veteren feeds vs conditioning feeds

[clairefeekerry1]

if an older horse needs more condition and weight, would a veteren mix be better or a standard conditioning feed. presume veteren mixes are generally conditioning feeds with added bits for oldies.
really looking for the highest calorie mix and they both look similar

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

For weight gain condition and general feel good I use A+P veteran vitality with alfalfa and sugar beet for my mare, shes not a veteran but I was finding it har to put weight on her and conditioning mixes were blowing her head without really doing anything

Would say to try this over a mix

 

[clairefeekerry1]

For weight gain condition and general feel good I use A+P veteran vitality with alfalfa and sugar beet for my mare, shes not a veteran but I was finding it har to put weight on her and conditioning mixes were blowing her head without really doing anything

Would say to try this over a mix

hi, was looking at that BUT he will not eat anything too wet or mushy and not too fussed with cubes but loves mix. the allen and page stuff looks to be a wet type of food- like calm and condition- he wont touch that.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

You can have it sloppy or thick and dryer my mare is the same she tips over the bucket if they are too wet, I make up the night feed in the am and leave to dry and the Am feed the night before as I can pour out any excess water before I leave since it only take three mins to make up

A mix I tried on her was the veteran mix --- http://www.britishhorsefeeds.com/natural-country-feeds/veteran-care-mix and she found it very palatable and it didnt blow her head but was not easily sourcable around me

 

[Bethie]

My 2 oldies have held condition much better since I started them on Veteran Vitality, even though it is lower DE/kg than the conditioning feeds they were getting before. They think it tastes wonderful, which means they will eat more of it than they would other stuff in the first place (it smells very minty if that might tempt yours), although once they'd put on the weight I wanted them to gain they haven't needed much to maintain it, and I think as they don't have much left to breakdown through the digestive system they find it very easy to extract the nutrients from it, so you're not "wasting" any.

 

[Fransurrey]

I feed Veteran Vitality too and I've been complemented twice in a week on his condition (he's pushing 20). He also tips over sloppy feeds, so I mix in a handful of Hi-Fi lite before feeding it (he gets half a Stubbs Scoop of sloppy stuff).

 

[CBFan]

Earlier in the year we swapped my friend's very poor 17 year old from D&H 16+ to Baileys No4 (at 1.5 stubbs scoops per day) and spillers veteran balancer (2 cups a day). The difference in him has been amazing.

I think Cubes are easier for veterans to digest than mixes but if yours really doesn't like cubes how about trying to add a balancer to his feed? if you add it gradually enough he won't notice and the final ammount is so small that a mix would easily disguise it.

 

[Aces_High]

I am not into "veteran feeds" at all. For weight gain, I swear by Bailey's Top Line as has been mentioned. I have a very poor doer and he thrives on it. I just feed it with a bit of chaff and a few squirts of Soya oil. I used to feed Alfa A Oil but this is a much cheaper and equally productive substitute. There is an old horse kept on my farm and it's not done well at all on the veteran feed.

 

[clairefeekerry1]

okay, so this is what he's currently fed- baileys outshine, D&H build up mix and alfa a oil. he's coming over to me to have a bit of an easier life, some light hacking etc. he's a tb and early 20's. he is in need of some TLC, but does look pretty poor to me. hips, ribs clearly visable. now i've known him for years and he'll never look fat, he's natuarally a very light horse but i just want to make sure he's looking and feeling his best. plus, i want to simplfy his feed too. he'll live out 24/7 in the summer and our fields are large and grass is okay ish as it can be given the dry weather we are having. no hay/haylage is fed in the summer as all the horses are fat. so was wondering whether he'd do better on a vetern mix rather than all the conditioning feeds he is on now?

 

[Aces_High]

To be honest, Outshine, Build Up and Alfa is pretty simple!! How much mix is he getting?

 

[clairefeekerry1]

To be honest, Outshine, Build Up and Alfa is pretty simple!! How much mix is he getting?

ye fair point, was just wondering whether it was all worth it though given he still looks very lean, esp the outshine as its so expensive.
he's on about round scoop of each (not the outshine as it has its own measurment) twice a day. the grass he's currently on is a bit long and stalky which he doesnt like so even though our grass is shorter its more 'grass' like if you see what i mean. he was also on allen and page weight gain mix but current owner found it hard to source so moved on to the build up. was maybe thinking of adding a bit of kwiki beet?

 

[Aces_High]

1 (Stubbs) scoop of cubes is approx 1 1/2 scoops of mix. I would personally feed more concentrates than roughage as the horse is out all day and night, he'll be getting all of that from the grass. The scoop of Alfa is really a little waste of time as he's getting the oil from the Outshine and he has 24hr access to roughage. If he bolts his food then I'd be inclinded to add a double handful standard chaff. Sugarbeet is fine to feed but again he will be gaining the main nutrition from the balanced diet (being the mix or cubes) rather than from the sugarbeet etc. You can often end up feeding too little of the mix or cubes diet as you then add a scoop of chaff and then a scoop of sugarbeet so in theory that's too much food for his stomach and which will do not an awful lot compared to just giving him 2x scoops of Top Line Cubes or what ever mix or cubes for that ration. Sorry it's a bit jumbled but do you get my drift?!
I think I've just written the longest sentence in history!!
Just re read your post! Outshine is good but like you say it's expensive, I would use oil instead as it's cheaper and is very high in calories without it adding weight to the ration. You can work out how many mls you will feed per day and divide it into the 20L and it works out a cheaper way of increasing calories and in turn gaining weight. The other thing I'd add for an old horse and more often than not old TB's. They do thrive on being in work, gentle hacking etc will keep his muscles and mind healthy.

 

[CBFan]

Have his teeth been checked recently? If not, May be worth doing.

I think your sugestion of adding some beet of some kind could be a good idea. As he's not doing well on what he's on, it sounds like he's in need of a change...Oldies sometimes find chewing quite difficult. Could you perhaps try a conditioning cube rather than mix? If you perhaps soak them with the beet and introduce them slowly while weaning him off the mix you might find he eats them ok? I really rate Baileys No4 topline cubes... and perhaps look at changing the balancer to a veteran one. I have also found sunflower oil (from ASDA) great for adding weight and shine to coats - at £3 for 3 litres you can't go wrong!

Alfa -a is great although it can make their kidneys etc work quite hard which in an oldie isn't ideal... maybe something like Graze on Gold blend would be better for him? Or something else with a lower Alfa A content.

If he isn't on the best grazing and you can't feed hay then adding plenty of beet to his diet is a great substitute - plenty of fibre and bulk without the need to chew!

 

[CBFan]

Just read the post above mine and whilst I agree about the chaff being a waste of space so to speak it does serve a function in terms of replacing fibre if the grass is poor or he's not getting any hay but as stated it does make feeds quite large and thus push feed through his stomach before all the goodness can be absorbed... but them I guess thats where the 20 metres of intestine come in...

 

[clairefeekerry1]

1 (Stubbs) scoop of cubes is approx 1 1/2 scoops of mix. I would personally feed more concentrates than roughage as the horse is out all day and night, he'll be getting all of that from the grass. The scoop of Alfa is really a little waste of time as he's getting the oil from the Outshine and he has 24hr access to roughage. If he bolts his food then I'd be inclinded to add a double handful standard chaff. Sugarbeet is fine to feed but again he will be gaining the main nutrition from the balanced diet (being the mix or cubes) rather than from the sugarbeet etc. You can often end up feeding too little of the mix or cubes diet as you then add a scoop of chaff and then a scoop of sugarbeet so in theory that's too much food for his stomach and which will do not an awful lot compared to just giving him 2x scoops of Top Line Cubes or what ever mix or cubes for that ration. Sorry it's a bit jumbled but do you get my drift?!
I think I've just written the longest sentence in history!!
Just re read your post! Outshine is good but like you say it's expensive, I would use oil instead as it's cheaper and is very high in calories without it adding weight to the ration. You can work out how many mls you will feed per day and divide it into the 20L and it works out a cheaper way of increasing calories and in turn gaining weight. The other thing I'd add for an old horse and more often than not old TB's. They do thrive on being in work, gentle hacking etc will keep his muscles and mind healthy.

thank you! lol that makes sense, i see what you are saying! def looking into adding oil rather than outshine or at least maybe switching to dodson and horrel version, build and grow i think it is as its at least a tenner cheaper than outshine, tho i do like the outshine bag as its very shiney and nice LOL!!!!!
re work, ye the reason he's coming to me is we are on a country estate and have 120 acres of of road hacking so he's coming to me to live a nice hacking life. lots of walking and hills, he's a great hack so will get lots of use with me, he's been let down for a while now so needing to do something. half of me thinks that the weight and condition will improve with being back in some kind of work

 

[clairefeekerry1]

Have his teeth been checked recently? If not, May be worth doing.

I think your sugestion of adding some beet of some kind could be a good idea. As he's not doing well on what he's on, it sounds like he's in need of a change...Oldies sometimes find chewing quite difficult. Could you perhaps try a conditioning cube rather than mix? If you perhaps soak them with the beet and introduce them slowly while weaning him off the mix you might find he eats them ok? I really rate Baileys No4 topline cubes... and perhaps look at changing the balancer to a veteran one. I have also found sunflower oil (from ASDA) great for adding weight and shine to coats - at £3 for 3 litres you can't go wrong!

Alfa -a is great although it can make their kidneys etc work quite hard which in an oldie isn't ideal... maybe something like Graze on Gold blend would be better for him? Or something else with a lower Alfa A content.

If he isn't on the best grazing and you can't feed hay then adding plenty of beet to his diet is a great substitute - plenty of fibre and bulk without the need to chew!

fussy little tb wont eat cubes or anything wet!! loves the mixes though! re his teeth they are done every 6 months so up to date. he's just a typical lean tb really and in need of some tlc. also, he's recently been turned out with a colt apparently and whilst they got on fine i think its taken quite a bit out of him as colt was well- a typical colt!

 

[hollyandivy123]

ok the best i have found was adding linseed meal and home made boiled barley to alpha A.
to make home made boiled barley, take 1 cup of barley and add to 4 cups of water, bung in microwave and there you have pony porridge, let it cool and feed (use to make it the night before). works out cheaper than all the bought cooked meals etc, easy to digest.

 

[Aces_High]

Just read the post above mine and whilst I agree about the chaff being a waste of space so to speak it does serve a function in terms of replacing fibre if the grass is poor or he's not getting any hay but as stated it does make feeds quite large and thus push feed through his stomach before all the goodness can be absorbed... but them I guess thats where the 20 metres of intestine come in...

I agree - I'd be inclined to feed adlib hay if there isn't any grass or he's not getting any goodness. I know that OP said the other horses were fat so you might have to electric tape him off or turn him out with another poor doer and they can munch hay together?? Does he really turn his nose up at cubes? I know a lot of people do not like feeding cubes as to them they do not look appertising but the horses do like to eat them!
I spoke to someone recently who has a poor doer that's on rubbish grass (drought here!) but very good adlib hay. I mentioned that she should feed it more concentrate and cut the chaff down. The person said "I couldn't possibly feed him without chaff as it looks wrong." So the horse is still getting a bucket of chaff and sugarbeet and 1/2 a scoop of mix!

 

[clairefeekerry1]

I agree - I'd be inclined to feed adlib hay if there isn't any grass or he's not getting any goodness. I know that OP said the other horses were fat so you might have to electric tape him off or turn him out with another poor doer and they can munch hay together?? Does he really turn his nose up at cubes? I know a lot of people do not like feeding cubes as to them they do not look appertising but the horses do like to eat them!
I spoke to someone recently who has a poor doer that's on rubbish grass (drought here!) but very good adlib hay. I mentioned that she should feed it more concentrate and cut the chaff down. The person said "I couldn't possibly feed him without chaff as it looks wrong." So the horse is still getting a bucket of chaff and sugarbeet and 1/2 a scoop of mix!

i have no issues with cubes and actually would prefer them as find them easier to feed just the horses current owner has pre warned me he ends up just nosing the cubes around so she feeds him a mix instead. he would come in daily for a med size haynet whilst i'm tidying up and doing yard stuff and we have an 'injury' paddock which is currently unused which is very rich in grass at present so whilst he cant be in there all the time he could be let out there to graze for an hour a day or similar when i' doing things in the yard (he'd need to be supervised due to its location) we have another couple of tb's who have done really well on our grazing as whilst its not knee high its rotated often and very well looked after

 

[honetpot]

If they like the taste Coolstance is excellant at giving them calories in a fibre form and its easy for them to eat. Does smell of coconut though.

People just seem to think a bucket full of chaff, basically straw with a DE of about 8.5per kg is the same one full or nuts or mix with a DE of about 11 per kg . You explain it over and over again, they nod and then say but 'I'm giving him a full bucket and he's just not putting any weight on' Arrgh!!!

 

[Aces_High]

I do think once you have the horse, try him on cubes and see how he gets on. Once he's in your care you can trial and test things to get weight on him. Great you have a paddock with heaps of grass. I'd pop him in there whilst you are fiddling around like you have suggested. Your set up sounds idyllic! Especially having grass... We hadn't had any rain for over 3 months until last week and the grass has all burnt off and blown away. Well not quite but it's pretty sahara looking! You've certainly got the best months ahead to get condition on him before the winter. I think you'll also be amazed at how much he will change physically with exercise. Watch out, I might send my old horse up to you...
Honetpot - I do not say anything anymore but struggle like mad with the moaning!

 

[Derfette]

I use both conditioning and veteran feeds. Fred is 20 lives out all year round and is thriving! He's fed Spillers conditioning fibre and Spillers veteran balancer (to ensure he gets all the necessary vitamins and minerals). He tends to hold his weight well, so doesn't need the quantity of hard feed but has the fibre to make sure his condition and top line are maintained without any excitability.