go to diet for everything is grass nuts soaked and mixed with grass chaff as a base then add linseed for those that need more weight. I do use a good powder vit/mineral supplement too.

Thank you
Yes I thought things were a little too unbalanced due to the fact he’s lost condition and I feel he’s lacking energy too.
He is on the full amount of VV and the recommended amount of linseed meal.
So would you recommend I bin the spillers and go to grass chaff & grass nuts?

 

[KittenInTheTree]

How much hay is he actually getting in those two nets per night? Have you weighed it?

 

[Double JD]

How much hay is he actually getting in those two nets per night? Have you weighed it?

Hi, he is getting 2 x 6kg haynets. He’s 16.3 (a big 16.3 possibly nearer 17hh) and weighed in at approx 620kg.

 

[windand rain]

If he is finishing the hay by morning he needs more. and yes I would get rid of the fibre nuts in favour of grassnuts and chaff
If that doesn't work after time you could up his protein intake by slowly swapping the grass for emerald green alfalfa nuts and chaff Which could help as long as he doesn't react badly to alfalfa of course

 

[The Xmas Furry]

I've fed younger animals on veteran feeds with quite a good rate of success, but VV isnt one of them, I'm not a fan at all. Pure feeds veteran 3 winters ago, fed 3 x a day, along with boiled barley and linseed once a day for 6 weeks really helped, plus ad lib hay (which I did weigh out of interest)

Ref the hay. B Fuzzy at 14hh managed to eat 56lb (about 25kg, yes, and in 12 hours) overnight in hay through December 18 from when she arrived for about 4 weeks or so, then gradually levelled out. Lovely vet and nutritionist agreed together that hay in this instance was preferable to haylage.

It was D&H who got me to use their veteran mix in the early 90s for a very poor 6 yr old Welsh B. Fed at their recco rates for 8 weeks, it really helped. However, I was sponsored by them at the time.

 

[Auslander]

Hi, he is getting 2 x 6kg haynets. He’s 16.3 (a big 16.3 possibly nearer 17hh) and weighed in at approx 620kg.

He can't be that skinny if he weighs 620kg! That's only 40kg lighter than my 16.3hh, who is a broad, solid mw hunter type.
I don't rate Allen and Page - full of starch and sugar, and very little in the way of good quality calories.
I feed skinny ones ad lib haylage, as it's more digestible than hay, with a pelleted balancer, grass chaff, linseed and speedibeet in their feedbuckets. The biggest change I see is when they have haylage in the field during the day, as well as at night.

 

[Double JD]

If he is finishing the hay by morning he needs more. and yes I would get rid of the fibre nuts in favour of grassnuts and chaff

Thank you!!! He does always have hay left in the nets when I get to him in the morning but if this changes I’ll up his evening hay. I was considering swapping some hay for haylage but concerned about the sugar content for him.
I will bin the Baileys nuts and spillers chaff and go and get some grass chaff & grass nuts. Do you recommend any particular brand as I’ve not used this before? Sorry for all the questions ?‍

 

[windand rain]

Emerald green are my go to as they do not use chemicals on their grass and alfalfa are reasonably priced and locally grown to me. They are a national company and very pleasant to deal with.

 

[Double JD]

He can't be that skinny if he weighs 620kg! That's only 40kg lighter than my 16.3hh, who is a broad, solid mw hunter type.
I don't rate Allen and Page - full of starch and sugar, and very little in the way of good quality calories.
I feed skinny ones ad lib haylage, as it's more digestible than hay, with a pelleted balancer, grass chaff, linseed and speedibeet in their feedbuckets. The biggest change I see is when they have haylage in the field during the day, as well as at night.

I was actually considering ditching the A&P VV and going to speedibeet and as suggested by @windand rain and yourself this would work well with grass chaff and the linseed he’s already on. A balancer I can pick up for him too.
Haylage is on the shopping list too, was either going to swap out some of his evening hay or give him haylage in the field during the day, I was just a little hesitant due to a friends TB going wild after having haylage for a couple of weeks and I really don’t want to blow his brains as he’s such a big lad!

 

[KittenInTheTree]

When I spoke with the A&P agent originally they said to stick with the spillers conditioning fibre & VV, then when I called them again to say he’d lost condition on VV, and he’d actually lost energy too which they couldn’t understand they actually recommended I add either a scoop of soothe & gain (but this blew his brains previously) or for me to add half a scoop of conditioning cubes.
Seemed a little too chaotic for me but thought I’d give it a go as they advised, but hasn’t made any improvement.

Regarding the Sooth & Gain, it contains rapeseed oil instead of soya oil. It also has oatfeed, but so does the Fast Fibre, so if he was okay on that, then I would suspect that it may have been the rapeseed oil that triggered him.

 

[Auslander]

Not sure where you are, but have you thought about speaking to an independent nutritionist? I use Equicare Nutrition, owned and run by an equine vet/nutritionist who was previously Nutritional Manager and Vet for one of the big feed companies - she really knows her stuff. https://equicarenutrition.co.uk/

 

[I'm Dun]

Thank you!!! He does always have hay left in the nets when I get to him in the morning but if this changes I’ll up his evening hay. I was considering swapping some hay for haylage but concerned about the sugar content for him.
I will bin the Baileys nuts and spillers chaff and go and get some grass chaff & grass nuts. Do you recommend any particular brand as I’ve not used this before? Sorry for all the questions ?‍

Speedibeet and emerald green is what I feed my very good doers. The poor doer ex racer would be a hat rack fed just those. I wont stuff him full of cereals, but he needs more than the simple feed my others get.

Hes on pink mash and sensicare at full dose. They have linseed and rice bran oil so no need to add more. He also gets a big bucket with 3 scoops of beet and 3 scoops of alfalfa and added oil. He will eat his feed then pick at the big bucket through the day. He also eats a lot of hay! About 20kgs a day I think, as well as picking at grass. I fill a builders sack for him and just keep it topped up.

I'd add a decent dose of vitamin e as well. I'm not sure why, but mine always holds condition better with it.

 

[HashRouge]

My sister had a lot of weight issues with her ex-racer and it turned out that he had ulcers. He really put an amazing amount of condition on once his ulcers were treated. In your shoes, I would consider asking the vet to have a look if it really is hard to keep weight on your horse.