Vettings - Pass rate

Flibble

Flibble

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www.annamason-art.co.uk
Now before you tell me the 'Pre-Purchase' examination doesnt do pass or fail its recommendation as suitable for job I know.

I have a vetting booked for Monday and the owner has just phoned me up hysterical because the vet that is coming failed a horse recently and my vet is one and the same. She says he failed a perfectly sound horse.

I thought I was stressy but the lovely owner is worse than me a 100 fold.

So just wondered on what we feel the pass rate is?
 
Only ever remember having 7 horses vetted, and only 1 'failed' as such... so either we have a goof eye and tend to like ones that aren't broken (:p) or it's 6/7 pass rate :)
 
If it was perfectly sound he wouldn't have failed it on soundness? What did he fail it on?

Sorry but if the owner was ringing me in a panic I'd think they were trying to hide something?

I got my mare vetted, the vet found a few things, I still bought her. Vettings for me are just to have an experienced pair of eyes look over the horse and tell me what's what, because I can only see lameness if its obvious. Doesn't mean I won't buy the horse unless its 100% in every way.
 
My best pony ever "failed" as "not suitable for one day eventing or competitive jumping". We bought him anyway. Had him for 20 years and he jumped 15hh WHP tracks at BSPS/PUK/County and was on the PC Area Eventing team more years than I can remember.

My view for what it's worth is try not to worry until the vet has been out, easier said than done but I appreciate that's not easy to do if the owner is in a flap - are you going to be there to watch?
 
LouS said:
If it was perfectly sound he wouldn't have failed it on soundness? What did he fail it on?

Sorry but if the owner was ringing me in a panic I'd think they were trying to hide something?

I got my mare vetted, the vet found a few things, I still bought her. Vettings for me are just to have an experienced pair of eyes look over the horse and tell me what's what, because I can only see lameness if its obvious. Doesn't mean I won't buy the horse unless its 100% in every way.
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This my view as well it's a snapshot of the horse on the day and it stops you being caught out awful things you can't see say a bad heart or eye sight problems.
The more I am paying the less tolerant I am of problems .
However I don't insure my horses it's more difficult for a buyer who wants to insure to buy a horse that has issues noted on the vets cert.
OP get the vetting done the seller may just be a worrier but just because a vet has failed a horse recently that your seller has ' heard' was sound means nothing horses can fail for all sorts of things.
Good luck when the vetting comes make sure it got a decent set of shoes on a common cause of unnecessary failures long feet worn out shoes making the horse unlevel in the lunging on the hard bit of the vetting if the horse is uncomfortable it's not the vets job to guess if it's the shoes or not.
 
If you can go to the vetting it will help, if the horse has any issues you can discuss it at the time with more clarity than in a phone conversation after the event. Vets do not fail a sound horse but may have different views on how they interpret the flexion tests, usually the main source of disagreement, if you are there you can be more involved.
I have sold ones that have "failed" and also purchased failures on flexion, that went on to be completely sound.
When selling I would say that with the odd re vetting for something that has just occurred such as a bruised foot in one pony, in about 20 vettings over the last few years I have had only 1 fail and that was vetted while away on trial it came back with a sore stifle and was lame for some time.
 
Just to say my friend was advised not to buy her horse as a 4yo for show jumping, its now 6yo and out jumping foxhunter and they've got several people trying to buy it for silly money (its not for sale!) Most people use vettings just to see exactly what they're dealing with and then they can make an informed decision of what to offer etc.

My friend's just sold her lovely 14yo schoolmistress and she came up slightly lame on one of the flexion tests, they still bought her.
 
Flibble said:
Flying solo - well if it will fail she shouldnt say its fine and if it does fail badly I will be glad I had it done.

She didnt offer to let me use her vet so thats a start.
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I actually opted to use my sellers vet :) I looked into it and discovered that they now have to tell you everything they know about the horse, so they gave me a copy of his full medical history - every single thing he'd ever been seen for in the three and a half years she had had him - very reassuring I thought! The vets were very professional and spoke to both of us to check we were happy with this and then photocopied me his file - well worth it for me!
 
I bought a 13 yo hunter for my other half it failed a fetlock flexion at the vetting he had six seasons with him but it was the failed fetlock that ended his career in the end you need to make a judgement based on your own circumstances if a horse fails.
But I knew from the start that I needed to manage that leg with extreme care and OH and the horse had loads of fun in that six seasons.
 
Oh yes I will be there. I am a very stressy person and found myself saying 'Dont worry X it will be fine'.

She is lovely but she is a panicker she is also stressing over a racehorse and having colts castrated. Ho Hum if its meant to be it will.

Meant to say wasnt present for the last vetting of a horse I bought and found out after the event it was lunged instead of ridden I wonder why (not).
 
Flibble said:
Oh yes I will be there. I am a very stressy person and found myself saying 'Dont worry X it will be fine'.

She is lovely but she is a panicker she is also stressing over a racehorse and having colts castrated. Ho Hum if its meant to be it will.

Meant to say wasnt present for the last vetting of a horse I bought and found out after the event it was lunged instead of ridden I wonder why (not).
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They dont need to see them ridden just need the heart and respiration raised sufficently.
 
ghostie said:
I actually opted to use my sellers vet :) I looked into it and discovered that they now have to tell you everything they know about the horse, so they gave me a copy of his full medical history - every single thing he'd ever been seen for in the three and a half years she had had him - very reassuring I thought! The vets were very professional and spoke to both of us to check we were happy with this and then photocopied me his file - well worth it for me!
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I thought you couldn't use the seller's vet - a dealer that I was thinking of buying a horse from used to use several vets locally so that none of them would do vettings on her horses as they were her vet.

If the horse was to fail it would be interesting to have a copy of the horse's medical history to look at - would help the decision..

Both the horses I bought passed vettings and two friend's did too, despite one being lame for two strides after the flexion test. Sensible vet said it wouldn't effect the horse at the level he wanted it for, and was right.
 
Honey08 said:
I thought you couldn't use the seller's vet - a dealer that I was thinking of buying a horse from used to use several vets locally so that none of them would do vettings on her horses as they were her vet.

If the horse was to fail it would be interesting to have a copy of the horse's medical history to look at - would help the decision..

Both the horses I bought passed vettings and two friend's did too, despite one being lame for two strides after the flexion test. Sensible vet said it wouldn't effect the horse at the level he wanted it for, and was right.
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I used the same vets that the sellers used. Allthough they had never been out to the horse in the short space of time that she owned him, they were still reluctant to book the vetting.

I found them to be very professional and helpful with my decision (even though they 'failed' him) I found out he had a cyst in his eye and an irregular heartbeat - I wouldn't have known otherwise.. Neither of which worried the vet - just the fact that he had twisted a shoe and it was digging in his sole! :eek: Silly woman 'forgot' to tell me to cancel vet while the shoe got sorted!

I think many vets will 'fail' on little things just so that they don't get any comebacks from buyers that have bought horses and had problems afterwards.
 
Honey08 said:
I thought you couldn't use the seller's vet - a dealer that I was thinking of buying a horse from used to use several vets locally so that none of them would do vettings on her horses as they were her vet.

If the horse was to fail it would be interesting to have a copy of the horse's medical history to look at - would help the decision..

Both the horses I bought passed vettings and two friend's did too, despite one being lame for two strides after the flexion test. Sensible vet said it wouldn't effect the horse at the level he wanted it for, and was right.
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You can, it's just that a lot of vets won't do the vetting unless the seller consents because they are now legally required to tell you what they know about the horse's history, and they feel it is difficult professionally to do this without the sellers' consent. This article in HH confirms the position re disclosure:

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/397/308207.html

When I called the vet they said they would have to speak to my seller to confirm they were happy first because there was medical history that they wanted to disclose to me and wouldn't do the vetting if they couldn't disclose it. Hmmm, I'm explaining this really badly....
 
Only ever had one failure, owner was livid but I paid for the vets experience. The 1st pony we ever purchased was slightly lame after flexion but sound within a few strides and he said that if you did that to the majority of his wifes eventer would be just the same, he was never ever sick or sorry. He had students with him on the day and told them that our pony (rags) had the best back end you would ever hope to see on a pony - very proud mummy!
 
Rosie041390 said:
I used the same vets that the sellers used. Allthough they had never been out to the horse in the short space of time that she owned him, they were still reluctant to book the vetting.

I found them to be very professional and helpful with my decision (even though they 'failed' him) I found out he had a cyst in his eye and an irregular heartbeat - I wouldn't have known otherwise.. Neither of which worried the vet - just the fact that he had twisted a shoe and it was digging in his sole! :eek: Silly woman 'forgot' to tell me to cancel vet while the shoe got sorted!

I think many vets will 'fail' on little things just so that they don't get any comebacks from buyers that have bought horses and had problems afterwards.
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I think many horses do fail for little things but remember it not the vets job to diagnose during a vetting a horse may fail say a flexion test because of a transient problem but it's not the buyers vet job to work that out they are looking on the day.
 
A vet is only there to advise, you don't have to take his/her advice. I tend not to bother with vettings if the horse is a cheapy (the only horse I've ever bought with a completely clean vet cert was a dead loss within 8 months), and I've really, honestly never had a lame horse. I had one I was selling "fail" on a heart murmur; he was bought anyway and finally died 11 years later of something completely unrelated after a long, successful competition career.
 
Just don't be influenced into using a different vet and if the vet does "fail" it and the owner thinks its unfair, go with the vet and walk away.

I tell receptionists before any vettings, any ifs, buts, or not sures, and I want to be contacted to discuss it and if that doesn't happen I want the vetting stopped because I'm only interested in buying a completely right horse.

I had one horse vetted once after having told the vet I wanted the vetting stopped or phoning if the vet found any concerns, I heard nothing until the next day so I was optimistic that it passed. Nope, I got a full report of how it had a sore leg on an old injury and a sore back in the stable, a "slightly shortened step" on the trot up on the same sore leg and it was more marked when the horse was ridden but its respiration and heart rate were fine. I went absolutely ape on the phone! The horse had a sore back, a sore leg and was lame on the trot up but they did the full five stage anyway without even a phone call, and this was a vetting for a young endurance horse.

If you can go it is worth it but if not (and I rarely can, they're always hours away) tell them to update you on any concerns while its taking place.
 
I think if your a dealer and your only getting a 50/50 pass rate you need a very strong pair of glasses as you obviously have a terrible eye for a horse!!! The only thing mine ever fail on is things you can't see, i.e heart and eyes, and if I'm buying an expensive horse to sell on at a later date I will have eyes and heart done by my own vet before purchase. I pride my self on being able to spot lameness (often better than a lot of vets) so none of ours should fail on that, unless vet does a very bad flexion test that is!
 
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