Vets failed to treat appropriately WWYD

[penelope-pitstop]

I am sorry for your loss.

I would write a complaint and change practice as you feel the vet didn't take your concerns seriously and you know the horse best, as well as being the person who pays the bill.

However, the symptoms of trying to urinate but not could be many things, such as kidneys. I think running other tests was reasonable. I also remind myself, when things have not gone to plan, that I pay the vet for their time and experience, not to be infallible.

Thank you, I do understand that the symptoms can of course mirror other things and vets are not infallible. We have had other misdiagnosis before, I suppose previously it has just been expensive rather than catastrophic so easier to remain understanding.

Given the symptoms came on so suddenly, directly following being given antibiotics, it should have at least raised the question in the vets mind that it may be related to that, especially when colic is apparently a known side effect of doxycycline. In combination with the fact this was a horse that never went off their food, usually drank and urinated more than is typical (kidney functions and full bloods had been tested several times over the years due to this, including earlier this year) and she hadn't passed any significant amount of dung or urine in 24hrs. Their only basis for her not being in sufficient pain was because her heart rate wasn't raised enough, despite the fact we knew from experience that her heart rate didn't typically rise as a pain response and she was also already on a high dose of pain relief for the same thing the antibiotics were for. Her entire demeanour and other symptoms very much showed she was in pain and something had gone significantly wrong very quickly.
She had some complex issues so we had extensive clinical history and the associated good understanding of what is normal or not for her, the vet refused to listen or take into account or consider any of that relevant.
This same vet had the gall to gleefully tell me that her heart rate was definitely raised by the point she could barely stand up, was sweating profusely and shaking all over with the effort to remain on her feet.

As I said I fully accept, given how rapidly she went from being just very concerning to past the hope of any treatment, there was a high likelihood we were going to lose her. My primary issue is the refusal to consider options, attempt any relevant treatment and with the awful attitude and downright unkind handling she was subjected to at their hands. I suspect that if I felt they had tried their best to do the right thing and it had failed at least it would have been easier to live with, we might have been able to spare her the agony she went through at the end and it may have been possible to respect their abilities going forward.

 

[skint1]

I am so sorry for your loss, and I echo the feelings of others, most definitely raise with the practice, for me this would be particularly important due to the attitude of the attending vet.

 

[sportsmansB]

While everyone makes mistakes, I think I would be focussing on the unacceptable attitude of the vet in this case perhaps more so than the misdiagnosis.

Vets are always advising us to know what is normal for our horses and when something should be a red flag, but if they are then dismissive of this information and treat us like idiots that is pointless.

 

[Chianti]

It might make you feel better if you write to the vets' practice setting out your concerns, but realistically, the practice are likely to read it and say "it's one of those things" and shrug it off. I wrote to Liphook to complain once when their treatment ended in a lot of unnecessary suffering to my horse and didn't even get a reply - and they were very much in the wrong and had ignored my concerns which turned out to be right.

Unless you threaten to take legal action, you'll probably just get a standard response. I would do it anyway though, as it will make you feel better. I waited a few weeks before I wrote to make sure I was in a rational frame of mind so I didn't write something emotional.

I also made a complaint to Liphook a few years ago. I did get a reply but it was basically 'we're Liphook and we don't care what you think' - case closed. I compared that with the attitude of my one man band vet that I'd used in the past. I wasn't that happy with the way his office staff had handled a query about my bill and he phoned me up to ask what the problem was and that he would look at their processes again. I think most practices now are part of big veterinary chains and they just don't care. I've been told that some of the big chains give their road vets 'targets' to meet in terms of revenue which might explain the number of tests that are recommended.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

A similar thing happened to one of our old dogs a good few years ago now: won't go into details but basically if the vet had put the poor old gal down decently in the afternoon as I'd asked I wouldn't have had to get the miserable blighter out of bed to put her down later on in the early hours. I never forgave that vet practice for that.

So sorry this has happened.

I wonder whether the Royal Vet College would be the people to reach out to about this? Tho' as someone else has said, as with Doctors, they'll all tend to probably stick together like the proverbial sh!t.

 

[[153312]]

I would go straight to RCVS with the practice name as well as that of the vet.

 

[Marigold4]

I also made a complaint to Liphook a few years ago. I did get a reply but it was basically 'we're Liphook and we don't care what you think' - case closed. I compared that with the attitude of my one man band vet that I'd used in the past. I wasn't that happy with the way his office staff had handled a query about my bill and he phoned me up to ask what the problem was and that he would look at their processes again. I think most practices now are part of big veterinary chains and they just don't care. I've been told that some of the big chains give their road vets 'targets' to meet in terms of revenue which might explain the number of tests that are recommended.

Yes, I think these big chains are a disaster for horse welfare. I have changed vets and am very happy with my smaller vet practice. When my horse was at Liphook there seemed a complete lack of understanding of what was in the best interest of the horse rather than the best interest of their bank balance. It would take a lot for me to let one of their vets near my horses again. Vets have so much power when they suggest a course of treatment and it's so tempting to think that they know best. I should have advocated for my horse better and insisted stopping treatment but hindsight is a wonderful thing.

 

[Patterdale]

On the theme of smaller practices, ours isn’t perfect but I always remember what the practice owner said to me when I rang to complain about the receptionists dreadful attitude. He said ‘oh I know, she’s a nightmare isn’t she. I’ll have a word but she won’t change’
Changed nothing material for me but I just thought, how human. I now feel validated and can forget about it! Would never happen in a big commercial practice.

I’m really sorry for your loss OP.

 

[[153312]]

for this reason I only use independent practices now - it means travelling, but it's worth it if it keeps the grasping hand of capitalism out of my animals' medical care!!

 

[tristars]

never forget if you are not sure about what is going on get a second opinion

so sorry OP for what has happened

i would be on the phone to the practice or another practice while they were still there if i was not happy with attitude or treatment, fortunately we have 4 hospitals very close, and i have met some very super vets, the [i am very concerned] type who go all the way and can offer superb expertise, which only goes to sharpen the contrast with the few seriously dodgy ones, who should give the job up

 

[nagblagger]

Must admit I had substandard care for my horse at Liphook from the 'juniors', nurses, vets and reception staff, their attitudes were appalling. The senior vet, who was in charge of my horse's surgery, was excellent and did respond to my concerns and I know words were said to the juniors. However my animals will not be returning there.

 

[expanding_horizon]

Must admit I had substandard care for my horse at Liphook from the 'juniors', nurses, vets and reception staff, their attitudes were appalling. The senior vet, who was in charge of my horse's surgery, was excellent and did respond to my concerns and I know words were said to the juniors. However my animals will not be returning there.

I have only ever had positive experiences at Liphook (and RVC) both were very good. Liphook across 5 visits (including one with a friend's horse who was uninsured and on a budget), were very understanding.

 

[eggs]

Very sorry that you lost your horse in such awful circumstances.

A few years ago I had to have one of my horses pts in very distressing circumstances but fortunately the vet was already at the yard so at least we were able to put him out of his pain quickly. Basically the vets had forgotten to send his biopsy off for analysis and as a result we lost quite a few weeks when he could have been treated. He was discharged from them over the weekend (they wanted the stable free for the following Monday) having had colic, colitis and pneumonia whilst with them and he died a few hours later.

I wrote to the practice owner who I knew fairly well setting out my complaint about the handling of his case. She did phone me back with a half apology admitting that they had maybe made a mistake but no way was she going to go into writing. I suppose it did make me feel a bit better to have aired my grievance and I hope that they improved their internal processes.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

The point of it would be more to get things off your chest, rather than making a difference to the vet concerned. You will probably get a "lawyers' reply" that is carefully worded to avoid anything that might sound like an admission of making a mistake.

We call that an 'I'm sorry you are upset letter'!

 

[Marigold4]

Must admit I had substandard care for my horse at Liphook from the 'juniors', nurses, vets and reception staff, their attitudes were appalling. The senior vet, who was in charge of my horse's surgery, was excellent and did respond to my concerns and I know words were said to the juniors. However my animals will not be returning there.

The attitude of the nurses was terrible. I turned up on Christmas Day to check my horse and her stable was filthy, no food and her bandage had slipped opening up the wound to an infection. I know it was Christmas but the horse needed 24 hr care, regardless of festivities.

 

[Sossigpoker]

You will not get any admission of a misdiagnosis or incorrect treatment but I'd certainly make it very clear that the vet's attitude and manner was unacceptable and caused you much distress. I'd also make it clear that I would not use that practice ever again and just for the hell of it , would complain to the RCVS as well , although that will not leas anywhere as they close ranks at a blink of an eye.

 

[Pedantic]

Sorry you lost your horse in such an awful way.
I have had mixed experience's with different vet's, some good some bad, I have had to get a bit sharp with a couple and a receptionist over the years, only recently I had to tell one in no uncertain terms about the particular situation I wasn't happy with, I don't know what the best course of action in your situation would be, but from what you have said, I would be contesting the invoice, and looking for another vet.
There is a reason Dr's and Vets are called a "practice", Practicing on us.
Vets have to remain calm and can't be emotionally involved, but one would expect a sympathetic attitude to an animal suffering, and the upset it's causing it's owner.

I personally think due to how clever vet's have to be, that quite a few are on the spectrum to one degree or another, and depending on what degree, how much empathy they have, also as far as I know and am led to believe, there is a disproportionate amount of suicide in the profession, has to be an underlying reason for this, and "maybe" a reason for the attitude of "some" vets, just my perception.
I tend to remind myself, and the vet/receptionist when the need arises, who is paying their wages, the only advice I can give is, keep this in mind when dealing with vet problems.

 

[Chianti]

We call that an 'I'm sorry you are upset letter'!

I call it a Tony Blaire apology as in 'I'm sorry that you feel that way' rather than actually apologizing for making someone feel that way.

 

[94lunagem]

Vets are always advising us to know what is normal for our horses and when something should be a red flag, but if they are then dismissive of this information and treat us like idiots that is pointless.

This is a very good point.

 

[Time for Tea]

Sorry for your loss and for the trauma both yourself and the horse suffered.

I would go two avenues with formal complaint using the governance complaint process. Send a factual non-emotive letter outlining the lack of professional process followed as well as the attitude of Vet and send to both Practice lead and Veterinary governing body in your country.

You need to outline in your letter that it is a formal complaint and you are expecting a formal response addressing how the breach of duty and breach of code of conduct will be addressed.

Agree with this. I am so sorry, how distressing. To lose your horse in pain and feel you have no proper help is awful.

 

[Lois Lame]

We recently lost our beloved horse to colic.
Unfortunately despite 3 seperate vet visits in a 24hr window, 2 out of hours due to weekend, the vets failed to accurately diagnose the fact that one she was colicking and two the antibiotics she'd been prescribed by them the previous day were the most likely cause.
The vet didn't take the colic seriously until she was beyond all help, instead medicating, taking samples, drawing blood and sending off testing for a host of unrelated things and treating me like an overreacting timewaster. This meant that she ended up suffering tremendously in her last few hours and the horrible reality of that will haunt me for a very long time.

I've had one case of colic, and it was a bad one. The pony didn't make it. He also suffered horribly, despite everything given that could have been given. (I didn't want colic surgery.) That sort of pain cannot be knocked out. Even a quadriplegic will feel pain when the problem is in the gut, apparently.

 

[Lois Lame]

I'm so sorry for your loss. Having been through something similar earlier this year with a dog not a horse, I would say do whatever will help you find peace with the situation. Ours was at a large referral vets. It was out of hours, he was under their treatment for diagnostic tests which ultimately caused him a partial gastric torsion and his death... the treating vet actually looked my husband in the eye and said with a straight face she couldn't find anything wrong with him as he lay writhing on the floor in agony with a hugely distended stomach. In the end, we fed back verbally through our own vet who now no longer refers any animals to them. We're 9 months on and I could probably put pen to paper to them now. Just about. But I'd rather just vote with my feet and focus on the happy memories we have of our special boy.

Did the vet mean that she knew there was a huge problem, but didn't know the exact cause?

The pony I lost to colic also did not have a definite diagnosis. There was no blockage that could be seen. He was given nothing down his throat as it might have added to the problem. The vet told me that his suspicion was it was caused by a lipoma, because of his age (about 18) his condition (a little overweight) and maybe the fact that I told him that I had noticed his droppings over the last several days were not the decent quantity that one expects to see, but was maybe half the size. (Guessing. I cannot remember the exact size.)

Lipoma seemed to fit. I'd never heard of them before. The evening before the colic, he had been his normal, happy self. Nothing showed up on ultrasound. He was a great vet though, and I absolutely trusted him, and his manner was wonderful. If I'd been with a vet I hadn't trusted or had a rapport with, how dreadful that would have been. Sorry, this is very badly written and all over the place.