Vetting logistics

[stangs]

Before anyone gets excited, I want to be clear that this is a very hypothetical question. But if, hypothetically, I was interested in purchasing a horse with a vet history and who is very likely to have current issues:

a) If you can't attend a vetting and don't have anyone who can attend in your stead - what's the best way of ensuring that everything you're concerned about gets properly assessed?
b) If the seller is willing to send your vet the horse's medical history, how does that work (if you don't have a specific vet that you're regularly in contact with)? Do you just let your practice know that they'll be receiving something and ask someone to call you about it?
c) How far would you ask your vet to travel to attend a vetting, before you start looking at vets in the area?

(And for those who've been keeping up with the thread on a certain chestnut... If you were doing a vetting on him, what would you ask the vet to do? I'm thinking 2 stage with bloods (drug test, full profile, and strangles) and basic neuro exam. Would you bother with x-rays for a horse who'll probably end up a companion?)

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I really wouldn't bother vetting the horse, if it's the one I think you mean. I would just offer the cost of the vetting to the current seller. Then I would ask your own vet to look at him at home.

 

[nutjob]

I have been through this recently so I would say:
a. you are asked when you book the vetting if you have any particular concerns so these get recorded, also if you would like xrays.
b. speak to your proposed vet and ask them to open an account for you in the name of the horse you are proposing to buy and that you are expecting previous history to be sent. NB. If the horse has only been owned by the current owner for a short time then this is likely all you'll get. They may even be registered with 2 vets so serious problems will not be sent.
c. vet practices have a defined area they cover, it's individual to each practice if they will go out of area and how far. eg my own vet said not in the summer when she is busy but prepared to travel further in winter.

I'm not sure why you would bother with a vetting at all if the horse can be seen to have something visibly very wrong, either serious hind end issues or neurological.

 

[SEL]

I've never vetted the sympathy buys - why have a long list of insurance exclusions from the outset?

 

[SpeedyPony]

If it's the horse I'm thinking of, I can't see how he would pass a vetting, so unless there's something they would find that would stop you buying, I wouldn't bother. But then I also wouldn't offer more than meat money to buy, as he looks like he'd be an expensive companion to run even if he can be brought field sound.
That probably sounds a bit brutal, but as mentioned on the other thread, if people can make a profit on broken horses without putting in the time/effort/money to fix them, the cycle is only going to continue. Add to that you can easily spend a couple of thousand treating fixable issues, or thousands on diagnostics to discover a horse is unfixable and I'd say purchase price needs to be in the low 3 figures to make a pity buy a reasonable gamble, even as a companion.

 

[ester]

The seller isn’t really going to have the relevant medical history either since they’ve barely had him

 

[stangs]

Reason for vetting would be that I'd need a vet to come do a strangles test anyway and, at the yard I'm considering keeping him on, they don't have the facilities for a 2 stage. Not intending on insuring as I doubt anyone would be willing to insure him anyway.

 

[Equi]

There is literally zero point vetting that horse. If one was to buy him it is with the knowledge that he has extensive issues and that buying him would mean they need addressed or he needs pts.

A vet will do strangles test without a vetting I would assume. As any vetting would immediately say not fit for purpose.

 

[moosea]

In reality is there anything a vetting would tell you that would stop you buying him?
You know he's broken somewhere, probably multiple broken bits on him.

I'd get my own vet out when the hypothetical chestnut gelding arrived.

Keep us updated.

 

[Birker2020]

I just want to say thank you Stangs for caring enough.

 

[U.N.Owen]

If a vet is there for strangles then I would probably ask for a heart and eye check just to make sure not going to be anything fatal immediately.

 

[Slightlyconfused]

I've never vetted the sympathy buys - why have a long list of insurance exclusions from the outset?

This for all of my horses and they have been about £3,000 and under, just had my vet check eyes, heart and lungs and spent a few months "rehabbing/strenghing" and then get vet back out.

I knew one of mine wouldnt pass vet but was 90% sure he was just weak vet confirmed this when checking the above, 8 months after lots of hacking vet said he would have passed.

 

[Slightlyconfused]

Reason for vetting would be that I'd need a vet to come do a strangles test anyway and, at the yard I'm considering keeping him on, they don't have the facilities for a 2 stage. Not intending on insuring as I doubt anyone would be willing to insure him anyway.

Just do the strangles test, sort hooves, feed and start inhand strenghening and get him looked at in 6 weeks etc for a trot up etc.

If you have a body worker you trust then get them out his first week too, they can assess him and create a rehab plan with you


Edited to add, ask the vet for a trot up and lunge as well and go from there and do the above

 

[Melody Grey]

I wouldn’t vet this horse, but hats off to you for buying/ trying!

I would want to see the horse in the flesh if you haven’t already? Based on the other thread, I’d want to try some ‘at home’ neuro tests just to check you’re not looking at something immediately dangerous or unsafe to travel.

Re: vet notes, I’ve had them sent to my vet for interpretation before which you could of course do, however I think you could just digest those at your leisure for now. It’s handy to know what’s in the past and I think with the amount of passing around, you’re unlikely to get a very full picture anyway.

Fingers crossed for some positivity for you both and looking forward to hopefully hearing some good stories when he’s had a bit of tlc. Good luck, I’m rooting for you!

 

[Glitter's fun]

This for all of my horses and they have been about £3,000 and under, just had my vet check eyes, heart and lungs and spent a few months "rehabbing/strenghing" and then get vet back out.

I knew one of mine wouldnt pass vet but was 90% sure he was just weak vet confirmed this when checking the above, 8 months after lots of hacking vet said he would have passed.

^^^
For a hypothetical pity purchase I would get a local vet to look for anything that would endanger my existing horses or need immediate PTS. You can ask to discuss with the chosen vet before-hand to explain your point of view and what you would consider a fail. You can then discuss again while the vet is at the location, in case any clarification is needed.
In the hypothetical situation where the seller was a low end "Facebook and one field" wannabe dealer, I would let him know in advance that you will be asking the vet to test for pain killers and sedatives. That wouldn't disturb a pro but might cause an amateur to think twice.
Bless you. Good luck.

 

[I'm Dun]

Just do the strangles test, sort hooves, feed and start inhand strenghening and get him looked at in 6 weeks etc for a trot up etc.

If you have a body worker you trust then get them out his first week too, they can assess him and create a rehab plan with you


Edited to add, ask the vet for a trot up and lunge as well and go from there and do the above

He needs a vet out not a body worker, and not for a vetting, but for a lameness exam. I'm very big on body workers, but you really do need a decent lameness work up, with the expectation that you may find something you can't fix. You can't start in hand strengthening with a lame horse.

 

[I'm Dun]

I wouldn't vet, its just chucking money away that can be better spent. But you NEED to view this horse. With this sort of thing you must not ever, ever, ever, EVER trust videos or photos. Get in the car and go and see the horse in the flesh, or send someone you trust. And pay no attention at all to anything the seller says. Let them prattle on, its of no interest, your just there to look at the horse and make a decision.

Where is he? I bet there's someone here would go if you can't. I would if hes my sort of area.

 

[SO1]

Lovely that you care enough to want to make a difference to this particular horse.

Concerns might be sedation which down plays dangerous behaviour that could cause someone a serious injury even handling in hand. If you need a strangles test to responsibly move the horse to a yard then maybe test for sedation but not sure what the turn around time is for these tests.

You might be able to negotiate on price if vet says horse not sound.

If you plan to insure to cover the costs of anything that might be wrong with horse then no vetting as probably won't pass from the videos. If you don't care if horse is lame or not then no point vetting other asking for a quick check to make sure he is well enough to travel.

Maybe check microchip matches passport. Has owner shown copy of passport?

 

[Gloi]

If it's the chestnut it's not easy to do an actual "trot" up if the animal has little natural trot as people getting their horses that do not trot easily found doing endurance until those vets got used to what they were looking at. I had a mare that would not trot in hand or on the lunge though she was sound as a pound.

 

[BronsonNutter]

I'd be really confused if some of these combos of things were booked in as a pre-purchase exam for me. Definitely need to speak to the vet on the phone yourself beforehand to explain the situation!

If you'll be taking on the horse regardless of findings and not requiring a vetting for insurance, then I'd be inclined to not vet beyond a fitness-to-travel kind of check if you are not happy to assess this yourself, but you might find some vets - if it's one that you are not familiar with - are not willing to do this, incase someone mis-construes this as a 'vetting' (I've had this requested of me before then they asked for 'the full report'...), and instead isolate the horse on arrival (as it sounds like it's been somewhere dodgy?) then look at either strangles blood testing after that, or just doing a pouch wash regardless. If the horse is somewhere dodgy where it could currently be picking up strangles I wouldn't trust a blood sample prior to purchase as it takes a few weeks for their antibody levels to rise.

Good luck to you and this (hypothetical) horse.

 

[TPO]

A vetting is a "fit for purpose at this time" examination. So the vet should vet with your purpose in mind.

Lameness examinations, neuro exams etc are all "work ups", not standard settings.

Buying that horse is buying a project. Anyone buying him would be buying him warts and all, then dealing with it methodically once he was home.

He doesn't look sound but many wouldn't presented like him. Dragged about with a bit being pulled through his mouth on uneven ground, not on a straight line or even a circle. Sat on by a complete novice, I don't think any lack of paces or direction is on purpose. Dude acts like he's never seen a horse before let alone tacked one up and sat on it.

My experience of trotters (1!) is that they are even more knackered than ex racers (4). I don't think Max had ever seen a dentist, his mouth was an absolute mess. Transpired he'd been in agony for years with a fracture. His dental surgery with Equine Dental Clinic (highly recommend, they cover the whole UK) was just over 1k. He gets 6mthly checks by them at £110. Prior to that paid ~200 for vet to sedate and have a go before referring.

His vaccinations needed started from scratch, that was a few hundred.

He's previously done a tendon and fractured a pedal bone. That's left him with a very wonky and odd shaped foot. He gets trimmed every 4wks at £40 a pop.

The physio had never seen such bad asymmetry. His left pec (transverse) looks like someone carved a chunk out. Initially he was getting very regular physio. It was time consuming (for my mum) doing all his stretches and rehab groundwork.

We couldn't find anything suitable to help with his proprioception. I think his brain is too far from his feet! Mum's friend made anklets (fetlocklets?) with little wooden blocks to help. They worked really well.

He had "superficial" pain from a badly fitted saddle too. He was headshy, and still has a tenancy to throw it if unsure, and handy at kicking and biting when scared or unsure. That stopped quickly but still wouldn't trust any nuzzling.

From the side he could pass as a fancy pants dressage horse. He is so elevated and engages his core. From behind he looks like a paddle boat

His hocks have been injected by a vet before. There is a strong possibility he's been DIY injected with drugs brought back from Canada.

He has been fine as a light hack but have always been aware of all his issues. He's 14 now and all those chickens are coming home to roost.

I forgot my point and rambled, sorry

I think my point is that the purchase price is just the start. That's without a cost of your time and heart.

A vetting seems pointless. Any vet will stop it as soon as the horse trots up lame. Again, it's not a work up you're paying for.

IMO to take on a horse like the chestnut you have to be prepared for the worst. There isn't much that can't be improved with care.

A vet can run a blood test for doping within 24hrs. I believe strangles takes longer but I can't remember. Its been >10yrs since I've done one.

If I had thr grazing I'd have taken a punt in him. The weather this year has badly affected our grazing, and the reseeding of the balance. If we'd had the usual abundance I'd have had him on an Eric gillies lorry!

With that said he'll either get better with vet attention, hoof care, your care or he won't. So sadly you need to be prepared for the latter situation. If you can do that, like a project and enjoy rehab then why not? Worst case still means the horse has landed in his hooves for however long.

I'm sure my point(s) will come back to me. I think it's basically that a vetting is a waste of money (IMO) and I'd spend that money on a basic vet examination when he got home.

 

[doodle]

I want to be nosey and know which horse we are talking about!

 

[MissMay]

@doodle Follow the thread "can someone please purchase this horse for me (it's called something like that anyway!)

 

[Tiddlypom]

As said by others, a pre purchase vetting is not appropriate for this horse because he’ll fail it from the outset.

Do be prepared, if you do buy him, that it might still prove that he is so fecked up physically and mentally that PTS is the only ethical option left. They can’t all be fixed. Don’t underestimate how much veterinary input can be needed to keep a happy pasture ornament sound enough to be happy.

It is only since I lost my retired junior eventer homebred 13yo earlier this year, to a new and unexpected issue, that I realised what a mental drain it had been to keep her going for the last 6 years since she retired. Plus it did cost many ££££s in on going care.

 

[cauda equina]

If it's the chestnut it's not easy to do an actual "trot" up if the animal has little natural trot as people getting their horses that do not trot easily found doing endurance until those vets got used to what they were looking at. I had a mare that would not trot in hand or on the lunge though she was sound as a pound.

I wonder if he's been doped for the videos?
Didn't an earlier ad say he was bolshy, but in the vids he looks a lamb

 

[scats]

If it’s the horse everyone is talking about, don’t waste your money vetting it. Strangles test if need be but I wouldn’t bother with anything else.

 

[TPO]

I wonder if he's been doped for the videos?
Didn't an earlier ad say he was bolshy, but in the vids he looks a lamb

He could be or "strong" could depend on the experience of the handler.

He might have been bolshy in the first couple of homes but have shut down with changing hands and moving do many times.

Pure speculation on my part but the man in the video doesn't look skilled enough to get doping "just right" for that video. My experience with doped horses (sedative to clip a horse in extreme pain with cellulitis, ACPs for box rested horses (x3) and sedative for procedures, another liveries horse mildly doped for turnout after box rest.) they haven't moved or acted like the horse in the video. I'm far from an expert but my alarm bells aren't ringing for dope.

One of my horses is blood tested regularly and thr lab cost is £88. If strangles is needed and being doped is a concern then easy enough to check and be in thr safe side.

I'd be more interested to see the vet bill that thr seller offered to show IrishMilo

 

[sollimum]

So I have a good relationship (I hope) with my vets and I would honestly ring and chat it through with them? Is it a feasible distance for them to travel (would be ideal) and what I was hoping to achieve from the vetting. I have had ponies vetted so that I know what I am dealing with. If it is close enough for ours vet to vet , I would have seen it first though.

Would anything you are told in the vetting change your mind though? I would think you need to see the horse and check it is safe to travel? Is he going to a livery yard and can you keep him in isolation? Will need teeth, fecs, feet sorted and vet check once home and this may take time to sort. Is his skin clear of ringworm, sarcoids etc and if not are you happy to deal with this.

 

[tda]

If he has been bouncing around various dealers for the last few months, what vet history are you going to be given?
Agree with others just buy it if you want to

 

[TPO]

As for your actual logistics question, I've viewed the horses but not been present for their vettings due to distance. Both times used an unknown to me vet.

If using a transport company to lift the horse I'd send them pictures to make sure they get given the right horse