Vets. Newly qualified or experienced?

[Wundahorse]

I agree with most in that I would allow rookie Vets to do routine stuff. However,give me experience anytime for more complex issues.
Our Vets insist all newly qualified Vets have a 2 year internship under the supervision of experienced staff.

 

[windand rain]

I prefer older experienced vets but technically speaking the newly qualified should be better. Their information is more up to date, they have recently been trained to handle difficult animals they are younger and stronger but in general this is not the case and sadly seems to be worse with the little girls. It is a shame as I am certain they are ultimately going to be good vets perhaps som go on to do small animal practice

 

[Andalucian]

Glad I'm not alone. I won't have newly qualified vets out at all, fed up with wasting my time and money on them. My rule of thumb is that the vet has to be at least as old as me! Experience in the field is so important, the equine training is pretty scant it seems in the 5 year vet school training, only after about 5 years in equine practice do they seem to become worth their charges. I think they should specialise in their chosen species for the final two years in college to mitigate this problem.

 

[poiuytrewq]

Glad I'm not alone. I won't have newly qualified vets out at all, fed up with wasting my time and money on them. My rule of thumb is that the vet has to be at least as old as me! Experience in the field is so important, the equine training is pretty scant it seems in the 5 year vet school training, only after about 5 years in equine practice do they seem to become worth their charges. I think they should specialise in their chosen species for the final two years in college to mitigate this problem.

Haha! I was saying to my daughter earlier there are actually a few vets at the practice I really rate. It's a case of saying to the receptionist I don't mind a, b or c but I don't want X y or z!! Which is awkward so basically we decided I should go in and ask for a vet who looked older than I was and certainly no one younger 😂

 

[Tyssandi]

I Know what you mean - but experienced ones can do wrong too.

we put so much trust in these people and reply on them to come up with a cause once we give them the symptoms. I gave my vet who I had used many years a ring as my horse was footy and lethargic, the practice came out and said oh it is the asthma. They never check the pulse or anything, all they did is check the breathing, so a year went by with on and off lethargy and £££ on ventapulmin.

The next year the same and again the same reasons and more ventaplumin, this time she went lame not long after so I got them back and this vet checked her pulse and said Lami. The end result is I lost my horse of a lifetime - a needless loss.

It was nothing top do with her asthma - the footiness was the lami and the lethargy was from the discomfort of the lami. I blame them for the loss of my horse, and the aftercare was sucks.


Needless to say I switched practices for this very reason along with other issues relating to livery horses. So it is not just new vets it is old ones too

 

[MurphysMinder]

Glad I'm not alone. I won't have newly qualified vets out at all, fed up with wasting my time and money on them. My rule of thumb is that the vet has to be at least as old as me! Experience in the field is so important, the equine training is pretty scant it seems in the 5 year vet school training, only after about 5 years in equine practice do they seem to become worth their charges. I think they should specialise in their chosen species for the final two years in college to mitigate this problem.

The trouble with this idea (which I suspect is something many vet students would like) is that the majority of jobs for vets who want to do equine are with mixed practices , so they do have to be capable of dealing with all species. My daughter has spent the last 2 years doing an equine fellowship, and is planning on spending a further 3 years doing further specialist equine work. Whilst doing this she will be on a considerably lower income than her friends who graduated at the same time and are working in small or mixed practice, so there is very little incentive.

 

[popsdosh]

I am very fussy about vets of course when you call out of hours you take who you get but the next morning I expect any further stuff to done by the vet I chose .

I am sorry I know why you say that and understand. One day if we all act like that there will be no experienced vet to call on. More and more practices are coming up against this issue.
Luckily my practice have young vets who come out however I have the head vets mob no so if im concerned I have a quick chat with them ,however we all had to learn one day.

 

[Slightlyconfused]

My horses vets are fab. One of mine is only a few years older than me, I'm 30 and the other is only two years younger than me and is a fantastic vet.
Brilliant with everything, will listen to out of the.box ideas, treats the horses as individuals and respects owners choices. And we have a.good giggle too as they both get my sense of humour.
The other vets that work in the practice are great too, some used to.be based near us but have moved to the other clinics the practice owns but always remember us if we call on emergency and they have phone.

I've had an older more experienced vet and he mucked up my horses diagnosis and had a new vet that was so.up himself I.had to have words as.we had a.ceru poorly dog. He didn't seem to get the idea it's my choice what treatment they have not his and he soon wiped off his smirk when the practice owner stopped to have a chat with me and ask how the family was.
He has seen.me grow up and known.my mum, dad and grandparents for years.
So I would not dismiss a new vet.

 

[paddy555]

I am sorry I know why you say that and understand. One day if we all act like that there will be no experienced vet to call on. More and more practices are coming up against this issue.
Luckily my practice have young vets who come out however I have the head vets mob no so if im concerned I have a quick chat with them ,however we all had to learn one day.

I agree we all have to learn however I simply cannot afford, financially, to pay for their education nor risk my horses. It cost me 2k when my horse went into horse hospital with colic. My own, very experienced vet, was on holiday. I have a feeling that if she had been present we may have been able to manage the condition at home.

 

[WelshD]

I agree we all have to learn however I simply cannot afford, financially, to pay for their education nor risk my horses. It cost me 2k when my horse went into horse hospital with colic. My own, very experienced vet, was on holiday. I have a feeling that if she had been present we may have been able to manage the condition at home.

Part of me thinks that newly trained vets will be open to new treatments and really up to date with progress

A larger part of me thinks that more widespread insurance on horses has led many to be a bit too free and easy with their suggestions and that combined with lack of confidence could result in higher costs as you experienced

That said as I stated earlier I welcome new vets but it doesnt take much for me to lose confidence in individuals

 

[cloverpenny]

Recently I got my Mare's annual vaccinations done and had her teeth done at the same time. I had one of the Partners of the practice come out to do it and he also brought with him a student vet who had a go at rasping Clover's teeth while being watched by the senior vet. My one gripe is that when updating my Mare's vaccination record's he didn't up date her passport so I now have contact the surgery to find out when I can get that updated.

 

[Boulty]

My horse is erm complicated shall we say... In theory I'd be happy to have whoever was free come and do his vaccs but he requires sedation for his teeth doing and makes sense to get it done at same time and if we're messing with teeth then I like to use one of the vets who has an interest in this area (Plus he's a horse who doesn't tolerate faffing, he needs injecting quickly or he starts kicking off if he realises what's going on). He's also got a few issues going on (sidebone & mild soft tissue damage on MRI in navicular area and also now has cushings) so again any lameness or illnesses are best dealt with by someone who is aware of everything he has going on and what's we're doing about it all.

All that said I'd absolutely be more than happy for students / newly qualifieds to shadow whoever's treating him and practice most things under supervision (as long as they're not practising getting an IV as he has form for rearing...) and obviously I'd be glad of whoever could come out in an emergency!

My old pony was a saint to do anything to but again has a few ongoing health issues. Was happy for whoever to do most things to him as he was ok with a bit of messing about but if it was anything relating to things that had been going on for years then made sense to stick with the same guy.

 

[TwyfordM]

I trust the older more experienced vets generally, but there are the odd few younger ones that have their heads screwed on and can see the bigger picture!
I remember having two vets out when my mare went down with laminitis aged 6, I was sure there was an underlying cause, suspected cushings. Younger vet suggested might be a good idea to test for it and had suspicions himself but when head vet came out for a check up two weeks later just dismissed it as 'very unlikely' and said no point testing!
She was eventually diagnosed a few years later aged 10.

Although had a different young vet out that didn't seem to know one end of a needle from another and couldn't handle a 12hh welsh throwing herself around the stable!? Told me she might need to sedate her to do a vaccination... If cant get a flipping vaccination in her how do you expect to sedate her!? She's in a confined space you hardly need a dart gun... She did eventually man up but I don't understand what she thinks she's going to do if a 16hher throws a wobbily!

 

[oldie48]

My friend is a vet, she's tiny but she's a very experienced horsewoman and quite blunt. She's sometimes told by owners that she's too small to handle their horse as it's very bargy and badly behaved, her response is to tell them to teach it some manners! Owners have to take some responsibility for how their horses and ponies behave with the vet but vets need to develop good handling skills too!

 

[pansymouse]

I pay an extra distance call out fee to use a practice who have such a high reputation that they have the pick of vets and would never risk their name by using an inexperience vet. I changed to them after my local practice sent a vet out to deal with a cut mouth who appeared to have gained little more than her Brownies pets first aid badge.

 

[paddy555]

My friend is a vet, she's tiny but she's a very experienced horsewoman and quite blunt. She's sometimes told by owners that she's too small to handle their horse as it's very bargy and badly behaved, her response is to tell them to teach it some manners! Owners have to take some responsibility for how their horses and ponies behave with the vet but vets need to develop good handling skills too!

I much prefer smaller female vets. They don't seem to antagonise the horses as much as large men. Dealing with a horse is knack and confidence not strength. My vet is female, small, experienced and has the blood in the tube before the horse has even worked out what is happening! Those sort are worth their weight in gold.

 

[TheHairyOne]

I guess where I am I am lucky, as I have a choice of a fair few (5 that I can think of off the top of my head within a half hour) of large animal/equine vets practices.

That being said had my share of good and bad vets. The emergency call out to a sliced bulb that resulted in a 2 year old TB in plaster (is he insured?) was not a shining moment for the young vet scenario, but then I was also a fairly new owner and these days would have a far more practical conversation! However, I got lucky, found a good individual vet. Actually moved practices to follow her and have met 2 of the other vets now (inc the senior partner in a horrible emergency) who have all been brilliant.

I think I am probably quite lucky.

 

[spacefaer]

I've been very lucky in having top notch vet practices everywhere I've lived. I think older vets can make errors based on assumptions, younger ones due to lack of experience.

My OH and I have approximately 100yrs horse knowledge between us so are bound to have had more experience on occasion than a newly qualified vet.

What I do prefer however, is a male vet. Of the few poor experiences I've had with vets, it's been younger females. .....

 

[Horsewithsocks]

I too have had bad experience with local vets. Two in particular who think they know everything - told me there was nothing wrong with him - there was. I now have a very nice young vet, but as others say, I would not let him do joint injections or anything major - he does not have the experience. Anything major and I have to take horse to the fantastic hospital specialist who diagnosed his problem and can see the tiniest problem at about 100 yards! Unfortunately this is quite a long an expensive journey but worth it!

 

[Sandstone1]

I've now got a very needle phobic pony due to a young vet being unable to do a intravenous injection correctly.
While everyone has to learn and gain experience it's not really on to continually jab about and cause pain and distress.

 

[Buddy'sMum]

Years ago one of my (then) practice's senior vets brought a newly qualified vet with him to x-ray my pony's hoof (suspected fractured pedal bone). They both watched the pony hopping out of the stable and newbie vet (who was a rude, pompous twit) set to setting up the x-ray machine. I waited until he was about to press the button before I asked him why he was x-raying the wrong hoof (pony was non-weight bearing so it wasn't exactly difficult to work out which was the problem hoof). I never saw him again.

A few years later, a senior partner at the same practice scanned my mare not in foal, it was getting late in the season so I brought her home from stud. Mare got bigger and bigger over winter so I asked my vet to scan her again, he examined her and said she definitely wasn't in foal and told me off for questioning him. Guess what? She had a colt.

 

[Golden_Match_II]

Just to clear up the amount of experience new grad vets will have, they have to do 24 weeks seeing practice at vets' practices whilst at vet school. Approximately a third of this will be in equine - although if you're more interested in doing equine when you qualify you're likely to do more than this. So this involves observing the vets in pre-clinical years, and then actually doing the procedures under the supervision of a senior vet in your clinical years.

When in 4th and 5th years you spend 12 weeks rotating around the equine hospital in various fields of equine medicine and surgery. As well as this you also undertake a 3 week elective in an area of your choice - likely to be equine if you want to be an equine vet. Throughout vet school you will not just be examined using written tests, but by practical exams where you perform a clinical skill, often multiple times throughout the year.

I just say this to reassure people that new grad vets are not fresh out of the classroom - they have had a variety of experience under the supervision of a variety of vets, including some of the best in the country.

ETA: most newly qualified equine vets will also more than likely have been around horses their whole lives, because once upon a time they were normal people like you who had horses and gained a lot of experience from that.

 

[madlady]

Just to clear up the amount of experience new grad vets will have, they have to do 24 weeks seeing practice at vets' practices whilst at vet school. Approximately a third of this will be in equine - although if you're more interested in doing equine when you qualify you're likely to do more than this. So this involves observing the vets in pre-clinical years, and then actually doing the procedures under the supervision of a senior vet in your clinical years.

When in 4th and 5th years you spend 12 weeks rotating around the equine hospital in various fields of equine medicine and surgery. As well as this you also undertake a 3 week elective in an area of your choice - likely to be equine if you want to be an equine vet. Throughout vet school you will not just be examined using written tests, but by practical exams where you perform a clinical skill, often multiple times throughout the year.

I just say this to reassure people that new grad vets are not fresh out of the classroom - they have had a variety of experience under the supervision of a variety of vets, including some of the best in the country.

ETA: most newly qualified equine vets will also more than likely have been around horses their whole lives, because once upon a time they were normal people like you who had horses and gained a lot of experience from that.

Thanks for that - I think that makes some of the blunders I've seen even worse if they've had more hands on experience that I initially thought.

 

[Golden_Match_II]

Having said that, I'm in my third year of study and plan to do an internship after graduating - mainly because if you think its bad for you when a new vet is lacking confidence, imagine how they feel! I'd rather gain confidence in a more controlled environment before being out on the road alone haha!

 

[southerncomfort]

We are so lucky with our vet practice. The staff turnover is really low and the more junior vets who go on call outs go through everything with a senior vet when they get back to the clinic.

For serious medical problems, a senior vet will always attend if they can and they always try and send the same vet each time so that you get continuity of care.

 

[WindyStacks]

I had a superb "new" vet (less than 12 months qualified). He'd been a mature student and so I'm guessing had some life/experience behind him before re-training. He was thorough and absolutely superb and any time he wasn't sure he called the practice manager (30 years experience and a total nob!). Perhaps his age gave him more confidence than a fresh-out-of-uni 23 year old.

 

[sunnyone]

I asked myself this same question over 20 years ago, after a string of newly qualified vets proved themselves totally incompetent when sent from one very local practise. Then the senior vet decided the junior vets gave him more grief than it was worth so he stopped doing large animals at all. A pity in a way as they stopped stocking wormers etc too.
The next practise was sooo much better as they only use specialists or specialists in training, on horses. They still send me out quarterly newsletters to e even though I am now in France where vet choice is even more limited than in the UK.

 

[Biglets Mummy]

Interesting to read this thread as not sure it is just the professional skills that need addressing but also the attitude.I have just had a facebook run in with a newbie vet. This young " lady" I have known since she was 16 and I in fact gave her her first job. I was thrilled to watch her train and thought she would make a great vet. Wrong - Her attitude stank - arrogant to the point of dismissive to a horse,dog, cat owner of almost 50 years ( me !!) Totally ignored me when I point blank told her not to put my dads 18 year old cat through any invasive procedures ( he was constipated) and then ( we were fb friends) attacked me in the most appalling way over a post I shared asking vets to scan !! It was a rant about how dare I give the vets more work to do and how hard she worked and how many nights a week she stayed up on call, on and on and on about how hard her work was .....its was incredible....I have saved them all as not sure if I want to take it further with her professional body but if that is the attitude on a new vet 12 months out of training then god help us all. I wouldn't let her near a brick.Also....dont send new vets who are scared of horses....and certainly dont try and charge me for it.Luckliy I have the most amazing vets and I wouldnt be without them.