Vetting this morning - horse failed :(

Ceifer

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Ok so maybe a bit hasty. Put it this way. Can you afford to buy said horse and then retire it if it all goes wrong? Could you live with the fact that if you but it and it's not sound, would it be in pain being Ridden?
 

wilkinson1

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The horse is actually being sold on the owners behalf - they are happy to give me a weeks trial which I believe are their standard terms.
 

Stary

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I would walk away. If the horse is sound in a week then I would always have a doubt/worry Id made the wrong decision, especially when or if the horse went lame.

A 5 stage vetting is no guarantee of soundness in future but a vetting failure due to lameness is a guarantee of a lame horse that day.

Some horses do pass! it is hard to walk away especially if you really click (I still have the 'what if' for a horse I walked away from) but I feel it's best to start with a sound horse especially as things can go wrong so easily! (Ive walked away from 2 failed vettings and 1 horse I brought w/o vetting was pts 3 years later due to lameness (which may or may not have been picked up at a vetting....) sorry to be cynical
 

wilkinson1

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I would walk away. If the horse is sound in a week then I would always have a doubt/worry Id made the wrong decision, especially when or if the horse went lame.

A 5 stage vetting is no guarantee of soundness in future but a vetting failure due to lameness is a guarantee of a lame horse that day.

Some horses do pass! it is hard to walk away especially if you really click (I still have the 'what if' for a horse I walked away from) but I feel it's best to start with a sound horse especially as things can go wrong so easily! (Ive walked away from 2 failed vettings and 1 horse I brought w/o vetting was pts 3 years later due to lameness (which may or may not have been picked up at a vetting....) sorry to be cynical

Don't be sorry - that's why I am on here asking for peoples honest opinions - I don't want to romanticise it and waste a load of money, time and complete heart ache (I get hideously attached to my horses unfortunately)

I bought my last horse without a vetting (a good 12 yrs ago now) and he only lasted 2 yrs in ridden work before I had to retire him for 7 yrs before PTS. His problems would have been picked up in a vetting and I kick myself now for being so stupid - although I don't regret having the honour of having him for a second - he was the kindest, loveliest horse. My other horse was 5 star vetted when purchased (20 yrs back) but had continual foot problems and coffin joint problems throughout his life.

Why on earth do I want to buy another horse :(
 

be positive

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This is going to make you all say that I should absolutely walk away now but the current owner has only had her 6 weeks too. I know I know I know :(

This throws up more questions, did they get her vetted? have you seen the certificate if they did? what is the reason for selling such a nice horse so quickly? have you asked if you can speak to her previous owners?

The failure in itself would not put me off completely I have sold enough to know these things do happen and have had a few fail then pass in similar situations that I know went on to remain fine, I have bought a failure that passed with flying colours at a later date but someone selling so quickly would ring more alarm bells than being a bit unlevel on a circle in a set of shoes that may have been on for 8 weeks or possibly longer would.
 

wilkinson1

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This throws up more questions, did they get her vetted? have you seen the certificate if they did? what is the reason for selling such a nice horse so quickly? have you asked if you can speak to her previous owners?

The failure in itself would not put me off completely I have sold enough to know these things do happen and have had a few fail then pass in similar situations that I know went on to remain fine, I have bought a failure that passed with flying colours at a later date but someone selling so quickly would ring more alarm bells than being a bit unlevel on a circle in a set of shoes that may have been on for 8 weeks or possibly longer would.

I called the current owners and they said that she came over from Ireland in May to the sales (I'm assuming somewhere like Brightwells) and a lady bought her to bring on. Then they bought her 6 weeks ago to hunt but then 2 weeks later were given the hunt masters horse that they had had their eye on for a while. Her husband wouldn't allow her to have both apparently. Neither her or the previous owner details are listed in the passport so I can't contact the previous. Current owner said she didn't have her vetted. I was worried about this past (I'm very wary of sellers anyway unfortunately) but because I like her so much I kind of reassured myself that it would be ok - she seems very genuine and I wasn't worried about medical issues until the failed vetting.
 

turnbuckle

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What's your sense of the owners? The better horse offered story sounds a bit odd, but you never know. Is the hrose way cheaper than you would expect? Bit of an alarm bell if it is.

Would the insurers take it on with exclusions on that leg?

What's the vets view?
 

minimex2

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See if the owner will pay for xrays - after all its in their interest to go to good home ? - if it was mine id want to know.

Just to add - my boy would pass 5 stage vetting but has 18 bilaterial foot issues! - only found out from something else. vets cant believe how well he looks (on outside)

only thing conclusive would be xrays/mri's but dependent on age something would show up that might never cause any probs
 

Irish gal

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Look up the sales catalogue she was in for sales. Google her breeding and it should come up with some trawling. She would have had a vet cert from sales. Tbh it's a weird, unlikely story. Irish owned horses go to the Irish sales - they're not sent to Brightwells.

Anyway, I think you should run a mile. there's plenty of sound, problem free horses out there to buy. Don't buy a problem as the old saying goes.
 

Goldenstar

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I am with IG run away fast this is not a good cv for a horse to have .
It's one thing to forgive a failure in a horse were you know where it's from but when horses are going multiple homes and being sold by third parties run .
 

MrsNorris

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I am with IG run away fast this is not a good cv for a horse to have .
It's one thing to forgive a failure in a horse were you know where it's from but when horses are going multiple homes and being sold by third parties run .

Absolutely this, it's hard, but you must let your head rule your heart.
 

Drzoidberg2

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Tbh it's a weird, unlikely story. Irish owned horses go to the Irish sales - they're not sent to Brightwells.

Anyway, I think you should run a mile. there's plenty of sound, problem free horses out there to buy. Don't buy a problem as the old saying goes.

Just to throw a spanner in the works, anything with good hunting experience in Ireland will often sell to the UK, I had a mare that I wouldn't have sold in Ireland that went for more than what I paid in the UK as she was a nice tidy hunter. She didn't have enough experience to sell as a schoolmaster in Ireland, where you pay a fortune for a schoolmaster or buy green cheap as chips, but she sold well in the UK as the market is different. Back in May the exchange rate was good for Irish sellers in the UK.

That being said, two homes since May and looking for a third would put me off, never mind failing a vetting...
 

Irish gal

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I'll bet you didn't send her to the sales Droitzberg? And if you did that's unusual. The vast majority of our horses sell to the UK, but they are bought here. The Op said her horse was sent by owners to the sales. Not many owners do that as its €350 to send a horse over and the same back if it doesn't sell, before you even get into entry fees. In contrast with vet certs, entry, diesel you can go to Gorresbridge or Cavan for €300 and come home again if you're not happy with the price.

People sometimes send to a producers yard in the UK to be sold out of, that's quite different to a big outlay on an English sale for a non racehorse. That's why I find the story suspect.
 

Drzoidberg2

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I'll bet you didn't send her to the sales Droitzberg? And if you did that's unusual. The vast majority of our horses sell to the UK, but they are bought here. The Op said her horse was sent by owners to the sales. Not many owners do that as its €350 to send a horse over and the same back if it doesn't sell, before you even get into entry fees. In contrast with vet certs, entry, diesel you can go to Gorresbridge or Cavan for €300 and come home again if you're not happy with the price.

People sometimes send to a producers yard in the UK to be sold out of, that's quite different to a big outlay on an English sale for a non racehorse. That's why I find the story suspect.

Yep, she sold through a sale. She was small, a utility type, pretty but was never going to jump 1:40 or do grand prix dressage, and extremely green outside of hunting. She wouldn't have sold for any money in Cavan or goresbridge. Just to note she had been to goresbridge and didn't sell, clean vet cert and all.

There's a market in the UK that just doesn't exist in Ireland for that type. There was a lorry going over so costs were split and it wasn't hugely more expensive than a trip to goresbridge with a sale pretty much gaurenteed.

Like I said there's enough flags on this horse for me to think the op should walk but I just dont think it coming from Ireland to a sale is a major one! I know a few people who do it regularly enough when overstocked and looking to sell hunters in particular. Back in the day when the exchange rate worked very well in their favour it was worth the cost as the Hunter types have to be pretty special to sell for any money here...
 

Irish gal

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Yep, she sold through a sale. She was small, a utility type, pretty but was never going to jump 1:40 or do grand prix dressage, and extremely green outside of hunting. She wouldn't have sold for any money in Cavan or goresbridge. Just to note she had been to goresbridge and didn't sell, clean vet cert and all.

There's a market in the UK that just doesn't exist in Ireland for that type. There was a lorry going over so costs were split and it wasn't hugely more expensive than a trip to goresbridge with a sale pretty much gaurenteed.

Like I said there's enough flags on this horse for me to think the op should walk but I just dont think it coming from Ireland to a sale is a major one! I know a few people who do it regularly enough when overstocked and looking to sell hunters in particular. Back in the day when the exchange rate worked very well in their favour it was worth the cost as the Hunter types have to be pretty special to sell for any money here...

That worked out well for you so but it's a different matter when you have a lorry going and you're not footing the bill over and back with a transporter. And then if you were unlucky enough to be one of the first into the sales ring in the morning with few buyers and the prospect of bringing the horse home again...

There's a bouyant market in the UK alright - bound to be with 1.3m riders; contrast that with ourselves and it's half the population of the whole country, practically. Increasingly British amateurs are happy to travel here, even novices, at least that's what I find as an agent. And they're happy to buy quality horses - quality sells itself - whether that's hunters, show horses, eventers or nice all-rounders. And thanks to cheap flights it's now extremely easy to get here. The Ryanair seat sale has flights from all parts of the UK for £15 right now, so really it's never been easier for buyers to come.

And they are so relieved usually, after travelling the length and breath of the UK to see one horse, to actually see a selection of quality horses. Producers also tell me, that they're finding many more individual British buyers are coming to see their horses, so it seems to be a trend that's on the rise. Which is of course great news for the Irish horse.

Not much help to the OP though, but I still think you've had a lucky escape. You just got a bit invested in the horse too soon - there are thousands more sound ones out there so keep looking. The right one will turn up:)
 

splashgirl45

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a word of warning, my horse was fine after flexion tests, sound when ridden in circles on a grass surface but not sound being lunged on a hard surface. her feet were long and my vet said he thought they were unbalanced and she would probably be ok once shod properly...i was looking for a happy hacker so decided to take the chance as i didnt have much money and she was a reasonable price. i hacked, did fun rides and some dressage for about 7 years and i noticed she was wearing her toes down...she had soft tissue damage in both front feet and was ok on soft ground and flat surfaces but as soon as the ground got hard i couldnt ride her...so i only rode in the winter for the next 8 years, i still loved her and lost her in sept age 25 due to cushings....in hindsight i shouldnt have let my heart rule my head so my advice would be to walk away...
 

wilkinson1

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Thanks guys. She didn't come sound last week after having her feet done and they asked if I would still be interested at a reduced price. I didn't answer as I genuinely dont know what my answer was. Then they called me this week to say she seems sound and did I want to go and lunge her myself to see what I think. Half of people I have asked opinions from have said walk away, and the other half say if I can get her for a reduced price then I could risk it and get her x rayed etc to see what I'm dealing with. My head says walk away but my heart still says what if I can't find anything else that I click with like I did her? I have tried 2 x others this week that should have been ideal but I just didn't feel anything - not the 'wow I love this horse' feeling 😕 I'm getting myself in a right tizz about this now 😢
 

Melody Grey

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Thanks guys. She didn't come sound last week after having her feet done and they asked if I would still be interested at a reduced price. I didn't answer as I genuinely dont know what my answer was. Then they called me this week to say she seems sound and did I want to go and lunge her myself to see what I think. Half of people I have asked opinions from have said walk away, and the other half say if I can get her for a reduced price then I could risk it and get her x rayed etc to see what I'm dealing with. My head says walk away but my heart still says what if I can't find anything else that I click with like I did her? I have tried 2 x others this week that should have been ideal but I just didn't feel anything - not the 'wow I love this horse' feeling �� I'm getting myself in a right tizz about this now ��

Sorry, haven't read the whole thread. What do you want her for and is it more/ less than she's doing now?

What difference has the shoeing made?

Are you preparared to retire/ face a tough decision if she doesn't come good?
 

be positive

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Thanks guys. She didn't come sound last week after having her feet done and they asked if I would still be interested at a reduced price. I didn't answer as I genuinely dont know what my answer was. Then they called me this week to say she seems sound and did I want to go and lunge her myself to see what I think. Half of people I have asked opinions from have said walk away, and the other half say if I can get her for a reduced price then I could risk it and get her x rayed etc to see what I'm dealing with. My head says walk away but my heart still says what if I can't find anything else that I click with like I did her? I have tried 2 x others this week that should have been ideal but I just didn't feel anything - not the 'wow I love this horse' feeling �� I'm getting myself in a right tizz about this now ��

The problem with buying even for a reduced price is that you will have to cover any investigations yourself, xrays may show nothing, she may be fine for a while but if it is soft tissue it may reoccur and you would have to MRI to see what is going on, I think there is more to this than they are letting on and it could cost you a fortune and serious heartbreak if she is not right, lunging her yourself is not a veterinary opinion, you will have no idea whether she has been put on bute to get her sound and absolutely no comeback if you do go ahead.

The only way I would take her, and you may find the owner is willing in the circumstances, would be a months trial with a vetting at the end IF she remains sound for the whole time doing the job you want her for, the owners would be saving livery for the period, if they keep her and she failed another vetting they will struggle to sell for decent money, it could be the ideal way out for them with little risk.
 

wilkinson1

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Sorry, haven't read the whole thread. What do you want her for and is it more/ less than she's doing now?

What difference has the shoeing made?

Are you preparared to retire/ face a tough decision if she doesn't come good?

Hi, I want a general allrounder - safe enough to be around my young children but also perfectly capable of doing rc activities with me with a view to getting out a bit more as time goes on.

At the moment she is just hacking out and has done a few days hunting (she has been on sales livery at a hunt yard for 1 month). I genuinely don't know what she was doing before 😕

I'm well versed in having retired field ornaments (my last 2 were retired for several years before I made the decision to pts) but I kinda hoped I had wiped the slate clean and could actually have just 1 healthy fun and active horse that I could have a long partnership with. I never thought it would be this difficult 😕 I have spent 6 months actively looking without a hint of success until this poppet came along.
 

Irish gal

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The whole reduced price thing is a bit of a non starter IMO. What's cheap about a horse if it goes lame and can't do the job - then it's an expensive field ornament. It's different if a horse has an inconvenient vice but can be trained out of it or it doesn't bother you. But a lame horse is no horse.

I think it might be worth your while going to a big dealers yard where there might be three or four to suit and trying them. Or if your heart is really set on her do as be positive says and take for a months trial, but even then the lameness could re emerge later. There's more to this than meets the eye as evidenced by the number of owners in recent times she's had. Sorry I can't be more positive.
 

TuscanBunnyGirl

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I'm telling myself I should walk away but I can't find anything else suitable and I'm getting frustrated now ��

Doesn't sound like this will be suitable for very long either op I'm really sorry to post a negative one :( I totally know how you feel, however, there are plenty of what you're looking for out there so keep searching. it might take a while buy it'll be worth it.
 
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