Veterinary Life

ahorseandadog

ahorseandadog

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I've been thinking a lot lately about the veterinary business as my niece is doing her A-levels soon and would really like to be a vet. Her mother is now asking me about what I know (seeing as I have a horse and my niece would like to become an equine vet) so that her daughter is not disappointed in choice of work.

So some questions on their behalf:
-Could you own a horse and be a vet or would you not have enough time?
-Do you receive enough money to own a horse (or other pets) and live decently?
-Is it possible to get a decent estimation on the amount of holidays one gets?
-How long do you have to train to become a vet?
-Do you know anyone that has a horse and competes it whilst being a vet?

And most importantly, is it a job that has more pros then cons? Do you make friends with your colleagues? Do you have good experiences?

Thanks for the answers and if possible could I have some stories about a vet's life.?
 
Others will know more but here's what I know:
It's 5 years to qualify as a vet - more specialist qualifications can been done after.
Initially pay isn't tremendous but enough to get by on depending where and how you live and could well be enough to keep a horse in a low cost way.
Holidays will vary from practice to practice.
There is currently a surplus of vets looking for equine jobs - there was something in H and H recently about this.
It's a hard course so make sure she is committed before applying - it's also hard to get into so have a back up plan.
 
One thing she needs to bear in mind if she has not already done plenty of relevant work experience she needs to get on with it very quickly, assuming she will be applying for next year, as they have so many applicants for the course having a good cv will give her more chance of getting an interview.
Her desire may be to become an equine vet but the training is not specific so this needs to be considered in her application, her work experience and also if she gets an interview, a good range of interests will be better than just equine related experience.
It is very hard work, many do have their own horses and compete, some to a very high level, but they usually have a supportive family to pick up the slack and probably finance most of it as there will be little time to work during the 5 years.
 
Speaking with one of my vets and it's a way of life rather than a job, almost like farming. She does mainly large animal, days are very long inc weekends and bank holidays, she does less riding now than she did pre qualifying but absolutely loves her job and has no regrets about the compromises she makes
 
work experience is so important when training to become a vet (and before), they get accepted onto the course but many do not find the placements they need, she will have to do a veterinary course which is almost all small animals and then specialise in equine and it is very competative, the only vet i know who has their own horses and competes is my own and he is in his 50's and owns his own practice.
It is becoming harder and harder to make a really good wage in the veterinary business as it is becoming more and more of a corporate industry.
I work with vets and it really is a very very stressful job-meeting an owners expectations and working within the limits of their finances whilst doing what is in the animals best interests is really tricky.
can she go and get some work experience now? many youngsters work as kennel staff in order to get some idea on how the basics of the industry work.
 
I'm not actually a vet, I'm half way to being a vet nurse, but have working in several vet practices along the way and friends with a number of vets and vet students so I might be only of a little help.

I know vets who own horses, a number keep them on full livery (only see them the odd evening or at weekends) and I also know vets who keep their horses at home/at the family home and compete/hunt - though this is reliant on having someone who can keep the horses fed and fit during the week and busier times.

On the money front - a new grad wouldn't be able to support themselves and a horse comfortably, sadly the starting pay isn't nearly as glamorous or high as people think. However, if you are particularly good, specialise or move up the ranks within the practice then pay will increase and I know some senior vets and head surgeons with some lovely paychecks - but they do work bleddy hard to get there!

Holidays and hours - depends on the practice you're in, whether it's small/mixed/equine and whether you're on a set contract or have to nights/weekends/out of hours. Think it's pretty similar to lots of jobs really :)

Time - most courses are 5 years for undergrads, often 4 years for post grad, though if you study further afield some of the courses are longer.

I know one vet who shows at top level, several that hunt a full season, a couple that do RC, winter dressage leagues etc etc and a few that are very involved in pony club/hunt committees - though this is very much in lieu of other past times/relaxing/house work/family time etc as it is a very time consuming occupation. Often when starting out there's more work, less time and fitting in competing often means relying on a good help team, handing over the reins (hehe!) to others for things like fittening work, mid week schooling, yard duties.

As far as is it more of a pro or con to be a vet - to be honest, if your heart is in it, then 100% the pros outweigh the cons. However, if it isn't the career for you (it is a vocation more than just a nice idea), then you more than likely will struggle - veterinary work isn't something you can leave at the office. It is very much something you take home with you and certainly isn't a 9 - 5 job. It is a lifestyle as much as anything else and while some aspects are amazing - helping animals, getting to be involved in amazing procedures, etc there are other sides of it that aren't so nice (deaths, PTS, long hours, emotional cases, stressful environment) and if working in veterinary practice isn't your calling - you will more than likely find that it takes its toll on you sooner rather than later.
 
Agree with all the above. Being a vet is a vocation or a way of life, bit like being a Doctor or a farmer as the previous poster said. The vets I work with have very little free time. One of my vets has a share horse that she is only able to ride once a fortnight.

Obviously the shifts will vary from practice to practice, holidays will vary too (my practice is 30 days per annum for the vets). The wage again is dependant on what stage in your career you are, the area you work in and the type of practice. The starting wages are usually quite rubbish for the amount of work you do, and I don't think you would be able to comfortably afford a horse. It is becoming harder to demand a decent wage due to it becoming more corporate, but if you can work yourself up, specialise, work in referral, maybe even own your own practice or become a partner then the pay checks do get larger.

If your niece did own a horse then she may have to consider full livery, as she will most likely always be at work or on-call. I am a vet nurse and work less hours than the vets, I struggle to ride my share horse 2-3 times a week sometimes. You just never know how the day is going to pan out. Sometimes my shift is supposed to finish at 3 or 4pm, I have planned to go ride and I don't actually get to leave work until 8 or 9pm because of emergencies.

The training is 5 years. Has she had any work experience in a vets to see what it is like? If she is interested she needs to start getting as much work experience as possible in as many different areas eg. kennels, stables, vets, farms and lambing, exotics, abattoirs are also a good one sometimes. Training is mostly small animal based and then she will need to specialise in equine.

The job is totally worth it so long as your heart is in it 100% as someone above just stated. If you are not, or want a 9-5 job that you can walk out the door and forget about it to the next day then it is not a job for you and you will burn out very quickly. It is very rewarding, but very stressful.
 
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Our vet does work experience for those interested. I would contact local vets to see if she can go along for a day, she can then ask any questions for herself when there.
 
on the work experience front - try and get her into as many practices as possible - even if its just to see how it works for a day. For uni, when she applies she'll need a lot of relevant work experience - not just in vet practices but they also like to see that students have taken initiative and have gotten experience with other animals too - lambing, calving, pet shelters, dog walking, yard work etc are all going to help her case.

Work experience slots are in high demand - for my course a couple of years ago I needed to get 2 weeks over Easter break tn practice to make up hours and called over 20 practices before I found one that was able to take a student - this is while I was a 2nd year vet nursing student - and I think proacrtices often prioritise vets/vn students over kids looking to see practice so can be tough depending on what part of the country she's loking to get we in
 
At the British vet schools you do do equine alongside the small and farms. You don't need to specialise to do equine, though you often need to do an internship before you're employable. This isn't a specialism in itself, and you can get in to equine via other routes :)
 
Getting Into vet medicine is very competitive, she will need a good variation of experience to show her commitment e.g riding school, vets practice, farming inc lambing, pigs, calving, chicken farming etc etc.
She will need excellent ALevels, or one of the few access courses available. She will need to interview well and show initiative.
Starting salary is no where near what is envisaged, I swapped to medicine as several friends ended up disliking their job and the salary and prospects were better.

She needs to think hard about her career choice, it's difficult to retrain in something else and it's not "all creatures great and small"!!!
However if she can get the right job, or have her own practice to do what she wants to it can be a great career!
 
Vet medicine is the hardest and most competitive course you can apply for!! Sadly good grades along with work experience doesn't always get you there! I know someone who did loads of work experience and got very good grades and still didn't get in !

Holidays vary from place to place


To answer your questions. Unless she could afford full livery then for the first few years. It would be hard. Vets start of on low wages and earn more with experience etc.

5 years then a few more to specialise. Like I say it's very tough. I know always when vets first start out most are in bed for 8pm as there knackered!

They say vets is one of the hardest jobs as quite alot of the time you are putting animals down. It's long hours. I believe 8 til 6pm 5 days a week then you could be on call either in the week or the full weekend and have to be within the area of the hospital and if needs be be able to shoot off at any minute.

In regards to equine. Some 1 year vets get accommodation and car paid for. Some just get accommodation and some just get the car.

I know of vets that have done a 10 hour day been on call that night. Been called out in the night and still get to work for 8 the next day

It's a lot of hard work for a full five years. There isn't much time to be a student as your always studying or on placement I think something like.... 2 months per year if that! And that's split a well.
 
My son Qualified in July and as others have said it is certainly not just a job- you need exceptional A level results, very high motivation and a desire to succeed and absolutely loads of experience- he started his work experience at 15 yo during the school holidays, he did not get accepted the first year of applying so worked on a dairy farm as a full-time milker and herdsman for a year. The amount of theory covered is unbelievable and all exams are very hard, practical work covers small animals, equine and farm and you need to do a required amount in each discipline and can then elect to do more in the final year. Currently- this year jobs are available, but not if you are too choosy and there are way more equine vet applicants than jobs- equine practices do not often want newly qualified vets, they prefer vets with more experience. The starting salaries range from £20-£30k depending on other benefits (eg accomodation/vehicle), hours are usually 8.30am-6pm daily, rotated weekends and rotated on-call. My son had horses whilst he was studying at uni and also had a part-time job working on a dairy farm for the first four years, but it was difficult to fit everything in and also be consistent with his horse, he hunted but did not compete. He put his horse in foal in the final year and is really glad he made this decision as he now has four years in which to enjoy his job and make his way in his chosen career, and will pick up on his horse when he backs the foal at 4 yo. However, he does still occasionally ride for others when he can fit it in but it is nowhere near the commitment of full horse ownership. We know older vets who compete, hunt etc and keep their horses on full livery. Surprisingly the one who does the most with her horse is actually a farm and not equine vet!
 
I was shocked when I looked up average vet earnings. Really not very well paid at all considering the job
 
rara007 said:
At the British vet schools you do do equine alongside the small and farms. You don't need to specialise to do equine, though you often need to do an internship before you're employable. This isn't a specialism in itself, and you can get in to equine via other routes :)
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I think it might vary at different vet schools. The Dick Vet run an online course for potential vet students.
Not all vets work in animal or equine practice, there are some who do scientific / medical research, nutrition, animal health companies, some who work in government advisory work, disease control, epidemiology, at abbattoirs, cattle ranches, studs, racing yards, etc etc
 
Less than minimum wage if you look at it per hour isn't unheard of!

The structure of the courses vary between vet schools but each covers everything :) Frustratingly sometimes if you decide you want to go into something other than practise before your final year!
 
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rara007 said:
Less than minimum wage if you look at it per hour isn't unheard of!

The structure of the courses vary between vet schools but each covers everything :) Frustratingly sometimes if you decide you want to go into something other than practise before your final year!
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Local vet of my knowledge did not diagnose laminitis in one pony till it was too late, and she told the local police my horse [not in my keeping] was in good condition, when in fact his spinal processes were showing and his ribs showed though his winter coat, he had no hay and no water and no hard feed and there was no grass. To me she said "he is a bit light".
A lot depends on getting in to a good practice, many are set up as money factories, and the main skills required are customer relations.
In five years time it is likely the supply and demand will have settled down again, but nothing is certain when it comes to career choice, and though the training is arduous,there in still a lot to learn, which is where finding a good practice is so important, some of the young girl vets round here can't even do teeth properly or have much understanding of horse handling, though I have met older vets who also lack excellent skills in that department.
 
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I know several vets who have horses. (I'm a small animal VN) Most find that due to unpredictable and long working hours they need to have them on full or part livery, possibly with some exercising included. I know a few that manage to compete to a decent level BE and BD, they just need to do a lot of advance organising of what weekends they're working (yes most vets work weekends) in relation to what events they want to compete at. Training is 5 years of intense study where and and all holidays will be expected to be used gaining work experience (no long summer or xmas breaks!) so NOT conducive to horse ownership without parental backup / loaners.
Universities will expect your niece to already have amassed work experience in all areas of veterinary practice ( a decent amount too not just to odd day here and there), farm experience (including experience of lambing season) to include cows, sheep and pigs, horses (eg helping out on / working at a yard or indeed horse ownership) plus potentially experience in places like zoos / wildlife sanctuaries. They will also expect her to have some basic knowledge of current issues in the veterinary world and be able to discuss her views if asked. If she doesn't have a decent amount of work experience then to be blunt it would not be worth her while applying (and in that case she'd be better off spending a gap year attaining such experience before applying... it's a very over-subscribed course normally so standing out is essential to get an interview nvm an offer of a place). Prospectuses are a good place to look for an idea of what's required (some unis will have them online as pdfs)


Holiday wise will likely be whatever the legal minimum amount is with perhaps extra days after so many years service (like most private businesses I'd imagine) and normally days in lieu for weekend / bank holidays worked (unless working in a practice that only opens monday-friday... unlikely if she's looking for equine work as they tend to get stuck with their own OOH work)

As for the is it worth it question... I ask myself that a lot (and the level of pressure and paperwork in my job is a few notches down... mind you so's the pay grade and yes I do struggle financially in that I can't afford to leave home right now despite earning a "decent" wage ) and the answer can vary depending on how the day has gone!
 
I know that she's done some work in Tiggywinkles and helps out the Blue Cross in equine care but I think that's it. Her horse is also in full livery so that's a plus.

Would you recommend a gap year or to go straight to university?
 
I'd advise her to get as wide a range of experience as she can before applying and to have a real understanding of what vets actually do. Standing in a field with your arm up a cow's bum in the pouring rain, dealing with dogs that can be aggressive and trying to examine a horse in pain when it doesn't know you and hates vets. Equine vets have the most work related accidents of any profession and often the injuries are life changing. My friend is a vet (mixed practice) and she events. She takes every day of her holidays to compete, she managed to keep her horse going whilst she was 300 miles away at uni, but her mum owns the yard and rides to a very high standard so did the riding etc. she would not have been able to do it otherwise as a lot of the uni holidays are spent on work experience. with regard to a gap year, it is so difficult to get into uni to do VS that often you need to take a gap year and reapply so some times it's enforced.
 
Post qualification options for equine specialisation are very oversubscribed unless you are fortunate enough to have landed an EMS placement that wants to recruit. For example my son applied to UK and overseas internships (salary approx £10kpa-£15kpa with accomodation) on completion of his course and was told by many that they only accept applicants with a few years post-qualification experience unless they are exceptional. He considered an internship with Sue Dyson at Newmarket and went to visit when he was doing an externship at Rossdales (for which there is a two year waiting list) in his final year. Sue told him that she gets approx 100 applications for 1 position each year, and her specific internship was exactly that- very very specific (orthopaedic surgery- no first opinion, all referral). One of my sons friends has got an equine job (an internship) at his final year placement practice and whilst his opportunities are great, his starting salary is not the best.
My son and his friends have all now got jobs (most were employed before their exams and graduation) and in every case it is a practice requirement that the new vets live in supplied accomodation or within 15 minutes travel time from the practice. We live 20 minutes away from my sons practice and this was considered too far away. Of the new vets that have started locally, three live within 50 yards of the surgery and two live within 2-3 miles- so this needs to be considered too.
 
Of course it varies a lot but a "full time" equine or mixed practice vet would be expected to work at least a 10 hour day 5 days a week plus usually a 1 in 3 or 4 rota, this means every 3rd/4th weekend you are on duty all weekend (days and nights) and overnight 1 or 2 nights a week (working the days either side as normal). Average starting package for normal jobs (ie not internships) is worth about £30k, a good equine/mixed vet might progress to about £40k int he first 10 years, of course partnership offers more earning power but also longer hours. The pay looks ok until you work it our as an hourly rate, then you start to ask why you didn't just go work in Tesco! I get 20 days holiday plus bank holidays or time back in lieu. You will have to sign out of the working time directive in order to work with horses.
Standard course is 5 years and is for ALL species, if you wish to just do horses afterwards you either find a practice that does equine and learn on the job of do an internship and work you're way up through the hospital system. Most of the good internships recommend you spend some time in small animal practice first to learn basic surgical and communication skills.
Vets are an interesting lot, mental and physical health issues are very prevalent. Everyone knows the figures, 5 times the national suicide rate, most dangerous civilian job going etc. But that doesn't account for the day to day addictive behaviours and compassion fatigue. Despite what you read on forums like this vets do it for a sense of satisfaction, feeling that they've done a job particularly well, saved an animal from suffering (even if that means talking the owner into having it pts) or helped an owner with a difficult problem. Of course it is quite depressing when you spend all night trying to save an animal to be accused of being money grabbing and uncaring when you ask for payment in the morning (yes we'd all love to work for free but life doesn't work like that). On the other hand seeing the same animal you saved still trying to kill you when doing it's vaccination 5 years later is pretty awesome :)
There's the general figures here is me
31 years old six years qualified working in mixed small animal and equine practice. My salary is thirty something thousand and my boss pays my RCVS, VDS and CPD fees. I work 10 hours a day 4 days a week and a 1 in 4 rota. My horses are on full livery as finding time to ride is enough of a challenge, I miss having them at home. I compete BE/BD fairly successfully but struggle to have more then one horse in full work at a time. My parents pay approximately half my horse costs. I consider myself extremely lucky to have an employer that views my competing as an asset to the practice, I do help by mentioning the practice name in all commentator info etc. My colleagues are fantastic people but all very tired and fed up of having to skimp on new equipment and work late in order to keep costs and therefore bills down, sharing a set of clippers between 4 vets working in different parts of a building is slightly frustrating!
I will shortly be leaving the equine side of my job behind, I can earn more money for more convenient hours elsewhere and have more time for my horses. I will be extremely sad to leave my colleagues and a few of my clients behind but I have had enough of the day to day stress and lack of appreciation by at least half the clients I see.
 
Polonaise said:
Of course it varies a lot but a "full time" equine or mixed practice vet would be expected to work at least a 10 hour day 5 days a week plus usually a 1 in 3 or 4 rota, this means every 3rd/4th weekend you are on duty all weekend (days and nights) and overnight 1 or 2 nights a week (working the days either side as normal). Average starting package for normal jobs (ie not internships) is worth about £30k, a good equine/mixed vet might progress to about £40k int he first 10 years, of course partnership offers more earning power but also longer hours. The pay looks ok until you work it our as an hourly rate, then you start to ask why you didn't just go work in Tesco! I get 20 days holiday plus bank holidays or time back in lieu. You will have to sign out of the working time directive in order to work with horses.
Standard course is 5 years and is for ALL species, if you wish to just do horses afterwards you either find a practice that does equine and learn on the job of do an internship and work you're way up through the hospital system. Most of the good internships recommend you spend some time in small animal practice first to learn basic surgical and communication skills.
Vets are an interesting lot, mental and physical health issues are very prevalent. Everyone knows the figures, 5 times the national suicide rate, most dangerous civilian job going etc. But that doesn't account for the day to day addictive behaviours and compassion fatigue. Despite what you read on forums like this vets do it for a sense of satisfaction, feeling that they've done a job particularly well, saved an animal from suffering (even if that means talking the owner into having it pts) or helped an owner with a difficult problem. Of course it is quite depressing when you spend all night trying to save an animal to be accused of being money grabbing and uncaring when you ask for payment in the morning (yes we'd all love to work for free but life doesn't work like that). On the other hand seeing the same animal you saved still trying to kill you when doing it's vaccination 5 years later is pretty awesome :)
There's the general figures here is me
31 years old six years qualified working in mixed small animal and equine practice. My salary is thirty something thousand and my boss pays my RCVS, VDS and CPD fees. I work 10 hours a day 4 days a week and a 1 in 4 rota. My horses are on full livery as finding time to ride is enough of a challenge, I miss having them at home. I compete BE/BD fairly successfully but struggle to have more then one horse in full work at a time. My parents pay approximately half my horse costs. I consider myself extremely lucky to have an employer that views my competing as an asset to the practice, I do help by mentioning the practice name in all commentator info etc. My colleagues are fantastic people but all very tired and fed up of having to skimp on new equipment and work late in order to keep costs and therefore bills down, sharing a set of clippers between 4 vets working in different parts of a building is slightly frustrating!
I will shortly be leaving the equine side of my job behind, I can earn more money for more convenient hours elsewhere and have more time for my horses. I will be extremely sad to leave my colleagues and a few of my clients behind but I have had enough of the day to day stress and lack of appreciation by at least half the clients I see.
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I work at a 5 vet practice for the biggest Uk vet corporate company, all the vets work a 40 hr week (in real time) they do a one in 5 weekend rota and have a day off in the week for each weekend day they work, they do no over nights as we don't offer out of hours (very few small animals vets in my area do), the equine vets I use-the owner of the practice choses to field his own out of hours calls 6 nights out of 7 (his employed vet does the other one night a week) and then either visits himself (the norm) or if he is not avaliable he shares out of hours with a few other local vets, so he does lots of hours through choice whilst the vet he employs does a 40hr week.
2 vets have left the small animal practice this year to work for other established vets in the area and both have gone on to do 40hr weeks over a 4 day working week through choice-the vets at work do a tn hour day so have a 4 day working week too.
The work is very stressful/physically tough/everyone seems to think (wrongly in my opinion) that all vets are out to rip them off/I think the wages are shockingly low for the training and work they do and would not encourage anyone into the job.
 
Jim bob said:
My friend is a small animal vet and she said we do same job as a gp but on a quarter of there wages!
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Really ??? Your friend has a very misguided view of what GP's earn - I would hope a vet would be bright enough not to believe the daily mail. I know there are a few high earning GP's, most aren't, likewise to know a few high earning vets, most aren't. The grass is not greener.
 
One of my liveries is an equine vet intern. She keeps two horses and pays for us to look after them 5 days a week, however these days end up being very flexible, so she'll do a few weekday mornings if she has time and we'll do them most weekends so it evens out between us. She finishes late and on call or things might over-run, so we put them to be on an evening. She gets to ride them both maybe once a week if lucky, but often pops up after dark to give them a cuddle and groom if she has a bit of spare time (it always makes me smile when I see her car up there late on an evening, its nice to know she's getting some horse cuddles:) ).
She is very very busy, sometimes only getting a few hours sleep, however she loves her job. Its clear to see how passionate she is about it, she works so so hard. We'll be very sad to see her leave once her internship is over.
 
JLD said:
Really ??? Your friend has a very misguided view of what GP's earn - I would hope a vet would be bright enough not to believe the daily mail. I know there are a few high earning GP's, most aren't, likewise to know a few high earning vets, most aren't. The grass is not greener.
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I know a recently retired GP, he earnt 5 times what I do. Ok he was more experienced and was a partner but still....
 
Polonaise said:
I know a recently retired GP, he earnt 5 times what I do. Ok he was more experienced and was a partner but still....
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A GP that is a partner would of course earn more than a starting vet. I'd expect a GP partner who had retired to have earnt around 50k - but those salaries are lowering. A new grad vet earns similar to a new grad doctor (on average) around 21k.

But doing veterinary is not about the money (same as medicine) - it's more about the way of life.

For those that want to earn a high wage might be better doing business or ICT, they are much higher earners in relation to hours worked in comparison to vet & doctors :)

OP a lot of students from Ireland inc. a friend of mine go to Bulgaria to study vet med, she found it a fantastic course and has had no issues getting work as a vet here & her eventual aim is to do horses :)
 
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