Vets have given up! Any one got any ideas.

[Loudabell]

I posted a while ago about my Irish draft mare. She came to me in October and straight away developed an abscess in one hoof and 2 weeks later one in the other front hoof. To cut a long story short in 7 months neither has ever drained!

They have never behaved like text book abscesses in that they have never dried up. She is sound though, until the pressure builds and they drain again. She had a bump at the coronary band but it has grown down with the hoof and she has never crowned at the coronary band with either abscess. Both drain from the toe.

We've had tonnes of X-rays and the vet last month dremelled both hoofs and re xrayed to ensure he'd taken away all the infected abscess. We've had blood tests for Cushings and have ruled out laminitis. Although a Keratoma was suspected in one the vet has now ruled it out. Although X-rays show some very,very slight mottling of the pedal bone he does not considerit to be osteomyelitis.

The op has not worked at all. After 10 days of Baytil antibiotic and sugardine packing she is still producing puss. It seeps through the hoof wall at the top of the large gashes that have been dremelled away in each hoof. One hoof produces standard puss, the other a foam like puss!

The vets now have no idea what to try. They've suggested a referral for an MRI but my insurance won't touch it. What the hell could this be?????????

I have a horse that is presently quite happy, sound for now but with massive holes in her feet that constantly produce puss.

She has shoes on now to try to cover the holes from the bottom but has been barefoot for the 9months previous. Her old owners always had her shod. her feet are kept clean and covered with vet wrap and duct tape. Turn out for an hour a day in a dry paddock.

If this can't be fixed what do I do?

Does any one have any suggestions as to what the cause of all this can be?????

I'm desperate for ideas as the vet has ran out, so have any other vets I talk to.

 

[Maesfen]

Have you spoken to a decent remedial farrier at all? Don't know which area you are in but someone might know of somebody that has good knowledge of this type of thing.

 

[twinkle]

Why won't your insurance touch an MRI ? Hope you find out what it is

 

[Beausmate]

Have you had cultures grown from the pus? Could be you need a different antibiotic. What are you feeding her?

 

[Box_Of_Frogs]

I'd get a second opinion from a specialist horse clinic/hospital.

 

[popularfurball]

I would also be looking at diet and supplements - ir had good results with immuplus and restore by global herbs for immune problems.

Abscesses are usually a sign of low immune system/ vit/min deficiency.

 

[Goldenstar]

Have you identified the bug ? This is key.
I would be doing some research about where I would take her for a second opinion.
Not sure why the insurance won't allow an MRI ? Or what the vets thinks it might show.
I think if it where me I would be looking at the second opinion seriously now but it needs to be the right person/ clinic .
I would also be saving some pennies even pounds! As I would want to be prepared to have to go it alone if need be.
If its not a bug that's resistant to the drugs you have given then is there still a foreign body in there or some necrotic tissue that's probally why the vets thinking MRI but you need to be clear about this then go back to the insurance company and discuss it with them.

 

[irish_only]

Second the remedial farrier. I had a problem last year that my very good vets were going around in circles with. I asked my super dooper farrier to have a look, and the job was sorted in a very short space of time, and oh my were his fees soooo much less than the vets

 

[YasandCrystal]

My OH is a farrier says that the 'foamy pus' could be bone serum seepage. He has had similar on laminitics in the past with a foamy type seepage, but he is flummoxed by the other foot.

He did ask if there was no evidence of any foreign body ie. a tiny speck of grit or dirt in the foot capsule from the xrays that could be causing the infection?

Could you stand the feet in salt water? Might that help cleanse them out safely?
I would personally be straight onto a herbalist to get a detox formula for the horse, but other than the above I can offer no more advice.

 

[amandap]

Sounds dreadful. I second getting a second opinion.

Your post brought a story I've been following of a youngster with repeated abscessing to my mind. He has been helped greatly with strict attention to his diet and specifically mineral balancing to his forage. This may or may not be relevant but I thought I'd throw it into the mix as something to consider. Here's a link to one of her threads. http://uknhcp.myfastforum.org/about3730.html&highlight=teddy+minerals

That forum is now closed but if you do have any questions on the importance of diet and minerals for some horses ask here. http://phoenixhorse.myfastforum.org/index.php

I hope you get someone that can help. Fingers crossed for you and her. x

 

[Flame_]

MRI costs are not as ridiculous as they used to be, could you afford to get one foot MRI-d? Would other investigations at a hospital be covered on the insurance or are you totally out of funds/ are the affected feet already excluded?

If you have some funds for further investigations, speak to Sue Dyson. Explain the constrictions and see if there is scope for her to help.

Post your question on this forum, with pictures of the feet and what's happening if possible,

http://www.horseshoes.com/forum/index/16-farriers-helping-horse-owners.html

Its a brilliant source of information and if anyone's seen this problem before it will be amongst a worldwide collection of farriers!

Otherwise if your horse is in pain and you are out of money and options, the kindest thing to do is to make the decision quickly.

 

[Twigben]

Could it be Pemphagis??

See this article...

http://www.hoofcare.com/article_pdf/HoofcarePemphigusKnot7D4CD.pdf

Hope you get to the bottom of it

x

 

[Rose Folly]

One of your correspondents asked if there could be some minute foreign body causing at least one of the abscesses. Weonce had a very old (31) livery pony here who eventually had to be moved to a new home. At the time I didn't have concrete, just a hardcore track. In his old age the walls of his feet were moving away from the sole, and tiny bits of the hardcore were working their way in, and then causing problems. He recovered fully and never had another abscess once he was just on grass and concrete.

It sounds horrible, and worrying. Do hope you can find the answer.

 

[Miss L Toe]

Grrr, I too am looking for an answer, horse has been barefoot for a year, but out of work recently, we did two miles on a gritty track, and a week later he was hopping lame, intermittent, then I poulticed and drew pus out of frog. Vet had a look, and said, nothing much there, so used hoof testers and started to pare away the sole, we got an a lot of blood and some pus.
White line seems tight, and was all pared back to inspect carefully.
That was nearly two weeks ago, and he is poulticed at night, still getting same amount of pus [a little] out of the frog and out of the sole, I assume abscess is high up and is draining but not healing.
He is on micronised linseed with minerals and Fast Fibre, skin is excellent condition generally.
I have had to turn him out every day, I know it is risky but he would turn flips if I kept him in full time.
Spoke to vet, no definite suggestions.
I might try Hephar Sulph, a homeopathic remedy, but always difficult with a horse as they always seem to be eating [not recommended with remedies]
He is sound and I want to sell him as he is turning in to a field ornament.

 

[hunteress]

I second Farrier as well also shoe her as if her soles are brused this will make her lame anything to do with the foot I go straight to my farrier and not the vet !!

 

[Alec Swan]

I second Farrier as well also shoe her as if her soles are brused this will make her lame anything to do with the foot I go straight to my farrier and not the vet !!

I'd go along with this, as a good farrier is all so often of more use than a vet. I'd also give some thought to the use of Hydrogen Peroxide. It's the best of disinfectants. I'd also shoe her, as another has suggested.

Apart from that, I haven't a clue.

Alec.

 

[amandap]

Here's a couple of articles you might find helpful. http://www.hoofrehab.com/horses_sole.htm
http://www.hoofrehab.com/diet.htm

 

[Yertis]

It could be coincidence but, having been plagued with recurring abscesses for 3 years, I started supplementing copper on the reccommendation of next door farmer who said our area, and therefore her grass and hay, were low in copper and he always supplemented his cattle. Since last August when I started, once the abscess she had cleared, have not had another to date since I fed it to all 6 have also noted that I haven't had the usual winter thrush problems either and black TB has lost the reddish tinge her winter coat usually shows.

 

[Loudabell]

WOW, you have all been more helpful than any of the vets that have come out.

i've taken as much advice on as possible!

she's now on ImmunoPlus and Copper. Her X-rays have been sent to the equine Hospital in Liverpool, my farrier is coming out next weekend to assess her again and on Thursday we are moving yards. the floor outside my stable on my resent yard is terrible so we are moving to a private yard that is all concrete, not brick rubble! i'm also researching loads to see if she is on the best possible diet, Oh and i have some Homeopathic remedies on order!!!!!!

you've all given me a little ray of light through all this and i determined to get her right! She's sound at the moment so fingers crossed i can get her sorted.

i'll keep you all updated and if anyone thinks of anything else let me know.


Thank you

 

[Miss L Toe]

It could be coincidence but, having been plagued with recurring abscesses for 3 years, I started supplementing copper on the reccommendation of next door farmer who said our area, and therefore her grass and hay, were low in copper and he always supplemented his cattle. Since last August when I started, once the abscess she had cleared, have not had another to date since I fed it to all 6 have also noted that I haven't had the usual winter thrush problems either and black TB has lost the reddish tinge her winter coat usually shows.

You had all the symptoms of copper deficiency, particularly the reddish tinge to coat/mane. In your case it might be worthwhile getting forage analysis plus advice [forageplus or others], and a mineral mix made up for your horses as there is a lot work required to balance minerals.

 

[soloequestrian]

My mare had pedal osetitis a couple of years ago. We never found out what caused it, but it seems likely that something went up her white line and never came back down - when we initially dug for the abscess, there was a distinct track, and also lines around her foot where the pus had drained but not exited. The treatment for her was an operation to remove a small part of her pedal bone. Have you had someone experienced with this condition look at your x-rays? My local vets, who are great but have an ancient x-ray machine, initially thought it might be keratoma. Once she had x-rays done at the horsepital, they could see that it was an infection. It would be odd to have the same in both feet, but if her hoof quality plus the surface she has been on have lead to foreign objects tracking into both feet, it could possibly be the answer. The surgeon who did my mare was not willing to treat with antibiotics only - he said that the infected bit of bone needed to go. I have heard of other horses being treated medically, but perhaps your horse is the same as mine and the infection needs to be removed?
The upside is that my girl is fine now!

 

[Loudabell]

Thank you for all your responses. My mare was admitted to Leahurst today with pedal osetitus I both front feet! she'll have the infected bone removed tomorrow.

So Glad we finally have a answer but I just pray now that tomorrow goes ok and the recovery isn't as horrific as I'm imagining it to be!

Because of your advice I was confident enough to tell my crap vet that enough was enough andi wanted a referral!

Thank you xxxx

 

[HazyXmas]

Well done & best wishes for a good outcome.

Keeping everything crossed for you

 

[Waltzing Matilda]

I would recommend going on epauk and finding ur local equine podiatrist who can work.with the vet. U can get and excellent product from equine podiatry supplies. Co.UK called cleantrax for £15, u need long boots or water proof sack to soak In for about 40 mins. It is a product that is used in hospitals on broken bones especially those that come through the skin. It is non necrotising (unlike hydrogen peroxide), so doesn't kill new or healthy tissue. Not many vets seem to know about it.

Hope u get something sorted. It all.sounds awful. X

 

[jeeve]

One of your correspondents asked if there could be some minute foreign body causing at least one of the abscesses. Weonce had a very old (31) livery pony here who eventually had to be moved to a new home. At the time I didn't have concrete, just a hardcore track. In his old age the walls of his feet were moving away from the sole, and tiny bits of the hardcore were working their way in, and then causing problems. He recovered fully and never had another abscess once he was just on grass and concrete.

It sounds horrible, and worrying. Do hope you can find the answer.

This - my son had recurring abcess in mouth, was not until he had the two teeth pulled they were due to fall out in next few months anyway) that the infection cleared up. I think something must be providing a continuing irritation.

However, that said - getting mineral supplements can make a big difference I recomend Pat Coleby's Natural Horse Care. She was born in UK but lives in Australia. She has corrected many health issues in livestock by ensuring that they are on a correct balanced mineral/vitamin supplements (short term), but her specialty is in advising how to balance the soils in pasture.

 

[Queenbee]

Fantastic news that you have a disgnosis and are well on way to treatment. Fingers crossed for swift recovery

 

[fruity]

I echo getting in touch with Sue Dyson,she is amazing!

 

[Oberon]

This poster (I can't remember her username on here) posted an update on her youngster after a few months on balanced minerals via ForagePlus.

http://ihdg.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=gh11&action=display&thread=121943&page=1

The vets were suggesting originally either shoes (even though he is only 18 months old) or PTS after he had 20 abscesses but his owner has had no problems since starting the minerals

 

[SpottyTB]

I second Farrier as well also shoe her as if her soles are brused this will make her lame anything to do with the foot I go straight to my farrier and not the vet !!

I agree with this, a farrier is trained in the foot and lower leg for 5 years and even after they qualify they should be attending seminar's (i believe they HAVE to attend a certain amount) throughout the year - to keep up to date with different things.

A vet is only trained for so long in the leg and foot but no way as in depth as a farrier is.. go to your farrier, get him/her to have a good look and hopefully they will know the way forward..


ETA - just read your reply, so glad you've been able to find the answer to your horses problem. Good luck