Vetting on a youngster?

[mhound]

Call it bad luck but I feel like I've been surrounded by broken horses in the past few years, if I've not owned them I have been friends with people who have owned them. I've also seen them get passed around dishonestly by people I feel are generally good people which means I have little to no faith in the whole selling system. I'm currently on a much needed horse break but will be looking at buying a unbroken youngster (from weaning to 3 yr old). Its not something I've previously considered due to the work involved but I'm so scared of buying someone else's problems, however I now have my own place so I'm in a better position to do so. My question is regards to vetting a youngster. How does it work? obviously said horse could not be ridden but would you still consider things like X rays/heart for example? I'm looking to spend around 7k and hope for the horse to be my very last. Totally understand accidents can happen all through its life but given yourself the best chance from the go is a good thing right?

 

[splashgirl45]

I only got heart and eyes checked when I bought my 15 month old filly..not sure how much more you would need with a 3 year old , I suppose they could be trotted up or lightly lunged to check for soundness..

 

[Goldenstar]

You can usually do a two stage type vetting .
You just have to understand it’s limitations .
Insurance is a issue on a 7k horse and I would understand what your insurer requires before hand.
When I bought at three years I simply told the vet I did not want the horses lunged or chased about because I not want them stressed about it.
there’s no point IMO starting with a blank canvas that has an uncomfortable experience at the vetting .

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

I’d two stage if a lot of money. You may have to drop the price to 5k for the insurance though if they won’t accept a 2stage

 

[eggs]

A two stage vetting is often done for youngsters. Depending on the value you may also need to get x-rays either for insurance of your own peace of mind.

However, just a word of caution - over the years I have very sadly lost three horses at 3 years old, all for different reasons. A well known breeder once told me that you should expect to lose 25% of your youngsters before they get to 4 years old.

 

[Maryann]

Call it bad luck but I feel like I've been surrounded by broken horses in the past few years, if I've not owned them I have been friends with people who have owned them. I've also seen them get passed around dishonestly by people I feel are generally good people which means I have little to no faith in the whole selling system. I'm currently on a much needed horse break but will be looking at buying a unbroken youngster (from weaning to 3 yr old). Its not something I've previously considered due to the work involved but I'm so scared of buying someone else's problems, however I now have my own place so I'm in a better position to do so. My question is regards to vetting a youngster. How does it work? obviously said horse could not be ridden but would you still consider things like X rays/heart for example? I'm looking to spend around 7k and hope for the horse to be my very last. Totally understand accidents can happen all through its life but given yourself the best chance from the go is a good thing right?

I have just agreed to buy, subject to vetting, an unhandled 4 year old from a breeder. My farrier says the legs and feet are on properly and I have asked for a vet to look at eyes and heart. I have BHS Gold membership but won't be insuring him. The breeder keeps his horses in small herds and they are not overfed. He told me he doesn't allow his horses to have flexion tests and doesn't beleive in breaking them in early. This horse is out of a very good tempered mare who is a full brother of a good driving horse that stayed sound.
My plan is to get him used to being handled over the winter and then send him away to be backed and ridden away. It seems less risky than the classifieds and I am not quite ready to hang my boots up yet. I have just retired a wonderful horse bought from a classified advert with an injury from an accident that I don't think would have happened had he not been terrorised at some point.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I had a 2 stage vetting for Arabi when he was 2.

 

[tda]

I have just sold a 3yr old, and she was I suppose 2 stage vetted, all over hands check, heart, lungs, eyes, visual teeth check, gentle flexion on all four legs, trot up the drive and back. Blood was taken too

 

[IrishMilo]

Depending on what you want it for I'd get X rays of hocks, back, neck, and eyes checked.

 

[Birker2020]

Xrays are a waste of time in my opinion.
My physio has said that you can xray 10 horses, 8 could show changes, and only 1 could be in pain or affected by what is seen on xrays.
So they are very subjective.

I know someone who wouldn't dream of buying a horse until she'd had all its legs, and back xrayed but she has lots of money so can afford to do so.

 

[Landcruiser]

One insurer asked for 5 stage vetting when I was buying my 2 yr old. Needless to say I didn't go down that route. My vet was happy to do a 2 stage, trot up but no lunging. Max £5000 with SEIB.

 

[BronsonNutter]

As a vet, I don't think I've failed any youngster at a five stage vetting than had passed at the second stage - so I'm not convinced doing a five stage is any more beneficial in unbacked youngsters than a two stage. A two stage will check for the things that the seller might not know about (heart murmurs, eye conditions etc) as well as general conformation/soundness.

I do however recommend insuring them so that if any problems occur when they get into work you are covered (plus youngsters like to try and hurt themselves!). Xrays of joints to check for OCD, bone cysts etc may be wise (or requested by the insurance) but if the horse is affordable and there are no 'suspiciously puffy' joints on the vetting then I personally wouldn't (but would insure), however thats a very individual thing and it depends on your view of risk. Perhaps if you were buying a breed more prone to osteochondrosis (e.g. WB) then that might make you more likely to xray. It's no guarantee of future soundness but might rule some out. I'd be skeptical of the reliability of xraying youngsters backs.

 

[mhound]

Thanks everyone. Lots to consider. I didn't even think of insurance implications for over 5k. I said around 7k as I thought it partially realistic for a nice sporty type allrounder to make 16.2hh. Prices are all over the place at the moment! I would not consider not insuring due to the amount insurance has paid out for my animals over the last few years, there is just no way I would have been able to afford it without, despite premiums being pretty high! I'm hoping having my own place will counteract the cost of insurance.

 

[mhound]

As a vet, I don't think I've failed any youngster at a five stage vetting than had passed at the second stage - so I'm not convinced doing a five stage is any more beneficial in unbacked youngsters than a two stage. A two stage will check for the things that the seller might not know about (heart murmurs, eye conditions etc) as well as general conformation/soundness.

I do however recommend insuring them so that if any problems occur when they get into work you are covered (plus youngsters like to try and hurt themselves!). Xrays of joints to check for OCD, bone cysts etc may be wise (or requested by the insurance) but if the horse is affordable and there are no 'suspiciously puffy' joints on the vetting then I personally wouldn't (but would insure), however thats a very individual thing and it depends on your view of risk. Perhaps if you were buying a breed more prone to osteochondrosis (e.g. WB) then that might make you more likely to xray. It's no guarantee of future soundness but might rule some out. I'd be skeptical of the reliability of xraying youngsters backs.

Between my last 2 horses and my current dog insurance has paid out 26k so for me, its the only way. My one TB would have been PTS without it. I understand why some people choose not too but ive had to much bad luck for it not to be an option. Thanks for the tips.

 

[mhound]

A two stage vetting is often done for youngsters. Depending on the value you may also need to get x-rays either for insurance of your own peace of mind.

However, just a word of caution - over the years I have very sadly lost three horses at 3 years old, all for different reasons. A well known breeder once told me that you should expect to lose 25% of your youngsters before they get to 4 years old.

Oh no! Im sorry to hear that. I suppose in reality anything can happen at any point, I just want to try to mitigate any future mental trauma (mine)

 

[mhound]

I’d two stage if a lot of money. You may have to drop the price to 5k for the insurance though if they won’t accept a 2stage

Would there be a genuine reason why a seller would not accept a 2 stage do you think?

 

[ihatework]

I got an orthopaedic vet I trusted to go have a look. Not a formal vetting, but I wanted a second pair of eyes to evaluate an expensive yearling before I bought.

My main interest was their opinion on joints, limb balance, movement biomechanics. I didn’t X-ray or flex but did use someone with a very good eye and would have xrayed if they were suspicious. While they were there they did basic eye/heart check too.

 

[Birker2020]

I do however recommend insuring them so that if any problems occur when they get into work you are covered (plus youngsters like to try and hurt themselves!). Xrays of joints to check for OCD, bone cysts etc may be wise (or requested by the insurance) but if the horse is affordable and there are no 'suspiciously puffy' joints on the vetting then I personally wouldn't (but would insure), however thats a very individual thing and it depends on your view of risk. Perhaps if you were buying a breed more prone to osteochondrosis (e.g. WB) then that might make you more likely to xray. It's no guarantee of future soundness but might rule some out. I'd be skeptical of the reliability of xraying youngsters backs.

Do you agree that xrays can highlight issues that don't actually cause or are likely to cause problems.
Or would you say (in your experience) that if an issue is identified on xray it is highly likely to cause problems down the line?
I've often wondered.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

Mine is insured at £7k but don't have LOU as don't want to pay £70pcm+ for it. They wanted the 2 stage, accepted that the vet wrote unhandled on it and so some bits were skipped.
3yo unbacked, not done a lot, bought unseen from Adam Ferris in NI.
Agria do a really good lifetime insurance which is well worth checking out.

 

[mhound]

Mine is insured at £7k but don't have LOU as don't want to pay £70pcm+ for it. They wanted the 2 stage, accepted that the vet wrote unhandled on it and so some bits were skipped.
3yo unbacked, not done a lot, bought unseen from Adam Ferris in NI.
Agria do a really good lifetime insurance which is well worth checking out.

This is about how much i was looking at paying so thanks. Ill check out the insurance company as well. Mine was pretty good to pay out but £75 a month without LOU!

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

This is about how much i was looking at paying so thanks. Ill check out the insurance company as well. Mine was pretty good to pay out but £75 a month without LOU!

This is £22.50 which will also cover backing and breaking in the activity level. I have £3k cover per year but there are two more tiers for £6k and £10k cover, I will probably up my cover once he is being backed. All excess is 25% which may seem high but I didn't think was the end of the world.

 

[mhound]

This is £22.50 which will also cover backing and breaking in the activity level. I have £3k cover per year but there are two more tiers for £6k and £10k cover, I will probably up my cover once he is being backed. All excess is 25% which may seem high but I didn't think was the end of the world.

That's really reasonable. I think mine was 17% but Id rather 17% of a 10k bill than 10k haha.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

Would there be a genuine reason why a seller would not accept a 2 stage do you think?

I can’t think of one other than it would pick something up. I mean a two stage isn’t invasive.