Veterinary ethics a rant!!!!

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trick123

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I don't normally start posts on here but I wondered what others think of this. A friend had a horse that had developed some very unusual behaviour, basically it used to flip , break out of its stable and gallop headlong anywhere, through a hedge, towards people, as if it didn't really know what it was doing. When it stopped it would be very miseable, ears flat back and twitch with its head. This has been going on for a few months, and the vet put it on steroid injections which would last maybe a week, at a very expensive price I might add. Anyway it really was becoming a danger to itself other horses people etc and the owner decided whatever was wrong with it it had no quality of life so should be pts. Vet was called and said are you really sure we could put it on steroid tablets - 150 a day tub costing £80 a shot, and it would last a week! And although the owner dithered, daughters upset etc, she decided it was better for the horse as there was no guarantee they would work. Then the vet proceeded to persuade the owner to take the more expensive option of a pet cremetorium rather than the knacker man basically because it would be nicer! This woman doesn't have a lot of money but has been persuaded to spend £800 rather than £150 to dispose of the horse. She doesn't want the ashes. I have other anecdotes about this practice, not worth going into now, but I do wonder sometimes what is more important to them the welfare of the horse or the money they rake in selling drugs for these poor animals who have no quality of life.
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Maybe they are giving the owner all the options rather than a knee jerk reaction of having it PTS.

If you look at it another way I would be more upset if a vet advised PTS and then I found out there were alternatives to try.

Maybe they are dammed either way.
 
People tend to think the proffesions are beyond reproach and I guess this is nothing that the professional body would look into, but as you say, it is a question of ethics. It happens in other profesions too - I was directly involved with a law firm which was giving its client wrong advice (there was no doubt about it, the advice was incorrect in law) which made that client believe he had a case in a dispute with his neighbour and threaten legal action, which would have cost 6 figures. When it would have been more ethical to calm him down, talk sense into him and if he didn't listen to it, refer him to another firm. Another client with a different firm had Munhausen's Syndrome and asked to be referred to an expert for diagnosis, who found there to be nothing wrong with her, as had all NHS doctors. She asked to be referred to another expert, and the firm decided it was more ethical to refuse to do so and advise her to contact another firm, even though it would have been easy to take her fees. That is the professional approach to take.
 
That is disgraceful.
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It is, however up to the owner to look into the practicalities of pts horses and what to do with the bodies taking costs into consideration.
 
Yes, maybe you're right. Somebody with a sensible head rather than my ranty one!!
Has anybody had experience of this behaviour in a horse before. I like to learn about these things in case it ever happens to one of my horses
 
Tricky situation to not know why this horse was doing this. I would have wanted to know why, rather than put on steroids or PTS but I know it is not always that straight cut. Some vets you just trust , others you do wonder. I know of a friends horse that had colic and was told it would die if it wasn't operated on ASAP, finance was the deciding factor here and guess what! she took her horse home and it lived!! she still had to pay over £3000 for the stay at the clinic etc. Just makes you wonder really.
 
Sounds like a brain tumour? The thing is though, if a professional adviser like a vet is talking over such options and reveals any kind of favouritism, an upset client is going to want to follow that "advice". Although if they later regretted it and the vet had been quite impartial, they would not have grounds for complaint.
 
I am completely bemused about what sort of steroids the vet was prescribing in tablet form - ones in a gold plated bottle perhaps? My horse is on 120 steroid tablets a day at the moment and from the vet a bottle of 1000 costs £44, from hyperdrug with a prescription from the vet they cost £27....something doesn't add up about all this.
 
I thought the same as HH, a brain tumour
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. I used to ride a horse, which turned out to have a tumour, and its behaviour was similar (though usually with me on her at the time!).

It is always hard when one is in the situation of having an ill animal. The emotions are usually so pulled tight that they twang with each thought and idea. The vet has to walk the tight line between advising of all the options, whilst taking into account each individual animal and the owner, including ability to deal financially.
 
sounds like a brain tumour to me tbh, horse being pts is the best thing for it, before it hurts anyone or itself any more.
i have known of vets which did things i would have seriously questioned, a very expensive op on a very old chronically bilaterally lame pony, for e.g.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Maybe they are giving the owner all the options rather than a knee jerk reaction of having it PTS.

If you look at it another way I would be more upset if a vet advised PTS and then I found out there were alternatives to try.

Maybe they are dammed either way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ditto.
 
I thought brain tumour, and i think if it had been mine I would have wanted a thorough investigation- vet hospital- or at least an autopsy after death, but then it all costs and if you don't have the money the option is not there. Another theory I had was what happened to an event horse once, it had a crashing fall and the vet suspected it had a cracked vertebrae[sp] but wasn't sure until they xrayed. it was still able to walk ,eat etc. anyway he said if it did it would suddenly flip and throw itself about, and sure enough it did before they could get it x rayed. Must press on a nerve i guess.
 
There is a horse on my yard that has shown similar behaviour to that one. He has has practically his whole body x rayed, gamma scintigraphy, nothing showed up at all, and he was diagnosed as a headshaker. He has been on steroids and as a last resort the owner tried a chinese herbalist. In the end he was 'retired' and the owner was considering having him pts.
after about a year he was ridden again, and now he's back to normal and competing in hunter trials and will BE event next year.
He was headtilting when being ridden and napping. He also would just take off when being led into or back from the field, and gallop mindlessly.
 
It is hard. As others have said in an ideal world I want a vet to offer to discuss as many options as they know of for diagnosis and treatment/euthanasia.

Sometimes even a poorly off family will want to know what is wrong with an animal (we paid for an autopsy on a rabbit when we where technically living 'below the poverty line' ourselves) so just assuming less well off people will want the cheapest option isn't always going to work.

After all the absolute cheapest option is to sell/pts nearly all horses anyone owns - by choosing to keep them at all we are choosing at least a level of expense.

I'd be more upset that neither owner nor vet seem to have sought a second opinion on the underlying cause - guessing that steroids might do something and then just giving up would be my ethical issues with the situation.

Have met some fab vets who offer discounts for strays you take in/unsuccessful ops - they are out there!
 
No it hadn't had a MRI or any other investigation, nor suggested. Interesting theories from everyone -ragwort -hadn't thought of that one, don't know what their fields are like, it's not on my yard you see.
Its funny how a rant shared can make you calm down! Thanks everyone
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Sounds like classic brain tumour behaviour to me and I wouldn't waste time and money with steriod tablets. If nothing else, steriods do very strange things to your temper, so an already upset animal could become very nasty indeed. The trouble is, modern veterinary science has advanced so much and more people consider their horses as pets, not working animals, that vets do have the option of trying drugs or whatever, knowing that the owner is likely to grab at any lifeline. 30 years ago they would have just said, there is nothing to be done, and PTS.
 
If the owners feel they have been given bad advice or treated unreasonably in any way, then they have recourse to to make a formal complaint.

It's certainly an alarming story, in some ways. Are you sure about the drug prices, that seems terribly high??
 
The owner has just accepted the advice and other than being upset about the horse has left it at that. Like many the professional knows best, I'm just a sceptic in my old age but am open to new ideas, I hasten to add.
The price of drugs bowled me over too, but that is what they were quoted for a tub of steroid tablets, that would last a week.
This is an equine specialist practice by the way, they have all the toys in the surgery.
 
I would hope that there is more to this story, that we don't know.

A vet's first duty is to the horse, and not treat at all costs.

You're poor friend must be terribly sad.
 
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