Vetting conundrum - WWYD?

[Jayzee]

Evening,

In a bit of a conundrum about vetting findings and would really appreciate some opinions. Horse in question is a 7yo ID type unrecorded breeding to be used to event (100s) and hunt in winter, priced in the mid 7k bracket.

Vet was really fab about taking through everything and believes the horse will do the job I would like her for. However he picked up a small splint on each leg (I had seen them in the viewing) and slightly off central right fore, neither of these particularly bother me. The other thing that was noted was an exaggerated left hind step when moving backwards together with tail hitched to the left in sink with the movement. This concerns me a bit (but vet didn't think that this would affect the horses ability to be used for the purpose). Other issue that does concern me that was noted is there is a slight dip in the left hind when on the soft when trotting (when stood square the left side of the sacrum is slightly lower).To my mind this looks like a very mild lameness, possibly a strength and straightness issue?. I have had a issues with horses being unsound behind previously as so this does concern me. After exercise the horse was re-flexed and trotted up, with no reaction to flexions either time they were performed. There was less left drop after exercise too. The vets thought were this is likely to be a strength issue and the horse needs to do straightness training and be fittened up.

My question is am I be neurotic (I really don't want another disaster)? The horse ticks all the boxes on the ridden front for me and temperament wise. On paper the horse has essentially passed however I could see the dipping. Would love some opinions, my mind is going round in circles!!

Thanks you!

 

[Flicker]

I would be having a very frank conversation with the vet about what you’ve seen and be specific about your concerns. And if you still have doubts, walk away. You won’t enjoy him with nagging doubts in your mind.

 

[Red-1]

If you can see it and you are worried, then I would walk away as you will always be able to see it, and will therefore likely not enjoy your new horse.

Also, if the vet mentioned it, the back legs will likely not be insured.

 

[oldie48]

Really tricky! I completely trust my vet, he's very thorough but also quite pragmatic. He's also an equine specialist at a big equine hospital so does loads of vettings and sees loads of horses. I don't know how much you trust your vet but if mine said OK for the job, I'd go with him. |It would also depend as Red-1 has said what he has put on the vetting report!

 

[Carrottom]

Does the seller have any comments to make on the vet findings?
Do you have a trusted physiotherapist who could offer you some advice if the seller would agree. I agree with others that this would niggle me if I didn't know the cause.

 

[Jayzee]

Thank you very much for replies!

Really tricky! I completely trust my vet, he's very thorough but also quite pragmatic. He's also an equine specialist at a big equine hospital so does loads of vettings and sees loads of horses. I don't know how much you trust your vet but if mine said OK for the job, I'd go with him. |It would also depend as Red-1 has said what he has put on the vetting report!

- I do trust the vet, he's very well respected and a partner of a well respected referral vet but as others have said I have seen it and probably can't just forget about it. He did however say that he has seen horses go round 5* that are worst (but the risk is still there for me on this horse - though I do like her).

Does the seller have any comments to make on the vet findings?
Do you have a trusted physiotherapist who could offer you some advice if the seller would agree. I agree with others that this would niggle me if I didn't know the cause.

Seller didn't say much about it other than she understood I had to get it right. A good physio to look would be great but I can't think of one to the top of my mind.

 

[ycbm]

I would walk away.
.

 

[[131452]]

If the left hip dips more than right then this is asymmetrical and therefore the horse is lame.
Having had lameness issues with previous horse myself and with this symptom, this would bother me. I'm surprised your vet isn't concerned over it. If you really want the horse, could you ask the seller to have a chiropractor out (i mean a Dr of Chiropractic, not McTimoney) to see if they can release the pelvis. If this resolves the issue then I'd be fine with that. But otherwise personally I wouldn't.

I'm having a horse vetted on Fri and keep having nightmares about her failing so I know what you're feeling !

 

[Summit]

Sounds like too many niggles for £7k

 

[ihatework]

Well in the strictest sense of the word the horse is lame. The vet will likely have to comment on the findings and therefore if you want to insure you should expect exclusions.

There are so many horses like this doing superb jobs up and down the country. Sometimes riders are aware, sometimes they aren’t.

But there is the gamble for you!
Would I buy? I don’t know, it would depend how much I liked the horse and whether I could afford to loose the purchase price. I’d certainly practice my haggling skills.

 

[[131452]]

Just read your post again and I'm frankly shocked that your vet isn't concerned over the backing up with tail carriage AND the left hip dipping. There is something wrong with the horse's back i suspect. Tbh I would walk away.

 

[Jayzee]

Summit - I think that's the nail on the head if it was 4k I might take the risk and get a good physio on the case

 

[Jayzee]

Just read your post again and I'm frankly shocked that your vet isn't concerned over the backing up with tail carriage AND the left hip dipping. There is something wrong with the horse's back i suspect. Tbh I would walk away.

I have to say I was surprised as I was standing with him in the school and was a little surprised he didn't say that it was not going to be fit for the job. Different case if I want the horse for hacking but for what I want to do the horse will be doing a fair amount of work.

 

[Melody Grey]

Niggles I can live with in my bargain basement £1k or less category.....at £7k I’d want it to be gold plated (or at very least sound)

there are better horses for £7k I think OP.

 

[Jayzee]

Well in the strictest sense of the word the horse is lame. The vet will likely have to comment on the findings and therefore if you want to insure you should expect exclusions.

There are so many horses like this doing superb jobs up and down the country. Sometimes riders are aware, sometimes they aren’t.

But there is the gamble for you!
Would I buy? I don’t know, it would depend how much I liked the horse and whether I could afford to loose the purchase price. I’d certainly practice my haggling skills.

This is the catch point and if you are lucky she might stand up to the work and improve with good strengthening work. Or there is an underlying weakness that is going to cause an issue when put under pressure. Latter scenario with my luck is probably the more likely.

I think I've probably made my mind up to walk away as there is a lot on the line, just very frustrating as I really like the horse and her attitude to the work. Maybe if she would accept a lower offer I could reconsider, not sure how likely that is when the market is so hot atm.

 

[Tiddlypom]

As the owner of a wonky IDx who sailed through a 5 stage vetting, I’d say pass on this one. Or if you have access to a very good chiro vet (I do now, but didn’t then) I’d get their advice first.

Mine would have told me to keep looking...

 

[AmyMay]

If you like the horse that much, and are prepared to take a punt at a lower price put in a very (very) cheeky offer of say £4K?

 

[TotalMadgeness]

I have an IDx which sailed through a 5 stage vetting 6 years ago. A few years later I noticed he was unlevel across his hips plus he was reluctant to go forward; muscle development a bit off and so on. Turned out to be bone spavin and after lots of expensive treatment and rehab his hips are level and his muscles are pretty much even on both sides of his body. So I think some things can be 'fixed' to a certain degree but if I'd had any inkling of what would lie in store for me (and him) at the time of purchase I would not have bought him.

 

[Jayzee]

Thank you all!

I've said no, for that kind of price I need them to sound! As its a lot of money to lose. So slightly frustratingly the hunt is back on..........

 

[[131452]]

Thank you all!

I've said no, for that kind of price I need them to sound! As its a lot of money to lose. So slightly frustratingly the hunt is back on..........

I would also consider who you will use for vettings as this vet didnt seem to either notice or be bothered by the fact that the horse is lame.

 

[AdorableAlice]

The description on the hind limbs matches that of a horse of mine, also 7 (this time). Showed vague lameness last winter, not enough to investigate and was put away to over winter to grow and strengthen (very big horse who is Irish x National Hunt TB). He was a gangly, awkward moose of a horse, really babyish and gormless.

Started him again in Feb 2020 and still an odd step behind which included a string halt type step when backed up or turned about himself. Finally lame enough to refer. He had a huge bone OCD chip in his fetlock that the operating vet thought had been there a good while. The vet said the horse had been very stoic to have not shown us more discomfort than he did.

It has been really interesting watching the horse recover. His quarters have changed shape completely as has his neck. Pre diagnosis his quarters were almost wasting and his shoulders were developing quickly and getting loaded. The underside of his neck was bulging, the top crest weakening. Hindsight and all that - I realise now he was in pain but not telling us and was using his body in the best way he could to pull himself along rather than push. He got tired very quickly and would rather jog than walk. We are 4 months today post surgery and he is a different horse, still a bit of a moose to look at but all the bits match a lot better now and not such a cut and shunt conformation. He can climb hills in a good walk and is loving his work. There is no insurance left on his hind legs.

I would not buy the horse the OP is describing unless it was considerably cheaper than the advertised price and I was prepared to take a risk.

 

[Jayzee]

AA - your description has some similarities to the horse, larger shoulders weaker topline, interesting how he was compensating! Has made me feel more confident in the decision as was feeling quite deflated as horse had a lovely disposition but it comes down to risk and money at the end of the day. Gut feeling has to have some weight in these decisions.

Does anyone think that symmetrical sound horses exist for £7000 or under (appreciate the market is still pretty hot)?

 

[[131452]]

I'm sure they exist, it's just trying to find them let alone view them!
I've been to view two this month ,both in the 5K region, only to find them lame yet sellers don't seem to notice or care.
The sort of lameness you describe is harder to spot though so it's possible that sellers don't realise that the horse is lame ,not weak or unlevel