Vets guide to weight of rider V horse!

TGM said:
Sounds very odd to me! How can you work out the weight a horse can carry as a percentage of it's own bodyweight when the horse is overweight itself? A horse doesn't increase its weight-carrying ability when it piles on extra fat (in fact it probably decreases it)!
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dafthoss said:
Finally some one else who thinks this!!!

When I was at college it was deemed that a welsh d that was hugley over weight (belonging to the also hugley over weight YM funnily enough ;)) was a better weight carrier for being large. My logic that he is carrying a large proportion of what he could carry already ment he shouldnt have a larger rider was completly dismissed :eek::rolleyes:.
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An overweight horse already has additional strain on heart, lungs and joints, I find it ridiculous to suggest that they are capable of carrying a heavier rider because they are overweight themselves, you are just adding to their troubles!
 
So I was wondering about this the other week, but too embarrassed to ask on here...

When I was a teen and weighed about 9st I had a wonderful 14.3 connemara, which I think was fine. I was about a size 10, maybe an 8.

In my early twenties, i weighed between 9 1/4 and 10 and rode a very chunky 14.2 cob and think that was just about ok. I was a 12 at heaviest a 8-10 at skinniest.

I have returned to riding after children and am now 10.5-11st :o and about a size 12-14. I am guessing I now need something really chunky over 15.2, for fear of squashing poor ponio completely?

I would love to get another connemara in a few years and have a mum and son share, but I don't think I am realistically every going to be 9st again, but will probably hover between 10-10.5.
 
I'd go quite a way to agreeing with what Devonshire Dumpling says/was told.

I'm a 14 stone rider, and over the years vet after vet has said that people seriously unerestimate the weight a horse can comfortably carry. This does NOT mean that your're going to steeplechase on your daughter's 13.2 pony!!

But the Dales ponies, from where I was brought up in Northumberland, were expected to carry 16 stone each of lead (one 8-stone pannier either side) from Alston on the moors to Newcastle upon Tyne. That's 27 miles, and they were capable of trotting much of the way. Welsh ponies (and not Section Ds, were ridden by Welsh shepherds and farmers. Do you think they all weighed 8 stone? And the horses that founded our great heavy breeds were war horses, carrying up to 25 stone (man + armour) in battle.

I think people have become hyper neurotic - probably the same ones that have their horses rugged with the temperature in the 70s that i saw today on my dog walk. Slipped my hand under one rug - cooking!! And the final issue is that a heavy rider who sits well is a lot better than a small one who has a brick bottom!
 
Devonshire dumpling said:
Their is a general ignorance about the causes of morbid obesity and i do think that in the horse world many people take offence that someone big rides, and they use welfare as an excuse for their own prejudices,
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Codswallop...and I say that as someone who weighs a tad more than I should and with a father who died due to his morbid obesity severely compromising an emergency surgery...

As for rest of it... Um... Codswallop springs to mind again... :)

I returned a seriously gorgeous 14h loan pony that I'd had for my kids but was a perfect partner for this very rusty returner... Being too tall/leggy/rubbish rider etc didn't bother me - the fact I was bang on her 20% weight tolerance without tack and I'd have been riding her day in, day out was my issue... My TB is 15.2 and I don't buy into the idea he'll collapse if anything over 8 stone sits on him - I've had Mr Dragon on him to pootle about with quietly in the school with no concerns at all and I've given my daughter's Sec B some 'naughty pony' short schooling - but as a regular riding horse, it would be a no...

Particularly if said horse had a health issue that already put extra pressure on its joints, heart, circulatory system etc...
 
I don't give a toss what anyone says about how much horses can carry - nobody of 24 stone is ever going to sit on any of my horses!
 
Julia0803 said:
So I was wondering about this the other week, but too embarrassed to ask on here...

When I was a teen and weighed about 9st I had a wonderful 14.3 connemara, which I think was fine. I was about a size 10, maybe an 8.

In my early twenties, i weighed between 9 1/4 and 10 and rode a very chunky 14.2 cob and think that was just about ok. I was a 12 at heaviest a 8-10 at skinniest.

I have returned to riding after children and am now 10.5-11st :o and about a size 12-14. I am guessing I now need something really chunky over 15.2, for fear of squashing poor ponio completely?

I would love to get another connemara in a few years and have a mum and son share, but I don't think I am realistically every going to be 9st again, but will probably hover between 10-10.5.
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My 14hh native fell pony would cope fine with 10 - 10.5 stone :)
 
TGM said:
Sounds very odd to me! How can you work out the weight a horse can carry as a percentage of it's own bodyweight when the horse is overweight itself? A horse doesn't increase its weight-carrying ability when it piles on extra fat (in fact it probably decreases it)!
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Surprisingly, when the RDA came to view a horse for sale at my yard this was exactly the way they calculated his carrying capacity, and took the view that he could be allowed to be a bit fatter as it would increase his load bearing capacity
 
I think that's rubbish. My vet agreed when I said I think my weight gave my horse a sore back. Que gym and already lost a stone, 3 to go! I am one heck of a lot lighter than that and horse is 640 17hh well built warmblood. Just IMO though.

Edited to say horse has awful feet but has had no medical condition everything has been scanned sound on flexion too. He's having 3-4 months off to rest his back and go barefoot on the advice of my farrier.
 
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Yikes 24stone, think she needs to let her horse ride her rather. Be a bit more realistic wouldn't it! Dread to think what vet said this!
 
A vet wrote that???

I am scared. Sooooooo... when a horse is fat, it's bone density and size increases so it can carry it's own excess weight then extra weight on top of that!!!

Wow, a horses skeleton is really something else..................
 
JFTD said:
I don't think deer ponies are expected to carry their hander as well as the stag :eek: leastways, not the ones I've encountered!
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Correct, and very few deer men ever rode anyway, according to all I've read. Not sure how you'd get an adult stag and a person on a deer saddle :eek: :D Plus the stags are gutted before transport so will reduce the weight that way too :)

Now I just need to find myself a 20 stone horse to ride for several hours every day :rolleyes:

And a heavy rider may well ride better than a lighter rider, but 24 stone is still 24 stone! I do think that people underestimate how much a fit, healthy horse can carry, but at some point it must become a welfare issue IMO.
 
tallyho! said:
A vet wrote that???

I am scared. Sooooooo... when a horse is fat, it's bone density and size increases so it can carry it's own excess weight then extra weight on top of that!!!

Wow, a horses skeleton is really something else..................
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Maybe it's because the horse was metabolically compromised that made it more of a weight carrier :confused: :eek:
 
I've copied this from Horsetalk.co.nz which contradicts what the vet has said-

Researchers in the US have bad news for overweight horse riders. A study has found that horses who have to carry between 25 and 30 per cent of their bodyweight have more physical problems related to exercise than those who carry 20 percent or less.

Horses carrying 30% body weight showed a significant increase in muscle soreness and muscle tightness scores. The changes were less marked when they carried 25% body weight.

Dr Debra Powell and colleagues at the Ohio State University Agricultural Technical Institute, Wooster, conducted a study in which horses, carrying up to 30% of body weight, were monitored performing a standardised ridden exercise test in an indoor school arena. After five minutes active walk to warm up, the horses were ridden at a trot (3m/s) for 4.8km, followed by 1.6km at a canter (5m/s). This exercise schedule was chosen to simulate a 45-minute work period of work typical of an intermediate-level riding school horse.

The researchers measured heart rate, plasma lactate concentration and creatine kinase. Lactate is produced in the muscles during exercise. At low levels of work the body can metabolise it and so levels in the plasma remain low. As the work level increases the rate of lactate production exceeds the body's ability to remove it and so concentrations rise. Creatine kinase (CK), an enzyme present in the muscles, is released into the blood as a result of some types of muscle damage.

An animal massage therapist assessed muscle soreness and muscle tightness before and after exercise.

The findings seemed to support the view that horses can carry up to 20% of their body weight without difficulty. There was little difference between all the measures when horses carried either 15% or 20% of body weight. However, when the weight carried increased further, the scientists started to detect differences.

When horses carried 25% or 30% of their body weight their heart rate remained elevated for longer after exercise. The serum CK level was higher immediately after exercise, and 24 and 48 hours later, in horses carrying 30% body weight compared with those carrying 25% or less. There was no change in CK when horses carried 15 and 20%. Plasma lactate levels were higher immediately after exercise and 10 minutes after end of exercise, in horses that carried 30% of their body weight.

The study also investigated whether the horse's conformation affected its weight-carrying capacity. The scientists looked at the horse's height, circumference of the cannon midway between knee and fetlock, and width of the back (loin) behind the saddle - between the last rib and pelvis.

They found that horses with wider loins showed less muscle soreness and tightness when carrying 25% and 30% body weight.

This was a small study involving only 8 horses. The scientists suggest that further investigations into the value of loin width as an indication of weight carrying ability would be worthwhile
 
24 stone is as much as chubby me and my substantial sized bf put together. There is no way in this world that I would put him alone on my MW 16hh horse.

I think the above is just a load of BS :p
 
I'd be uncomfortable with someone that size on my 17.1hh clydesdale x let alone something 15hh ish! sounds like someones wishful thinking, trying to persuade themselves its ok. When in their heart of hearts they know its loose the weight of get rid of the horse!
 
touchstone said:
An overweight horse already has additional strain on heart, lungs and joints, I find it ridiculous to suggest that they are capable of carrying a heavier rider because they are overweight themselves, you are just adding to their troubles!
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This was my point (I'm useless at writing it down properly :o). But it fell on totally deaf ears which is worrying as its what they were teaching students :eek:. Funnily enough it was the showing bunch that sprouted it as if it were gospel :rolleyes:. I gave up knowing that I wasnt to big for any thing they had at the time so didnt have to worry but I do feel sorry for the poor lad as he had just been broken in at the time.
 
Julia0803 said:
I have returned to riding after children and am now 10.5-11st :o and about a size 12-14. I am guessing I now need something really chunky over 15.2, for fear of squashing poor ponio completely?
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You'd have been fine for the 14h pony I had to give back... I'm 5' 8" or so and closer to 12st... I'm not hissy about weight - just reasonable... I'll hop on the Sec B for a few mins as he needs some reminding about aides but I wouldn't ride him out and about for prolonged periods or do anything dramatic...

Devonshire dumpling said:
Arghhhh when people keep quoting my original text it looks like I am behind it double arghhhhhhh
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I know...sorry...I realised when I re read my post... :o
 
This is a wind-up, yes? It is too appalling to even think about the pressure per square inch you would be getting under the saddle with 24 stone. And the size and strength of the horse will not make the flesh of his back immune to the consequences of tissue dying through excessive pressure. We are talking about flesh and blood here, not a piece of machinery :mad:.
 
Does common sense apply to horse riding or do we just drop all that at the barn door?
 
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I think it is all made up lies. So the vet thinks a horse can work all day every day for the rest of its life? I wouldn't even ask a horse to do that with six stone on its back. It's a load of bull. There appears to be a campaign at the moment. Some kind of movement by morbidly obese 'riders' who think we should all think it is okay to put 20 plus stone on a horse. It is not okay and it never will be ok. It is cruel, plain and simple.
 
touchstone said:
I've copied this from Horsetalk.co.nz which contradicts what the vet has said-

Researchers in the US have bad news for overweight horse riders. A study has found that horses who have to carry between 25 and 30 per cent of their bodyweight have more physical problems related to exercise than those who carry 20 percent or less.

Horses carrying 30% body weight showed a significant increase in muscle soreness and muscle tightness scores. The changes were less marked when they carried 25% body weight.

Dr Debra Powell and colleagues at the Ohio State University Agricultural Technical Institute, Wooster, conducted a study in which horses, carrying up to 30% of body weight, were monitored performing a standardised ridden exercise test in an indoor school arena. After five minutes active walk to warm up, the horses were ridden at a trot (3m/s) for 4.8km, followed by 1.6km at a canter (5m/s). This exercise schedule was chosen to simulate a 45-minute work period of work typical of an intermediate-level riding school horse.

The researchers measured heart rate, plasma lactate concentration and creatine kinase. Lactate is produced in the muscles during exercise. At low levels of work the body can metabolise it and so levels in the plasma remain low. As the work level increases the rate of lactate production exceeds the body's ability to remove it and so concentrations rise. Creatine kinase (CK), an enzyme present in the muscles, is released into the blood as a result of some types of muscle damage.

An animal massage therapist assessed muscle soreness and muscle tightness before and after exercise.

The findings seemed to support the view that horses can carry up to 20% of their body weight without difficulty. There was little difference between all the measures when horses carried either 15% or 20% of body weight. However, when the weight carried increased further, the scientists started to detect differences.

When horses carried 25% or 30% of their body weight their heart rate remained elevated for longer after exercise. The serum CK level was higher immediately after exercise, and 24 and 48 hours later, in horses carrying 30% body weight compared with those carrying 25% or less. There was no change in CK when horses carried 15 and 20%. Plasma lactate levels were higher immediately after exercise and 10 minutes after end of exercise, in horses that carried 30% of their body weight.

The study also investigated whether the horse's conformation affected its weight-carrying capacity. The scientists looked at the horse's height, circumference of the cannon midway between knee and fetlock, and width of the back (loin) behind the saddle - between the last rib and pelvis.

They found that horses with wider loins showed less muscle soreness and tightness when carrying 25% and 30% body weight.

This was a small study involving only 8 horses. The scientists suggest that further investigations into the value of loin width as an indication of weight carrying ability would be worthwhile
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Lets not try... Jesus.
 
planete said:
This is a wind-up, yes? It is too appalling to even think about the pressure per square inch you would be getting under the saddle with 24 stone. And the size and strength of the horse will not make the flesh of his back immune to the consequences of tissue dying through excessive pressure. We are talking about flesh and blood here, not a piece of machinery :mad:.
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agree...I wince just thinking about the pressure per square inch and the strain on joints. :mad:
Sorry op, your vet sounds wrong and barking mad.
 
That research found by Tallyho is a really good attempt at a scientific study and it really backs up what everyone has said.

I have always understood that it is width over the loins that determins whether a horse is a weight carrier or not, and I also think that we tend to underestimate what a horse can carry. I always bear in mind that a TB point to pointer is expected to carry 12.7 or even 13 stone round a 3 mile steeplechase at a gallop.

I don't know about a fully loaded soldier. For the army a horse was simply a means of transport and although the horses were obviously cared for and of value, ultimately they were expendable and they weren't that interested in them having a long life.

The weights quoted from the OP do seem rather extreme.
 
littlelegs said:
Really, I don't believe a word of it, probably something she dreamed up waiting for her pies to cook.
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Troyseph said:
Yikes 24stone, think she needs to let her horse ride her rather.
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I'm not one for textspeak acronyms but these both made me pmsl :D

As for the woman in the OP's article - she needs to be really careful a farmer doesn't spot her horse-worrying.
 
rhino said:
Correct, and very few deer men ever rode anyway, according to all I've read. Not sure how you'd get an adult stag and a person on a deer saddle :eek: :D Plus the stags are gutted before transport so will reduce the weight that way too :)

Now I just need to find myself a 20 stone horse to ride for several hours every day :rolleyes:

And a heavy rider may well ride better than a lighter rider, but 24 stone is still 24 stone! I do think that people underestimate how much a fit, healthy horse can carry, but at some point it must become a welfare issue IMO.
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I can confirm that the deer ponies are not ridden by their handlers, which are usually young trainee gamekeepers that are terrified of the ponies, which the Highlands use to their full advantage of!
 
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