Vets charges

[Boulty]

To be pedantic then the animal being discussed with the "5 stitches" is highly unlikely to have received just 5 stitches. Unless it's the most superficial wound in the world then it's likely that the animal has at least 2-3 layers of sutures (as you can't just leave a big hole in the muscle & expect it to be fine) so we're already on 2-3 times the amount of suturing time.

Assuming this is a contaminated wound it will require extensive flushing out first & any debris such as hair, bits of road, lumps of wood, other animals teeth removing. This can take a while if using recommended flushing volumes (which can be fairly large)

Before this happens the whole area will need clipping & cleaning up & of course the animal will require either sedation (for something superficial that can be quickly stapled) or more likely a full anaesthetic. Of course this means a qualified human monitoring them who knows how to keep them alive & hopefully some monitoring equipment to help. Then the animal will need monitoring carefully as they recover by someone who knows what signs may indicate something is going wrong.

That's without considering medication, suture material, wear & tear on all the equipment used, time to prepare for the procedure, time cleaning up & cleaning all the equipment afterwards.

Prices will vary from place to place of course (& the majority of places will charge a premium on evenings, overnight & weekends) as everyone has different overheads & different ways of doing things (& things they could do that make things nicer / safer for the patient or that can potentially reduce risk / that are nice to have but not essential that they can opt to not do if the bill needs reducing). All businesses have to be profitable to survive & different practices will have different views on what their margins should be & where they want to make their money.

 

[Sandstone1]

Any chance the older ones have retired as they don't fancy being up all hours of day and night for people who think that time is worth £15?

No not really and I know quite a few vets. Also the huge mark up on drugs would actually mean it would work out a lot more that £15.
Some of the young vets I have seen leave a lot to be desired in knowledge and attitude, If I am paying a premium I should expect expert care and I am sorry to say that has not been the case recently.

 

[HashRouge]

I don't begrudge my vet fees at all, and I'm definitely not with one of the cheapest vets in the local area. The only thing that annoys me is the phenomenal mark-up on drugs like prascend and danilon! Fortunately my vet has started doing a price-match recently, so they will match the cheapest price that I find online. Which I have to say does make me think they're still making a profit on the meds, as surely otherwise they'd be better off just charging me their (pretty high!) prescription charge and leaving me to buy online?

 

[some show]

I don't begrudge my vets' fees either, that's what I pay for insurance for (also expensive!). What bugs me is how often I see someone post on facebook asking for money because their dog is injured/has medical needs and they don't have any insurance, oh and they've got three dogs as well. I'd love to have three dogs but I know I can't afford more than one + insurance! If you can't afford either the insurance or the vet fees, why should other people have to finance you!? Sorry, slightly off topic.

 

[meleeka]

I don't begrudge my vets' fees either, that's what I pay for insurance for (also expensive!). What bugs me is how often I see someone post on facebook asking for money because their dog is injured/has medical needs and they don't have any insurance, oh and they've got three dogs as well. I'd love to have three dogs but I know I can't afford more than one + insurance! If you can't afford either the insurance or the vet fees, why should other people have to finance you!? Sorry, slightly off topic.

I don’t have insurance either, but I totally agree, expecting someone else to pay for your irresponsibility is just wrong!

 

[Jenko109]

I don't begrudge my vets' fees either, that's what I pay for insurance for (also expensive!). What bugs me is how often I see someone post on facebook asking for money because their dog is injured/has medical needs and they don't have any insurance, oh and they've got three dogs as well. I'd love to have three dogs but I know I can't afford more than one + insurance! If you can't afford either the insurance or the vet fees, why should other people have to finance you!? Sorry, slightly off topic.

This 100%.

I dont begrudge paying my vet fees, mostly because I have insurance for that very reason. If someone chooses not to have insurance then they should have a back up plan, be that savings or credit card or whatever.

Makes my blood boil when people go begging for money for treatment which would have been covered if they had bothered to take out insurance. If you can't afford to take out insurance or fund your vet fees via other means, then don't have a pet.

 

[poiuytrewq]

I think my vets are pretty good, I’ve always been happy enough with them but especially after reading some of these!
When my old dog was on heart meds it was my vet who suggested I buy online and offered a prescription (for free as I remember!)
More recently Jess, her medication was cheap so I just bought it from them without questioning.
Spud our lab cut his leg shooting once and had the cut cleaned up, stitched and bandaged and it came in at less than £400. He’s insured but can’t complain at that even if he wasn’t.
They have been bought out by a big company though, I only found that out this week so that’s sad. Hoping it won’t change.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

The begging for funds to pay vet's fees really angers me too. Both my dogs are insured and I really miss having a little terrorist around, but I simply can't afford a third pet insurance bill every year.

Here in Ireland we can no longer insure our horses for vet's fees, I have an emergency fund and put money away every month, but I have nightmares about something hugely expensive cropping up that I might struggle to find funds for. But that is my problem to deal with, not for others to subsides my animals for me!

 

[poiuytrewq]

The begging for funds to pay vet's fees really angers me too. Both my dogs are insured and I really miss having a little terrorist around, but I simply can't afford a third pet insurance bill every year.

Here in Ireland we can no longer insure our horses for vet's fees, I have an emergency fund and put money away every month, but I have nightmares about something hugely expensive cropping up that I might struggle to find funds for. But that is my problem to deal with, not for others to subsides my animals for me!

I’ve read about that before, well that people don’t insure horses in Ireland. I wasn’t aware you can’t. Why is that? That would terrify me!

 

[Cinnamontoast]

When my loan horse broke his olecronon and was subsequently pts, one item on the bill astounded me-the vet saying he’d helped to load the horse. In fact, the owner bribed him up the field and the yo nearly got splatted by him stumbling up the ramp. The vet’s contribution? A slap on the arse, for which he charged £50. I saw this and told him what an absolute disgrace it was to charge this. He told me he ‘had to put something’. I told him he didn’t and I’d seen what he did. Took it off the bill, probably because I was very determined and emotional.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

I’ve read about that before, well that people don’t insure horses in Ireland. I wasn’t aware you can’t. Why is that? That would terrify me!

We could until a couple of years back, then the only company that offered insurance for vet fees for horses, Allianz, withdrew their cover from all horse owners. I believe their is a company that offers straightforward death insurance but that is not what the majority of horse owners here want. Nothing we can do, just have to suck it up and hope we have enough funds if it all goes pear shaped. I have nightmares about all mine going down with something at the same time - not sure I could financially cover that to be honest.

 

[rara007]

The way it’s going in the uk we may not be far behind…

 

[EarsofaSnowman]

But we do pay for our own medical care via nhs contributions

Of course we do (some more than others). But because we don't see the bill at point of use, people have it in their head that it is "free", take it forgranted, and b*tch about the cost of other services.

 

[EarsofaSnowman]

No not really and I know quite a few vets. Also the huge mark up on drugs would actually mean it would work out a lot more that £15.
Some of the young vets I have seen leave a lot to be desired in knowledge and attitude, If I am paying a premium I should expect expert care and I am sorry to say that has not been the case recently.

If you don't like the care you receive then change vets. If that's not easy to do, then maybe people do need to pay more for a premium service.

Out of hours comes at a cost, and is massively difficult to plan for. As indicated by a previous poster, one night you may have one emergency, another you may be full all night.

I'm not a vet, but thinking £20 out of hours surcharge is fair imo beggars belief, and I'm angry on behalf of vets. The ones I've met work massively hard, care about what they do, and have to deal with some unpleasant clients.

 

[meleeka]

I'm not a vet, but thinking £20 out of hours surcharge is fair imo beggars belief, and I'm angry on behalf of vets. The ones I've met work massively hard, care about what they do, and have to deal with some unpleasant clients.

I feel sorry for vets too. The practice I go go certainly do care about what they do and work very hard, it’s just the huge company that they work for that do not. There is one vet I won’t see (and have actually thought about leaving the practice in case I’ve got no choice one day) who it is clear, is just trying to make money for the practice. She recommended treatment to me which two others at the practice who I trust had previously said weren’t recommended for my dog and weren’t necessary. Every time I’ve seen her she’s wanted to do something in additional and my bill is alwsys higher than usual when i’ve seen her. I’m inclined to think that’s orders from above which the other vets don’t push. As I say, my issue is with CVS, not my actual vets.

 

[Jenko109]

Oh I do recall one occasion which was absurd quite some time ago.

Back when I was quite young, probably about 18, my dog damaged her dew claw. It was all bent in the wrong direction. It just needed cutting (which these days I would just quickly do myself) but I wasn't confident doing so as had never been responsible for a dog before.

I took her into the vets who, I'm not even kidding here, offered me to take her for the day to treat her under anaesthetic.

 

[Cinnamontoast]

Oh I do recall one occasion which was absurd quite some time ago.

Back when I was quite young, probably about 18, my dog damaged her dew claw. It was all bent in the wrong direction. It just needed cutting (which these days I would just quickly do myself) but I wasn't confident doing so as had never been responsible for a dog before.

I took her into the vets who, I'm not even kidding here, offered me to take her for the day to treat her under anaesthetic.

To be fair, my vet lightly sedated to chop Bear’s, the quick was visible and he was limping (bit of a wuss) but there was no suggestion of overnight, unlike the big 24hr chain who wanted to keep him for ‘fluids’ overnight after 3 stitches in a pad (and thought he was a cocker -he was about 25kg at the time!)

 

[Clodagh]

Oh I do recall one occasion which was absurd quite some time ago.

Back when I was quite young, probably about 18, my dog damaged her dew claw. It was all bent in the wrong direction. It just needed cutting (which these days I would just quickly do myself) but I wasn't confident doing so as had never been responsible for a dog before.

I took her into the vets who, I'm not even kidding here, offered me to take her for the day to treat her under anaesthetic.

Why I like farm vets, they do it under sedation if they can, I suppose they think in a cow and sheep groove!
I never mind sedation. I think that is pain relief and safer for dog and vet.

 

[YorkshireLady]

one of the other issues is that as we are lucky and have free at the point of service healthcare - which others have said and this def means we perhaps under value costs for healthcare for ourselves or the animals.

 

[StableMum]

The ones I've met work massively hard, care about what they do, and have to deal with some unpleasant clients.

This is so true.

 

[Aru]

The cost is only going to rise.

Traditionally vets have been independently owned and generally owned by the people who worked in them.
Now the majority of small practices are corporate run and run to make a profit....but it's not quite that simple.

Peoples expectations of care has changed and the standard of care required has risen leading to more expensive equitment being required in even basic practice. Plus higher demand for higher level treatment means more work ups and on hands treatment per animal.
So time in workup per animals is increasing and expectation of care level is becoming similar to that of human medicine.
Add to that extra animals being added through covid due to the surge in per ownership...while at the same time the staff level dropped...meaning demand is very high. Stress levels rise particularly due to current staffing issues. But demand is high. When demand is high and you hit capacity....prices rise to try and manage demand.

Add in that massive staff shortage and burnout issue.
That is starting to drive salaries upwards to try and tempt and retain staff, especially in the ooh centres...which still hasn't worked well as they are stressful to work in for multiple reasons(owners dislike of the cost of care and blaming the staff on the ground being a massive one)
And you'll see a fees rise again to try and keep staff and continue to replace the ones they burn out.

As profits diminish on the sale of drugs and in-house medications(as people buy these online to try and keep their personal costs lower) To make back that lost profit margin the cost of other professional fees and services that cannot be taken over by another industry will rise. Vets cannot compete with pharmacies for costs of drugs.
They dont have the buying power or the warehousing ability and are required to buy only from wholesalers. It's likely going to be charge a script fee and send people off to get meds unless it's drugs we must have in house...and to keep those in stock they will be charged for at a point to make sure it's profitable to do.
Vets are a small business model(corporate or private- makes no odds) you have to make money to keep the business viable.

There's no way to bring the costs down as the model of practice is changing.
It may shift into gp only. Emergency only and specialist only...but I don't see that actually reducing costs.

Even adding more vet graduates yearly doesn't help that much- though it may drive the new grad wages down again- but as a massive amount of graduates vets to burn out and they leave the profession in the first 7 years.... that won't really help.
As we lose the middle experienced generation the new grads also loss on mentors and older vets to guide and teach....which leads to more burnout and stress in the younger generation who are often placed difficult situations for their experience level with no support of mentorship available.

It's going to be an interesting shift over the next few years.....but nothing I predict or have experienced would suggest anything other then costs rising for pet care.

Oh and add to that people often don't understand the cost of health care and resent paying to treat their pets as it's not an anticipated expense for many people...and animals tend to get sick despite that.
So financial discussions are often emotive and full of accusations of vets being money hungry and blaming staff who have no control over pricing for the costs and peoples inability to pay to treat their pets. Most often seen at emergency centres but likely to become more of an issue in gp land over the next few years as costs rise.So that's likely to continue to get worse and lead to more burnout and suicide given then personailites who tend to be drawn to this field of work...which keeps numbers of workers in demand and costs high.

I don't tend to advise youngsters to enter the profession at the moment. Future outlook isn't great despite the change to a marginally higher base wage.

 

[meleeka]

The cost is only going to rise.

Traditionally vets have been independently owned and generally owned by the people who worked in them.
Now the majority of small practices are corporate run and run to make a profit....but it's not quite that simple.

Peoples expectations of care has changed and the standard of care required has risen leading to more expensive equitment being required in even basic practice. Plus higher demand for higher level treatment means more work ups and on hands treatment per animal.
So time in workup per animals is increasing and expectation of care level is becoming similar to that of human medicine.
Add to that extra animals being added through covid due to the surge in per ownership...while at the same time the staff level dropped...meaning demand is very high. Stress levels rise particularly due to current staffing issues. But demand is high. When demand is high and you hit capacity....prices rise to try and manage demand.

Add in that massive staff shortage and burnout issue.
That is starting to drive salaries upwards to try and tempt and retain staff, especially in the ooh centres...which still hasn't worked well as they are stressful to work in for multiple reasons(owners dislike of the cost of care and blaming the staff on the ground being a massive one)
And you'll see a fees rise again to try and keep staff and continue to replace the ones they burn out.

As profits diminish on the sale of drugs and in-house medications(as people buy these online to try and keep their personal costs lower) To make back that lost profit margin the cost of other professional fees and services that cannot be taken over by another industry will rise. Vets cannot compete with pharmacies for costs of drugs.
They dont have the buying power or the warehousing ability and are required to buy only from wholesalers. It's likely going to be charge a script fee and send people off to get meds unless it's drugs we must have in house...and to keep those in stock they will be charged for at a point to make sure it's profitable to do.
Vets are a small business model(corporate or private- makes no odds) you have to make money to keep the business viable.

There's no way to bring the costs down as the model of practice is changing.
It may shift into gp only. Emergency only and specialist only...but I don't see that actually reducing costs.

Even adding more vet graduates yearly doesn't help that much- though it may drive the new grad wages down again- but as a massive amount of graduates vets to burn out and they leave the profession in the first 7 years.... that won't really help.
As we lose the middle experienced generation the new grads also loss on mentors and older vets to guide and teach....which leads to more burnout and stress in the younger generation who are often placed difficult situations for their experience level with no support of mentorship available.

It's going to be an interesting shift over the next few years.....but nothing I predict or have experienced would suggest anything other then costs rising for pet care.

Oh and add to that people often don't understand the cost of health care and resent paying to treat their pets as it's not an anticipated expense for many people...and animals tend to get sick despite that.
So financial discussions are often emotive and full of accusations of vets being money hungry and blaming staff who have no control over pricing for the costs and peoples inability to pay to treat their pets. Most often seen at emergency centres but likely to become more of an issue in gp land over the next few years as costs rise.So that's likely to continue to get worse and lead to more burnout and suicide given then personailites who tend to be drawn to this field of work...which keeps numbers of workers in demand and costs high.

I don't tend to advise youngsters to enter the profession at the moment. Future outlook isn't great despite the change to a marginally higher base wage.

Most of that applies to any small, skilled business that provides a service. My OH has a business that is mainly maintaining coaches. We are down to two staff from 4, because there just isn’t enough skilled people to employ. Because of this, wages in the industry are rising steeply. Our costs have also risen but the difference is we can’t just pass those costs on because there is still plenty of competition in his industry and customers just can’t or don’t want to pay a premium rate for a premium service. We make enough to cover the bills, but don’t hang on to any hope of it making us rich. That’s not why we do it, thankfully!

 

[Aru]

Most of that applies to any small, skilled business that provides a service. My OH has a business that is mainly fixing buses and coaches. We are down to two staff, because there just isn’t enough skilled people to employ. Because of this, wages in the industry are rising steeply. Our costs have also risen but the difference is we can’t just pass those costs on because there is still plenty of competition in his industry and customers just don’t want to pay a premium rate for a premium service. We make enough to cover the bills, but don’t hang on to any hope of it making us rich. That’s not why we do it, thankfully!

Agreed this is a small business issue and the reason they are all a challenge to run.
Covering bills isn't enough to allow a business to continue to grow and keep a decent staffing level though.
With the retention rate for staff already a massive issue just making enough to pay bills isn't going to be an suitable business model for most independent vets(though im sure plenty will try it,vets have not being know for being wonderfully business savvy in the past) They have already discovered the challenge of trying to recruit against corporate offers in the USA I suspect the UK will face the same issue soon if not already. Already the independents who try to do their own ooh are beginning to see the struggle in recruiting.

But they do have the option of selling out to corporate to make their money I guess.
Corporate business only continues to run of there's a profit to be made.

I just don't see any way costs are going to go down in the longterm personally...corpratisation doesn't seem like its going to reduce the costs in the longterm. That's not their business model.

 

[meleeka]

But they do have the option of selling out to corporate to make their money I guess.
Corporate business only continues to run of there's a profit to be made.


I just don't see any way costs are going to go down in the longterm personally...corpratisation doesn't seem like its going to reduce the costs in the longterm. That's not their business model.

That’s what’s happened to all but one of our local vets. That leaves the customer with lack of choice and prices being able to be set how they choose (you can’t just vote with your feet because there’s no other option but CVS here). The one independent practice is overrun with people wanting to register and have now closed their books to new clients for the time being. They don’t do their own OOH either and seem to keep staff long term.